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Financial Fraud, Cartels, Monopoly, API's and you.

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Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#1 - 2013-07-09 17:52:59 UTC
I have recently been informed that it is standard practice to provide full financial APIs to recruiting corps. I begin to see, now, why it is that so many of the tycoons in this game are capable of amassing such great fortunes. The ability to extort from any prospective member all financial information must be quite the boon to high stakes trading in this game - allowing you to see exatly where there exists any weaknesses and unfilled demands that others have latched upon - and to subsequently eliminate that member's ability to participate in market action.

For myself, it seems, being new to this game, I will be forced to avoid all corp joining which demands API keys of financial information. I am curious if there are any ethical leaders of corps out there who do not require full transaction and wallet info from prospective members.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#2 - 2013-07-09 18:18:41 UTC
I do not think most of the tycoons in game are there because of having corp APIs, many of them run solo :)

For corps that require Full API it is not the full financial API they are specifically after, it is the Full API, which happens to include wallet transactions.

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#3 - 2013-07-09 18:25:54 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
I do not think most of the tycoons in game are there because of having corp APIs, many of them run solo :)

For corps that require Full API it is not the full financial API they are specifically after, it is the Full API, which happens to include wallet transactions.



Well, if they won't take an API without it, clearly they are after the financial API. Sorry, this would be invaluable information to have. I would personally love to pick through successful peoples' financial API's to see what works and where marketing could expand to make money. The markets run a tight ship around here, especially in the hubs, but also many of the adjunct regions. I'm certain not all good work on the market would be attributable to API's, but it's nearly an exploit in its potential.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."

Kithran
#4 - 2013-07-09 18:32:47 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
I do not think most of the tycoons in game are there because of having corp APIs, many of them run solo :)

For corps that require Full API it is not the full financial API they are specifically after, it is the Full API, which happens to include wallet transactions.



Well, if they won't take an API without it, clearly they are after the financial API. Sorry, this would be invaluable information to have. I would personally love to pick through successful peoples' financial API's to see what works and where marketing could expand to make money. The markets run a tight ship around here, especially in the hubs, but also many of the adjunct regions. I'm certain not all good work on the market would be attributable to API's, but it's nearly an exploit in its potential.


They are interested in the financial api but not for the reason you think. Its a security measure - they claim to get their isk from running anomalies in null yet they have income from random people but nothing from concord - they haven't told you the truth.
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#5 - 2013-07-09 18:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhodopsin Pserad
Kithran wrote:
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
I do not think most of the tycoons in game are there because of having corp APIs, many of them run solo :)

For corps that require Full API it is not the full financial API they are specifically after, it is the Full API, which happens to include wallet transactions.



Well, if they won't take an API without it, clearly they are after the financial API. Sorry, this would be invaluable information to have. I would personally love to pick through successful peoples' financial API's to see what works and where marketing could expand to make money. The markets run a tight ship around here, especially in the hubs, but also many of the adjunct regions. I'm certain not all good work on the market would be attributable to API's, but it's nearly an exploit in its potential.


They are interested in the financial api but not for the reason you think. Its a security measure - they claim to get their isk from running anomalies in null yet they have income from random people but nothing from concord - they haven't told you the
truth.


That would be an incredibly stupid use of API financial info... nearly trivial.

Way I see it, if the corp isn't going to hand me a billion in ships, modules, and assets on joining - it's incredibly foolish to just turn over what marke info works for you. I hope most people aren't taken in by this API data mine scheme.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."

Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#6 - 2013-07-09 18:40:56 UTC
A good corp is worth more than your API key.
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-07-09 18:43:20 UTC
Your API would be worse than useless to me. Just sayin'.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#8 - 2013-07-09 18:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
So you tell your corp that you are the only char on your account, and that you have no other alts, and expect them to trust you with that statement?


I dont give out my API key, but thats because I am in a solo corp.

Most traders get little benefit from being in a large corp, unless they are the corp trader and get a cut.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#9 - 2013-07-09 18:46:13 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Your API would be worse than useless to me. Just sayin'.



Mynnna, its a well known fact you are only super rich because of the market secrets you get from new goonies API keys.

Without it, how would you ever be able to tell where the special deals are on the market
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#10 - 2013-07-09 18:58:28 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Your API would be worse than useless to me. Just sayin'.


I'm aware of that, but all economics starts with the base class and primary commodities. In the real world, it's petroleum - in this game - it is primarily the various ores you collect. I'm not familiar enough with the majority of the blueprints to state that Tritatium is the primary guage of market value in this game, but it seems to be a relatively important commodity. I suppose PLEX would have to rank highly as well.

Anyway, my point is, whomever has large sums of money got it, primarily, through trickle up systems; meaning, for every successful member of the market, there's a dozen failed members of the market. Regardless of my very noob status, one doesn't want to risk what keeps one afloat on a nasty cartel unknowingly. And, I'm not oblivious to the fact that some of the prices in various regions can only arise through coordinated and deliberate actions akin to cartel control and not as a result of natural flow of independent agents.

That is mostly my point, if everyone insists that the financial API is useless, but everyone demands it, it's really not. And I don't buy the "it's just to see if you're honest about where you get your money" nonsense - it's more than evident from any particular character's skill set where their primary sources of income reside.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2013-07-09 19:06:22 UTC
Well, you've been told the truth, and you're refusing to believe it. Thread over, right?


