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Jump clones and Attribute Implants
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-30 05:33:29 UTC
Ok, so i'm not sure how many ppl will disagree with this, but here it goes.

Would it be fair to remove that allowance of the installation of attribute implants on jump clones and instead just be based off the attr. implants on your primary clone?

The reason why I think of this is because attribute implants don't actually effect game play in a way that requires balancing.

I do, however, realize that this would not work for skill implants, as they boost the character in combat, and the skill implants on one clone may be different from another clone based on what they're used for.

With Attribute implants, the ultimate goal is to buy +5s so that your training faster.
However, if you're a pvp player who spends their time in low or null sec then odds are you don't have +5's on that jump clone.

Now, considering this, is it fair that low/null/wh players lose out on training time based on what side of eve they choose to be involved in?

I don't think so.

High sec players and high sec jump clones of some players are the only ones with +5 attribute implants because unless you're wealthy in low/null/wh then you're not willing to risk the loss of over 500 mil worth of implants.

So again, because you're choosing to go into low/null/wh and want to reduce the amount of isk you lose when podded, then you're forced to fly with +3 implants or lower if anything at all.

So again I say, how is this fair?

Pure high sec players have very little risk to losing their attribute implants, if any at all.

So I say, only one clone should retain the attribute implants, but the bonuses should carry over to the jump clones.

Again, this can't be done with skill implants because they effect combat, and combat should only be effected by readily available items.( which is why I feel that command ships should be limited in range, but that's another topic.)

Attribute implants are similar to the noctis.
It doesn't actually effect interaction with other players, so the noctis can be overpowered, as long as everyone is able to attain it.
The same goes for attribute implants. They don't effect player interaction, so having to buy them for each individual clone isn't necessary, and it is something that is attainable by all players.

So again, make attribute implants only required to be implanted on one jump clone and the other jump clones receive the bonuses so that all players have the opportunity to have +5 without having to put in more risks on them than other players.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-10-30 05:57:44 UTC
Simply put, not really a good idea. First, you're completely forgetting about the pirate implants, which are no small deal. Second, as with most things, to wear implants or not is a tactical decision; do you choose to fight in your +5s and hope not to get podded or do you lose a day of +5 training time?

What you're proposing would also end up with everyone in Eve buying one set of +5s and never losing them, they'd just park their +5 clone and always use another one to do everything in while keeping the faster training time. This would lead to a MASSIVE deflation in the implant market, since there'd never be a need to re-buy implants, you'd just park your training clone in a station and never use it except to upgrade your implants as you can afford.

The system as-is actually already works quite well, it forces people to make risk/reward choices, which is a central theme to Eve.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-30 06:37:57 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Simply put, not really a good idea. First, you're completely forgetting about the pirate implants, which are no small deal. Second, as with most things, to wear implants or not is a tactical decision; do you choose to fight in your +5s and hope not to get podded or do you lose a day of +5 training time?

What you're proposing would also end up with everyone in Eve buying one set of +5s and never losing them, they'd just park their +5 clone and always use another one to do everything in while keeping the faster training time. This would lead to a MASSIVE deflation in the implant market, since there'd never be a need to re-buy implants, you'd just park your training clone in a station and never use it except to upgrade your implants as you can afford.

The system as-is actually already works quite well, it forces people to make risk/reward choices, which is a central theme to Eve.

I forgot to consider pirate implants

So in that respect this wont work.

Scrap the idea.......
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2011-10-30 15:43:45 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

I forgot to consider pirate implants

So in that respect this wont work.

Scrap the idea.......


I have to say, you just gained a ton of respect from me right there. I think you're the first person I've ever seen on here that had the wisdom to admit that their idea wouldn't work when a fundamental flaw was pointed out. Compared to most other posts where the OP clings to their idea after 20 people have pointed out how gamebreaking it would be. Kudos to you sir.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-10-30 16:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
mxzf wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

I forgot to consider pirate implants

So in that respect this wont work.

Scrap the idea.......


