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What keeps this game interesting?

Author
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#1 - 2013-07-27 05:33:40 UTC
What is there to do in this game that is interesting and keeps you playing? I've been playing for a month and tried what seems like everything there is to offer. Lvl 3 security missions are a joke and slightly more dangerous then mining, sometimes you gotta shoot the guy webbing you sometimes you gotta press the e key (keep distance from) when taking too much damage. Null sec exploration is free money when you learn to get past these eve veterans that are complete trash at setting up blockades. Faction war is a waiting period until you can match the sp levels of these guys rocking atleast twice the damage and hull as you. Wormholes are just an advanced security mission where you gotta spam your dscan. In the past there have been 3 games I've dedicated my time to (World of warcraft, league of legends and socom II) I have been in the top 1% of players in their arenas, so I love every aspect of pvp, but it feels so dry in this game. I've made over a billion isk within my short time playing and am feeling as though this game presents no challenge. I've watched some youtube videos and watched guys clicking all over their screen as they fight other pilots.......Who in the hell clicks in pvp, It's hotkeys and hotkeys only, miliseconds matter, None the less these pilots win battle after battle which tells me this game is really nothing but a "I've got more time invested into skills then you" game.

I really want to enjoy this game. I love the idea of this game, I love space, space ships, pvp, making in game money, challenges and grinds but none of it seems to be keeping my attention. Where is the challenge and where is the fun in this game? What do YOU do that keeps you hooked? As of right now I feel like sitting in a hangar for a few months waiting for reasonable skills to be trained.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-07-27 05:39:11 UTC
Its not a twitch game. Which is both good and bad. Theres real risk, you lose in WoW you really lose nothing. Lose in EvE you feel it. Some like that. Some dont.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3 - 2013-07-27 05:44:41 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
Who in the hell clicks in pvp, It's hotkeys and hotkeys only, miliseconds matter, None the less these pilots win battle after battle which tells me this game is really nothing but a "I've got more time invested into skills then you" game.


EVE's servers run the simulation at 1 Hz. Milliseconds do not matter in the game.

Your conclusion that the game is all about SP does not follow from your premises (especially once you account for the fact that one of your premises is false).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Aliventi
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#4 - 2013-07-27 05:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
Small gang and Solo PvP everyday. You seem competitive. With the smaller scale PVP a single miss-click/key could cost you the fight. Some of the most legendary names in Eve are not industrialist, mission runners, or explorers. The legendary are the leaders of groups and solo/small gang PvPers. They are the elite of this game. Strive to be them.

Edit: Eve is Skill > SP. A two day old frigate with enough skill can kill a 200 mil SP pilot in a BS. That is one of the things that makes Eve better than many games out there.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#5 - 2013-07-27 06:00:34 UTC
I don't feel the sadness from losing isk, I've lost half a billion already from learning. I realize half a billion isn't a lot in the scale of this game but when I've only been playing a month and only made 1bil, it's a hefty amount. Losing 200mil on a run out of nul sec makes me go outside to smoke a cig but after that I just come back and take 400m out in a different way.

I don't care what the servers run on, EVERY pvp game means miliseconds matter. If we are matched equally on every level and I am able to activate what I need to 4 times faster then you then I win... all day, every day.

Small gang pvp. Maybe that is what I'm missing here, a group to talk to while I go through the endless jump after jump of drowsy boredom this has been so far. What are some solid small gang pvp corps?

I want to enjoy this game lol! I love the idea of the game, I just wish I was having more fun and feeling more challenged.
Mr Pragmatic
#6 - 2013-07-27 06:02:31 UTC
Breaks

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2013-07-27 06:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I don't care what the servers run on, EVERY pvp game means miliseconds matter. If we are matched equally on every level and I am able to activate what I need to 4 times faster then you then I win... all day, every day.


The servers only update the simulation once per second (that's 1 Hz). Getting your command in earlier or later in that 1 second interval doesn't affect anything.

You can compare it to a turn based game; finishing your turn quicker doesn't give you an advantage.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Freakdevil
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-27 06:23:21 UTC
Great stock market simulator that plays like Monopoly in space.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#9 - 2013-07-27 06:28:38 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I don't care what the servers run on, EVERY pvp game means miliseconds matter. If we are matched equally on every level and I am able to activate what I need to 4 times faster then you then I win... all day, every day.


