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question about low sec exploration.

Author
tempus deathbringer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-11-03 12:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: tempus deathbringer
Good morning pilots,

After my various trips here i've decided on low sec exploration while i look for a corp that suits me. I would obviously start in high sec while i get the hang of it.

I've read the guides , and alot is still unclear for me.

I was hoping someone could look at my skill sheet -

http://eveboard.com/pilot/tempus_deathbringer and point in the right direction for skills here. I think i have the basics. I'd like some suggestions on advancing it though.

My second question or questions is ships. I've read that having a scanning ship isn't good for exploration and you need somethign that can fight too.

What ship do u recommend to get going and what fitting. I have read various things and with my budget low now i dont want to be stuck in something i can't afford to lose or something wrong altogether.

I also have an alt that i resubbed,

http://eveboard.com/taconight

I can use this for the rats or what not , really unsure how it would work.

so a quick tldr:

could someone with knowledge of dangerous exploration kinda help me out here , with skill planning , starting in high sec moving to low sec, ship and fit suggestions.

thank you,
-tempus
Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
#2 - 2011-11-03 14:08:45 UTC
It all depends where you want to look for those exploration sites.

Looking at your skills I'd suggest getting that Gallente cruiser to 5 for and ishtar, as it's a nice sentry drone boat, and has enought slots for all the exploration gear (codebreaker, analyzer, salvager, probe launcher).

Since you don't really use the turret slots on an ishtar you can fit a cloak to help you when you need to hide.

Other good option for low sec exploration sites would be a myrmidon, which has simmilar advantages as the ishtar, just with a bit less drones. It's also a bit heavier, so it's easier to catch in gate camps.

As for the skills I'd suggest gettiong the astrometric branch to at least 4.
tempus deathbringer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-11-03 14:38:59 UTC
well , with alot of the skills required, im looking at sitting in a hangar for another couple months waiting on skills, which is what i wanted to avoid.

so, it seems obvious i should start in high sec exploration.

any reccomendations on that route while i work up to ishtar?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2011-11-03 15:07:39 UTC
Bah, don't let the "I can't do anything because I'm training skills" thinking get to you, you can always do stuff while you're training.

And as to what to use in highsec while training Cruiser 5, if you have Gal Frig 5, the Ishkur (Ishtar's baby brother) is excellent at exploring, it's my main ship at the moment. If you don't have Gal Frig 5, the Worm might be a good substitute. Both of those should be great in highsec.

Also, if you want something even closer to the Ishtar, the Gila is extremely similar to the Ishtar (the differences are that the Gila only shield tanks instead of being able to armor tank too and the Gila uses missiles as a secondary weapon instead of hybrids).
tempus deathbringer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-03 15:11:45 UTC
i can fly the t2 frig :)

can you throw me a sample exploration loadout if you wouldnt mind. I can research it i guess but i trust experience over google.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-03 15:26:30 UTC
About exloration in general, outside highsec your exploration ship has to be able to do combat. Even in highsec you can only do salvage/hacking sites without decent combat capability. In other areas even those sites can spawn a significant number of combat ships, so some combat capability is a must for the ship doing the actual sites. Having a dedicated scanning ship isn't a bad idea, since it will make exploring and scanning sites much easier, but it isn't a must. You can also carry two or more fits with your exploration ship. This way you can just dock at a station and change fits as you need and it will help if you can't fit all you think you need at the same time.

As for skills, you just need to be able to scan well and do the combat in the sites. A good scanning ship would help here and it should preferably be one with an in built bonus for scan strength with some scan strength rigs(gravity capacitor upgrade) fitted. Covops ships(Helios for gallente) are really good for this, but a normal ship will also do. Scanning will be harder though and you might not be able to scan the hard sites down at all without good scanning skills in a normal ship, but those sites aren't ones you want to do in a weak ship anyway.

Highsec exploration can be a bit more complex that lowsec exploration and the competition is much more fierce. The reason it's more complex is, that in highsec you have heavy limitations on what ships can access the sites available. Smallest sites accept only frigates, while largest sites can require BC level firepower or tank to easily complete. The thing is that you can't just ignore the smaller sites, since the loot drops and escalations can be just as valuable there as in the larger sites. A cruiser size vessel is propably the best though and a T3 ship is the optimal choice in hichsec. I would favor one over an ishtar, since they are faster at completing the sites and speed is everything in highsec exploration, although Ishtar is a great exploration ship too.