For anyone who's a little more open minded:
The big players don't react to the market moving. They move the market. There's risk involved, but that's life.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2013-07-09 19:07:11 UTC
People request "full API" - which is what I have to assume you're talking about when you say "financial API" - because it can reveal links to characters you'd prefer to keep hidden, such as the fact that the character in question is actually a spy that got money from your main on another account.

If people are asking for just your wallet API to apply though, that's odd, but almost certainly not sinister in the way you seem to think.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#13 - 2013-07-09 19:13:56 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Well, you've been told the truth, and you're refusing to believe it. Thread over, right?


For anyone who's a little more open minded:
The big players don't react to the market moving. They move the market. There's risk involved, but that's life.


Big players in real markets don't take risks, they put money on the line when they will win. Gamblers take risks - brokers and investors make moves. The "wall street is a risk" myth is like poker shills who tell the "donks" that's it's a game of chance.

Certainly major market players make mistakes for which there are losses, but, like I said, gamblers and people who wear lucky socks take risks.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-07-09 19:19:52 UTC
Why do you even start a thread if all you have to say is that you know things better than those of us who have actually played the game.

To tell us that full API keys contain financial information? we would never have guessed... Roll

.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#15 - 2013-07-09 19:27:49 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Well, you've been told the truth, and you're refusing to believe it. Thread over, right?


For anyone who's a little more open minded:
The big players don't react to the market moving. They move the market. There's risk involved, but that's life.


Big players in real markets don't take risks, they put money on the line when they will win. Gamblers take risks - brokers and investors make moves. The "wall street is a risk" myth is like poker shills who tell the "donks" that's it's a game of chance.

Certainly major market players make mistakes for which there are losses, but, like I said, gamblers and people who wear lucky socks take risks.


Don't take risks? Interesting. I'm sure that there are some large banks out there who are just amazed that the people who lost them hundreds of millions didn't take risks.

There's no such thing as a sure thing. You can hedge it, but there is always some risk involved.


Of course, what do I know? I'm just an observer who makes stuff. My trades tend to be on sure things. Where the only way to lose isk would be for the price of trit to drop 50%.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#16 - 2013-07-09 19:28:00 UTC
Oh its one of these threads..

Please go on with explaining in here to people that played the game for several years, how you figured out why API keys are making someone rich on your behalf.

Maybe you should have considered making your first post a bit more humble and gain some good advice instead of a troll post that will bring everyone in here with popcorn and canned laughter.

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#17 - 2013-07-09 19:30:46 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Well, you've been told the truth, and you're refusing to believe it. Thread over, right?


For anyone who's a little more open minded:
The big players don't react to the market moving. They move the market. There's risk involved, but that's life.


Big players in real markets don't take risks, they put money on the line when they will win. Gamblers take risks - brokers and investors make moves. The "wall street is a risk" myth is like poker shills who tell the "donks" that's it's a game of chance.

Certainly major market players make mistakes for which there are losses, but, like I said, gamblers and people who wear lucky socks take risks.


Don't take risks? Interesting. I'm sure that there are some large banks out there who are just amazed that the people who lost them hundreds of millions didn't take risks.

There's no such thing as a sure thing. You can hedge it, but there is always some risk involved.


Of course, what do I know? I'm just an observer who makes stuff. My trades tend to be on sure things. Where the only way to lose isk would be for the price of trit to drop 50%.


Clearly, because the fluxuations in the Tritanium market is so extreme that you can make billions just margin trading. The almost constant price of tritanium across most regions is evidence of this.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#18 - 2013-07-09 19:33:27 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Oh its one of these threads..

Please go on with explaining in here to people that played the game for several years, how you figured out why API keys are making someone rich on your behalf.

Maybe you should have considered making your first post a bit more humble and gain some good advice instead of a troll post that will bring everyone in here with popcorn and canned laughter.



One doesn't need to spend a decade playing a game with a player created economy to understand volume and running average prices. If you haven't noticed, there's a years worth of trading information on all commodities. But, yes, I do appreciate the troll reference because part of the reason for making this post was to see how visceral of a reaction I got due to the very obvious exploit of:

data mining API keys.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#19 - 2013-07-09 19:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
Trit

Trit 2

Tell me again about this universal near constant price of trit.


Edited so that both are over the same time period:

Sinq 6 months Moar Trit
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#20 - 2013-07-09 19:37:26 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Oh its one of these threads..

Please go on with explaining in here to people that played the game for several years, how you figured out why API keys are making someone rich on your behalf.

Maybe you should have considered making your first post a bit more humble and gain some good advice instead of a troll post that will bring everyone in here with popcorn and canned laughter.



One doesn't need to spend a decade playing a game with a player created economy to understand volume and running average prices. If you haven't noticed, there's a years worth of trading information on all commodities. But, yes, I do appreciate the troll reference because part of the reason for making this post was to see how visceral of a reaction I got due to the very obvious exploit of:

data mining API keys.


Well maybe more than 12 days would be a good idea.. at least I see you discovered what Tritanium does.. and you have found the BPOs.

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