The servers only update the simulation once per second (that's 1 Hz). Getting your command in earlier or later in that 1 second interval doesn't affect anything.

You can compare it to a turn based game; finishing your turn quicker doesn't give you an advantage.


I understand what you're saying. What you fail to realize is the art of true pvp. There is a reason no one has heard of you on this game, it's because you aren't good. You will never be a top player because you live off this law of 1hz. It takes you two seconds to target, orbit, and activate your modules, It only takes me one. In a world where we are equally matched in every way, I shaved a second off, I win. You come at my post filled with multiple points and tell me they are all invalid because you believe you are certain about something that you are in fact completely wrong about. Aside from that you really haven't answered the question that is my post.

What keeps YOU interested. So far small gang pvp has struck my interest and is something I haven't tried. What are some GOOD corps that accept new players with my drive to be top tier.
Aliventi
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#10 - 2013-07-27 06:32:43 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
Small gang pvp. Maybe that is what I'm missing here, a group to talk to while I go through the endless jump after jump of drowsy boredom this has been so far. What are some solid small gang pvp corps?

Agony Empire is pretty good with new people. As is Flying Dangerous who used to be good but went :SOV:, Verge of Collapse, Rooks and Kings, Rote Kapelle are excellent but a little more Elite in the ships they fly (Rote slightly less so then the other two). I have heard Hydra Reloaded and Outbreak. are good but have never PvPed against them. Take a look around. Link and Link are recruitment areas for in-game corps/alliances.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#11 - 2013-07-27 06:35:06 UTC
Awesome, thanks for your response Aliventi. I'll have a look around some you have mentioned and see if I can find a good fit.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#12 - 2013-07-27 06:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I understand what you're saying. What you fail to realize is the art of true pvp. There is a reason no one has heard of you on this game, it's because you aren't good. You will never be a top player because you live off this law of 1hz. It takes you two seconds to target, orbit, and activate your modules, It only takes me one. In a world where we are equally matched in every way, I shaved a second off, I win. You come at my post filled with multiple points and tell me they are all invalid because you believe you are certain about something that you are in fact completely wrong about. Aside from that you really haven't answered the question that is my post.

What keeps YOU interested. So far small gang pvp has struck my interest and is something I haven't tried. What are some GOOD corps that accept new players with my drive to be top tier.


Where did I say that full seconds didn't count? You press your buttons at T1+.1s, I press mine at T1+.5s (a Four Hundred ms difference, goll-ee), guess what happens? They all activate at T2.


Anyway, the people I play with keep me interested.

Oh, and I cannot recommend BNI (Brave Newbies) enough. They're a fantastic bunch.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-07-27 06:36:40 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I don't care what the servers run on, EVERY pvp game means miliseconds matter. If we are matched equally on every level and I am able to activate what I need to 4 times faster then you then I win... all day, every day.


The servers only update the simulation once per second (that's 1 Hz). Getting your command in earlier or later in that 1 second interval doesn't affect anything.

You can compare it to a turn based game; finishing your turn quicker doesn't give you an advantage.


Ruby is 100% correct here.

What keeps it interesting for me is Asymetrical warfare at the political block level is fun and interesting. My group within Goonwaffe primarily does cloaked strike and fade warfare in "Enemy space". Doing this for long periods of time can break the morale of a group that you are working on and cause them to either quit their alliance or **** off to safer space.

When the enemy is renaming their jumpbridge towers to "Don't die to the goons" and spies are leaking you screenshots of forums posts where someone rages out and quits the alliance because the alliance can't protect them it has a tangible effect on the continued turnout of that alliance to the field of politics/battle.

In fact it's disproportionate. If you blow up someones fleet battleship they generally get over it fairly quickly. Kill their noctis for the fifth time running while they are attempting to put together enough isk to fit out a new battleship... that's enough to throw them over the edge.