As you are a gallente pilot, I would recommed starting with a vexor at first or even an imicus, if you've just started playing. A vexor is a decent exploration ship and can do almost all sites without an issue, if you are a competent pilot. It might struggle with the harder sites, since it has a weak tank and not that much firepower, but it's a decent starter ship and you can earn the initial investment cost back from a single hacking site. An assault ship or a faction frigate is also a good option in highsec, since they can speedrun most sites and nab all the tasty loot right infront of other people's noses. I wouldn't recommend them for a new explorer though, since you really need to know what you're doing before you get the most out of them and you need to know what sites they simply can't do. On the other hand they are great at doing the easier sites and can easily escape when you find a site that is too hard for them, so they might not be a bad option to start with.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2011-11-03 15:27:20 UTC
Here's what I use:

[Ishkur, Exploring]
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
Damage Control II

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
Codebreaker I

150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Salvager I

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x4

Depending on where you are, you might want to change it up though. I mostly fly in Minmatar space, so I use the shield tank because Angels do lots of Exp damage, I get about 55 DPS tank without any hardeners which is plenty with the speed/sig I have, Angel Vigil room 2 is the only highsec Angel site I can't do (and only because of the webbing towers).

In Gurista or Serpentis space you can get 100-150 DPS tank with this (150 for Guristas), and you can use armor or shield tank just fine. In Sansha/Blood space you'll want to armor tank it (I actually use a Wolf whenever I feel like going to Amarr space, it has a better tank and I don't have to refit).

And if you want more DPS blasters will be better. I have the rails on there because I only really use them to trigger the spawn in Angel Watch without having to launch drones and then pull them back to avoid agro. Since I range/speed tank most stuff, the rails also let me add a bit of extra DPS if I feel like it without charging in to point-blank range (I rarely use them though, I consume less than 1k ammo a month probably, lol).
tempus deathbringer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-03 15:50:39 UTC
right now im docked in jita, i am realizing i probably over did it on the skills as seeing i didnt need everything i started learning.

i have some shield skills but my prior abilities revolved around armor tanking. Should i pack up and move to a different space to begin based on my skillset?

would it be wise to fit a vexor, imicus, ishkur and fit them all to see? i can also fit a few combat ships like my thorax , domi etc. for the combat missions. If i leave the exploration site though will i be able to bookmark it and come back with a combat ship?

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2011-11-03 16:22:43 UTC
To switch the fit I listed to armor tanking for Guristas, all you really need to do is trade a PDS in the lows for a Centii C-Type Small Repper (about 10-15M) and trade the shield booster for a Cap Recharger. That'll get about 130 DPS tank with decent skills, which should be plenty.

And you can fit a probing ship and scan down sites and bookmark them and get a combat ship, but you'll likely end up getting many sites stolen from you while you're going to get your fighting ship (especially in Gurista space). That's why I like the AF, it can get into all sites, has plenty of tank and gank to do pretty much all of them, and you don't have to go get it and haul it 5-20j to the next site you found.

Also, do you have EFT? That's an extremely helpful tool for figuring out how to fit ships. I would definitely recommend plugging any fits you're considering into EFT before buying the parts, to make sure you have the required fitting/cap skills and such.
David Grogan
NerdHerd
The Explicit Alliance
#10 - 2011-11-03 16:33:12 UTC
tempus deathbringer wrote:
Good morning pilots,

After my various trips here i've decided on low sec exploration while i look for a corp that suits me. I would obviously start in high sec while i get the hang of it.

I've read the guides , and alot is still unclear for me.

I was hoping someone could look at my skill sheet -

http://eveboard.com/pilot/tempus_deathbringer and point in the right direction for skills here. I think i have the basics. I'd like some suggestions on advancing it though.

My second question or questions is ships. I've read that having a scanning ship isn't good for exploration and you need somethign that can fight too.