I have to say, you just gained a ton of respect from me right there. I think you're the first person I've ever seen on here that had the wisdom to admit that their idea wouldn't work when a fundamental flaw was pointed out. Compared to most other posts where the OP clings to their idea after 20 people have pointed out how gamebreaking it would be. Kudos to you sir.



Yeah, truthfully though, there is one way around it, but it would also negate the purpose of having pirate implants.

The only way around it would be to allow the other clones to still have the + attribute amount from the implants, but not receive the other bonuses from the implants.

However, they would still retain the option to put new implants on the other clones.

One clone having +5 and one clone having pirates. So again, the idea still wouldn't work out that well.

As far as my giving up ideas when someone points out a fundamental flaw. That I will do.

However, with certain ideas I have posted, if someone points out a flaw that I can alter my idea and get around the flaw, then I will do so.

This, however, is not one of the flaws that can be worked around, so I will gladly throw the idea away.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-10-30 18:30:36 UTC
POS fuels to raise +attributes. Pick a station, maintain the fuel levels like the skill que once a week. Huge isk sink. Low cost week to week, same cost in the long run as a +5 (or just buy a +5 and use them for nearly 2 years like my main has Roll). No fear of loosing expensive implants and loosing out on training time. More people venture into lowsec, maybe loose ships more often and help correct that mineral basket. Less feeling of risk, more feeling of reward just going out there.

But what ever, never heard any feed back about the idea when I mention it. Still stagnant economy and its somehow the carebears fault. Lets not forget that the more aggresive basement rats are at fault as well as they just pop the ship, the pod, and whinebitching on the forums he has no targets after awhile because humans learn to avoid inconviences to them. Yeah, its the highsec dwellers fault you just go all out Roll
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2011-10-30 20:00:28 UTC
The problem with that, Aqriue, is that that's not an ISK sink, that's just redistributing the ISK from people who want to train skills into the hands of people making PI goods and mining ice. It also forces everyone in Eve to maintain a POS, which is really stupid, the POS system is troublesome enough already.
David Xavier
The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought
#8 - 2011-10-30 20:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: David Xavier
I would rather like the + attribute modifiers from implants removed. This would lead to some headache as people would have to be compensated with raising the base attributes but it would grant people some freedom.

About the ISK sink, more high sec dwellers would dare to go into low sec and would enjoy fighting if they get into one and loose some ships along with it, without worrying about what is plugged into their heads.

I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-10-31 00:18:59 UTC
I'm not fond of the idea.. but I'm not going to argue it based on your post.. I'm simply going to ask.. what would be the lore basis for this change?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-10-31 10:08:50 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
I'm not fond of the idea.. but I'm not going to argue it based on your post.. I'm simply going to ask.. what would be the lore basis for this change?


Well, even though we've kinda already scrapped the idea.

The lore behind it is that you always have one clone that you consider to be YOU.

The pilots, though immortal, would feel the need to claim one of their bodies as their primary body.
There real body.

Any other clone is simply a travel point for the ease of life, and can be thrown away at any point in time, but your main body is the one you hold onto to feel human.

So essentially, every other clone is a less version of you. It shares you mental stasis.

You are essentially alway wired to your main body for the sake of holding on to morality.

So you can still receive your bonuses from your attribute implants, because they are possessed in the part of your mind that you are always connected to.

The part of your mind that make you who you are.

Your Perception
Your Memory
Your Willpower
Your Intelligence
And Your Charisma

These are all traits that make you.
When you apply attribute enhancers you're connecting them to this part of the brain effecting who you are.

So every time you jump into a different clone your are essentially leaving behind part of what makes you who you are.

So in not staying connected to this part of your brain, you're losing yourself.

There is no will to survive if you don't know who you are.

The only way to know who you are is to leave your mind connected to these key parts of yourself.


So we could possibly even go far enough as to say that there's a risk of one of these implants being destroyed if you're podded in a none primary clone, unless that clone has it's own attribute enhancers.

Is that decent? Even though we've scrapped the idea.