It should be noted that the culture of the group you are working against drastically changes how effective this is. This kind of thing is useless against say... Black Legion who's general culture just lead them to shrug things off. But it's highly effective against someone like say... SCDOT (Before they died) and it's very effective against renter alliances, who only see themselves as semi attached to the group they have glommed SOV off of.
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
#14 - 2013-07-27 06:42:32 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I've been playing for a month and tried what seems like everything there is to offer.
...
Faction war is a waiting period until you can match the sp levels of these guys rocking atleast twice the damage and hull as you.
...
None the less these pilots win battle after battle which tells me this game is really nothing but a "I've got more time invested into skills then you" game.
....
As of right now I feel like sitting in a hangar for a few months waiting for reasonable skills to be trained.


Oh, no, not again this stealth "I need 100 million SP to enjoy EVE" thread. Ugh

And i doubt you tried evreything in EVE in one month: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#15 - 2013-07-27 06:54:47 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I understand what you're saying. What you fail to realize is the art of true pvp. There is a reason no one has heard of you on this game, it's because you aren't good. You will never be a top player because you live off this law of 1hz. It takes you two seconds to target, orbit, and activate your modules, It only takes me one. In a world where we are equally matched in every way, I shaved a second off, I win. You come at my post filled with multiple points and tell me they are all invalid because you believe you are certain about something that you are in fact completely wrong about. Aside from that you really haven't answered the question that is my post.

What keeps YOU interested. So far small gang pvp has struck my interest and is something I haven't tried. What are some GOOD corps that accept new players with my drive to be top tier.


Where did I say that full seconds didn't count? You press your buttons at T1+.1s, I press mine at T1+.5s (a Four Hundred ms difference, goll-ee), guess what happens? They all activate at T2.


Anyway, the people I play with keep me interested.

Oh, and I cannot recommend BNI (Brave Newbies) enough. They're a fantastic bunch.


You're saying that clicking is acceptable, I'm saying it is not. You say it's acceptable because the servers are based off 1 second intervals, I believe that hotkeys get more actions per second and If you get to a point to where you are equally matched with someone and you are doing everything at twice the speed then you will win. Hotkeys bring more then twice the speed, every action is done light years faster then someone navigating click by click across their screen. It may not have as large of an impact as a twitch game but it is certainly an advantage. When dealing with a 30 seconds battle, If someone doing everything with hotkeys can do twice the amount of actions as someone clicking, then there will be an advantage. In a game that can require a month of training to gain a 5% advantage in a skill this should be easy to realize.

Aside from our argument I appreciate you throwing in a tip. I will definitely check out BN. Thank you

Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#16 - 2013-07-27 06:57:22 UTC
Quit playing by yourself
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#17 - 2013-07-27 06:58:56 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I don't care what the servers run on, EVERY pvp game means miliseconds matter. If we are matched equally on every level and I am able to activate what I need to 4 times faster then you then I win... all day, every day.


The servers only update the simulation once per second (that's 1 Hz). Getting your command in earlier or later in that 1 second interval doesn't affect anything.

You can compare it to a turn based game; finishing your turn quicker doesn't give you an advantage.


Ruby is 100% correct here.

What keeps it interesting for me is Asymetrical warfare at the political block level is fun and interesting. My group within Goonwaffe primarily does cloaked strike and fade warfare in "Enemy space". Doing this for long periods of time can break the morale of a group that you are working on and cause them to either quit their alliance or **** off to safer space.

When the enemy is renaming their jumpbridge towers to "Don't die to the goons" and spies are leaking you screenshots of forums posts where someone rages out and quits the alliance because the alliance can't protect them it has a tangible effect on the continued turnout of that alliance to the field of politics/battle.

In fact it's disproportionate. If you blow up someones fleet battleship they generally get over it fairly quickly. Kill their noctis for the fifth time running while they are attempting to put together enough isk to fit out a new battleship... that's enough to throw them over the edge.

It should be noted that the culture of the group you are working against drastically changes how effective this is. This kind of thing is useless against say... Black Legion who's general culture just lead them to shrug things off. But it's highly effective against someone like say... SCDOT (Before they died) and it's very effective against renter alliances, who only see themselves as semi attached to the group they have glommed SOV off of.