What ship do u recommend to get going and what fitting. I have read various things and with my budget low now i dont want to be stuck in something i can't afford to lose or something wrong altogether.

I also have an alt that i resubbed,

http://eveboard.com/taconight

I can use this for the rats or what not , really unsure how it would work.

so a quick tldr:

could someone with knowledge of dangerous exploration kinda help me out here , with skill planning , starting in high sec moving to low sec, ship and fit suggestions.

thank you,
-tempus



train one toon to run the sites (tengu or loki) train the alt for an iteron 5

the iteron will be your prober/spare ammo holder/ and nice loot collector

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

tempus deathbringer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-03 19:24:11 UTC
i stumbled across this guide

http://explorationalmanac.blogspot.com/

is this a decent way to start if so , im ready to roll tonight :)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#12 - 2011-11-03 19:51:00 UTC
That's not a bad guide. Most of what exploring is is:
Look at map and find some systems you hope will have some stuff
Scan said systems
Run any sites you find

That's about it.

Also, I'd suggest you join the 'Exploration' channel, there are lots of experienced explorers on there that are more than willing to answer questions, it's handy to be able to ask questions in real-time too.
Xi 'xar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-11-03 22:40:53 UTC
The exploration almanac is an excellent guide and has some great tips. +1

Regarding lowsec exploration - Firstly, don't be bogged down by the idea that you can't do anything simply because your skills are "too low". Having had a brief look I would suggest you get all the astrometrics skills up to IV as soon as possible if only because having them at IV will allow you to scan down sites more quickly (I've never been a fan of the scanning minigame). Having good astrometrics skills, sister's probes and gravimetric rigs means you won't struggle for 1/2 an hour getting that radar site from 98 to 100%... Being able to fly a covert ops also really helps as they give a bonus to scan strength.

Secondly, in lowsec being able to scan down a site quickly, reship into something that can deal with the combat aspects of the site, scoop the loot and get out before someone vicious like me finds you is a good thing.

Don't forget your dscanner.

GL and enjoy!

http://herdingwolves.wordpress.com/

Bleys Breighter
DemSal Corporation
DemSal Unlimited
#14 - 2011-11-04 06:06:08 UTC
tempus deathbringer wrote:
well , with alot of the skills required, im looking at sitting in a hangar for another couple months waiting on skills, which is what i wanted to avoid.

so, it seems obvious i should start in high sec exploration.

any reccomendations on that route while i work up to ishtar?


The simple answer is the Vexor. Many people like to fly much more expensive ships for exploration be it a HAC, Recon, faction cruiser, or T3 strategic cruiser. These are much much more then you require, especially as a rookie.

Make your mistakes on something cheap. You will likely lose ships to pirates, sites, fitting mistakes, mechanics you did not understand... and so on. Why would you want to make these cheap lessons expensive?

1. Fly only what you can afford to replace.
2. Practice and make mistakes on cheaper versions of a ship.
3. Use the cheapest ship that can EFFECTIVELY do a task, to minimize loss potential.

(People do not use Machariels or Nightmares for suicide ganks in highsec.)
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#15 - 2011-11-04 07:04:26 UTC
I used a Arbitrator for months to explore (fitted with everything from cloak, scan, hack, analyze and salvage) and using the drones for damage and a armor tank. It works fine. You should be able to do exactly the same with a vexor.
Nefrin Maldoes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-11-04 11:33:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nefrin Maldoes
I vote for either the vexor or the arbitrator if you want to get into lowsec exploration right away (which you can do easily).

For long term goals, I have been using a Pilgrim and haven't looked back (this is for Ladar combat, Mag, and Radar sites only, maybe some low level complexes if you are careful).

However, this fit needs a lot of skills (cloaking to 5, recon to 5, max support skills, etc). Doing this from memory at work so bear with me:

Highs:
Covert Cloak
Tractor
Salvager II
Core probe launcher

Mids:
10mn AB II
Codebreaker II
Analyzer II
Cap rechargers

Lows:
1600mm Meta 4 plate
EANM II's
DCU II
Medium Armor Repper II

Rigs:
Medium Scan Rigs

Use whatever drones are good for your region. The Ishtar would be just as effective (more so with expanded drone bay) but the warp while cloaked fits my style. The downside is that with this fit you can't use DSP's (since you need an expanded probe launcher) but the benefit is you can stay out for as long as you want before having to dock up again*.

Some advice for the new explorer: If you are looking to stay out in space without having to dock up, use small cargo containers in your cargo hold to expand your carrying capacity as much as possible. For the Pilgrim, you can get an extra 60m3 of space, which is a lot of salvage and invention materials.

*This is dependent upon what type of loot you pick up from sites. If you steer clear of large volume items, weeks out in space is easy to do.

I got a like? When did this happen?

tempus deathbringer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-11-04 13:51:34 UTC
thank you guys for all the help, and the help in game.

last night i got in , i renewed my alt so i had an extra 300mil in the my wallet on my alt. My alt just salvaged behind me before and reprocessed the stuff i found.

so i grabbed a few vexors, a few imicus and a ishkur frig as well (for when im a bit better at the ded's).

i took the time to learn some scanning, following the guides, i was doing it in high sec first. i didnt find anything but it was fun nonetheless i think this is going to be down my alley.

I basically flew from system to system just getting familiar with scanning, there's alot ot digets about being a successful explorer. I can see myself in the same boat as i was before with level 4's though. So my goal is about a month in high sec learning and mastering exploration.

I see myself getting bored just doing the pve side, so after i feel a bit comfortable or i see the boredom set in , im going to start running my vexors to low/null sec.

i did train up quit ea few skills and my exploration , astrometrics skills need some love. i really want to get in the more dangerous side of exploration. I'd love to find that nice site, with some great loot, get jumped and be able to fight my way out of it, or die trying.

i met some people helping me get my skills up to incursion readiness too. So, between the two im going full speed. I havent had much space time , putting it all together has been hurting my brain.

i read that my ishkur is probably the best high sec exploration ship that i can run, is this a fair statement or should i just do it in my imicus? i read that most of the high sec stuff is frig only.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#18 - 2011-11-04 15:06:21 UTC
tempus deathbringer wrote:
i read that my ishkur is probably the best high sec exploration ship that i can run, is this a fair statement or should i just do it in my imicus? i read that most of the high sec stuff is frig only.


In my opinion, the Ishkur is one of the better exploration frigs. With the Ishkur vs the Imicus it comes down to tank/gank vs probing bonus. The Imicus might be better when you're inexperienced at probing, due to the bonus, but it will have serious problems with the combat sites in both tank and gank. Once you're skilled enough (RL and SP) not to need the Imicus' probing bonus, the Ishkur will work extremely well because you can run many more sites in it.

And don't get discouraged if it takes you a bit of time to find stuff. Exploration is like that, you either wander around getting nothing, get a trickle of ISK, or find a massive jackpot. Personally, that's part of the attraction to me, the "who knows what I'm getting today".
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-11-12 20:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
In my time I've spent quite a good time doing sites in low sec.

I've found myself nice quiet constellation, got scanning ship and a drake and hawk (assault frigate) for actual sites and started playing.

First i scanned few systems each way from my staging system and booked all interesting sites (both radar and magnetos, and even some combat sites)

+ there where some 1/10 (or was it 2/10?) nearby so checked them too to see if those are cleared or not.

than used my drake to clear or radar/magneto/etc and later used hawk to clear static complexes.

In a bad day i got nothing
in a good day i netted 200 mil (mostly on radar sites)

usually i got around 30-80 mil per day, depending on local competition - where A DAY is something around 1-2 hours (will be longer without good scanning skills and a t2 scanner like buzzard) where most of that time is scanning and 20 minutes is actual cleaning of sites.

Now there are some important stuff - drake need one thing: stabs, two of them, this allow you to escape most tacklers + MWD to run between radar/magneto cans

Other than that You just run with buffer tank and a load of missiles :) Those sites are a breeze


All of the above can be done in a t3 ship, fitted for probing, it is much faster that way (excluding 1/10 sites, only frigs allowed)

EDIT: a COVERT Scanning T3, forgot to add that covert part