Now we are getting somewhere! My favorite part about my first competitive game (socom II) was taking someone out right as the match began and knowing they had to wait 5-10 minutes before they could play again. Do it twice, zomg, three times.... damn near make them want to quit, I love it. I was somewhat disappointed in this game because I expected a lot more. Now i believe I am missing the core aspect... a group of space nerds to blow up other space nerds with. I will certainly look into some of the corps mentioned here and if anyone is reading this and believes I would be a good a fit for your corp please mail in game.
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
#18 - 2013-07-27 07:01:35 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I understand what you're saying. What you fail to realize is the art of true pvp. There is a reason no one has heard of you on this game, it's because you aren't good. You will never be a top player because you live off this law of 1hz. It takes you two seconds to target, orbit, and activate your modules, It only takes me one. In a world where we are equally matched in every way, I shaved a second off, I win. You come at my post filled with multiple points and tell me they are all invalid because you believe you are certain about something that you are in fact completely wrong about. Aside from that you really haven't answered the question that is my post.

What keeps YOU interested. So far small gang pvp has struck my interest and is something I haven't tried. What are some GOOD corps that accept new players with my drive to be top tier.


Where did I say that full seconds didn't count? You press your buttons at T1+.1s, I press mine at T1+.5s (a Four Hundred ms difference, goll-ee), guess what happens? They all activate at T2.


Anyway, the people I play with keep me interested.

Oh, and I cannot recommend BNI (Brave Newbies) enough. They're a fantastic bunch.


You're saying that clicking is acceptable, I'm saying it is not. You say it's acceptable because the servers are based off 1 second intervals, I believe that hotkeys get more actions per second and If you get to a point to where you are equally matched with someone and you are doing everything at twice the speed then you will win. Hotkeys bring more then twice the speed, every action is done light years faster then someone navigating click by click across their screen. It may not have as large of an impact as a twitch game but it is certainly an advantage. When dealing with a 30 seconds battle, If someone doing everything with hotkeys can do twice the amount of actions as someone clicking, then there will be an advantage. In a game that can require a month of training to gain a 5% advantage in a skill this should be easy to realize.

Aside from our argument I appreciate you throwing in a tip. I will definitely check out BN. Thank you



In large fleet battles also TiDi (Time Dilation) ticking in, so everything slows down and the fast clicking and hotkeys doesnt matter at all.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#19 - 2013-07-27 07:05:38 UTC
Vorll Minaaran wrote:
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I've been playing for a month and tried what seems like everything there is to offer.
...
Faction war is a waiting period until you can match the sp levels of these guys rocking atleast twice the damage and hull as you.
...
None the less these pilots win battle after battle which tells me this game is really nothing but a "I've got more time invested into skills then you" game.
....
As of right now I feel like sitting in a hangar for a few months waiting for reasonable skills to be trained.


Oh, no, not again this stealth "I need 100 million SP to enjoy EVE" thread. Ugh

And i doubt you tried evreything in EVE in one month: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg



You people really enjoy taking a fraction out of a post and picking on it. I didn't say i needed a million sp to enjoy eve, I'm saying someone with twice the hull and dps as me isn't really promoting a winnable fight without me having extensive knowledge of the game. Of course I haven't tried everything, I've tried the all of the basics which gives you a solid idea of the advanced and so far they have all been less then challenging.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#20 - 2013-07-27 07:16:09 UTC
[/quote]

In large fleet battles also TiDi (Time Dilation) ticking in, so everything slows down and the fast clicking and hotkeys doesnt matter at all.
[/quote]

We are obviously not going to agree here lol. I have never experienced a game where there isn't an advantage in doing something faster then your opponents and I do not believe that game is this game, nor will it ever exist in anything other then a true turn based game. When speaking of fleet battles I would say my opinion is amplified. Take a mirror fleet with a mirror leader, Let one be bound to clicking and the other to hotkeys. Who will win? If you truly believe that it will be a equal fight then I'm sorry friend.
This game is far from based off mirror engagements but still, an advantage is an advantage. Like I said, in a game where you trains days to months for a 5% bonus, having a 10 to 20 to 100% speed increase in your actions by simply using hotkeys over clicking.. Seems to make sense to me.
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