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log off exploits

First post
Author
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#1 - 2011-10-24 06:04:17 UTC
arent the log off and on for combat exploits? Last i heard log on ambushes or logging off and back on just to avoid being shot at in fleet was an exploit?

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#2 - 2011-10-24 06:24:23 UTC
Nope, logging in to surprise people and logging off to save your ship aren't exploits.
Othran
Route One
#3 - 2011-10-24 07:41:08 UTC
Logon traps haven't been an exploit for years (5+ at least).

Logoffski has never been an exploit.

Logoffski is changing this winter anyway - just keep target aggressed and it'll stay in space.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-10-24 09:13:48 UTC
Agondray wrote:
arent the log off and on for combat exploits? Last i heard log on ambushes or logging off and back on just to avoid being shot at in fleet was an exploit?


if i ever shoot at you, feel free to logoff to avoid dying
Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-24 15:57:36 UTC
Logging off isn't an exploit.

However, there has been talk of making it irrelevant if you log off or not to keep from being killed. aka. If your super is in a fight it's going to live by combat tactics, not by tanking long enough to disappear after logging off.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

"Your Erebus is docked? How did that happen?" "It took a lot of grease and pushing....."
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2011-10-24 18:23:16 UTC
Hello Agondray,

You maybe would be interested in a recent blog from our Developers, describing few of the upcoming Winter 2011 Expansion changes.

Especially the last point might interest you:

Logoff timer
  • After a player logs out, there is a check for player aggression every 15 minutes. If you have been aggressed, the timer extends for 15 minutes; if you have not been aggressed, you disappear as before. Note: this is only for player aggression and will not change what happens when you log off during fights against NPCs.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-24 19:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: SFM Hobb3s
Am I correct to assume that when jumping out of system with player aggression, the aggression timer will clear* as it currently does, allowing the dishonourable to safe and log?

It would be awesome if it didn't, and would provide a suitable mechanic for chasing fools all the way out of our space, instead of having them log off in the next system like they always do.


*edited to change the word from reset to clear to avoid any confusion.
tofucake prime
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-10-24 19:25:08 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Am I correct to assume that when jumping out of system with player aggression, the aggression timer will reset as it currently does, allowing the dishonourable to safe and log?

It would be awesome if it didn't, and would provide a suitable mechanic for chasing fools all the way out of our space, instead of having them log off in the next system like they always do.

You would be wrong.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Reloaded
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#9 - 2011-10-24 22:33:06 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Am I correct to assume that when jumping out of system with player aggression, the aggression timer will clear* as it currently does, allowing the dishonourable to safe and log?

It would be awesome if it didn't, and would provide a suitable mechanic for chasing fools all the way out of our space, instead of having them log off in the next system like they always do.


*edited to change the word from reset to clear to avoid any confusion.


They can spend 15 minutes warping between safes before logging, makes no difference. Once they're off-grid from you with the intent of staying in system, there's not much you'll be able to do to keep aggression on them.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#10 - 2011-10-25 00:59:10 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Am I correct to assume that when jumping out of system with player aggression, the aggression timer will clear* as it currently does, allowing the dishonourable to safe and log?

It would be awesome if it didn't, and would provide a suitable mechanic for chasing fools all the way out of our space, instead of having them log off in the next system like they always do.


*edited to change the word from reset to clear to avoid any confusion.


They can spend 15 minutes warping between safes before logging, makes no difference. Once they're off-grid from you with the intent of staying in system, there's not much you'll be able to do to keep aggression on them.


Actually, Floppie, the anti-logoff measures leave your ship in space and fully targetable for 15 minutes, and if you're shot at, it resets the timer for another 15 minutes.

Jumping out of a system shouldn't clear the countdown, though -- that only makes the Logoffksi a bit more time-consuming to pull and doesn't really solve anything.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Reloaded
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#11 - 2011-10-25 04:32:22 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Actually, Floppie, the anti-logoff measures leave your ship in space and fully targetable for 15 minutes, and if you're shot at, it resets the timer for another 15 minutes.

Jumping out of a system shouldn't clear the countdown, though -- that only makes the Logoffksi a bit more time-consuming to pull and doesn't really solve anything.


The upcoming logoffski nerf will leave your ship in space for 15 minutes IF IT HAS AGGRESSION. After that, it will check every 15 minutes for an aggression timer. Once the timer has expired, the ship will disappear as it does now.

Which is why I said warping between safes for 15 minutes would become the practice. Just bounce around until the timer runs out, then log off and your ship will disappear as normal.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
#12 - 2011-10-25 08:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Joshua Aivoras
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Actually, Floppie, the anti-logoff measures leave your ship in space and fully targetable for 15 minutes, and if you're shot at, it resets the timer for another 15 minutes.

Jumping out of a system shouldn't clear the countdown, though -- that only makes the Logoffksi a bit more time-consuming to pull and doesn't really solve anything.


The upcoming logoffski nerf will leave your ship in space for 15 minutes IF IT HAS AGGRESSION. After that, it will check every 15 minutes for an aggression timer. Once the timer has expired, the ship will disappear as it does now.

Which is why I said warping between safes for 15 minutes would become the practice. Just bounce around until the timer runs out, then log off and your ship will disappear as normal.



My understanding is the logoffski 'nerf' is aimed at Supers, as they can in most situations tank aggression for a long time due to EHP. Hard to see a Super doing that...

95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#13 - 2011-10-25 15:44:42 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Am I correct to assume that when jumping out of system with player aggression, the aggression timer will clear* as it currently does, allowing the dishonourable to safe and log?

It would be awesome if it didn't, and would provide a suitable mechanic for chasing fools all the way out of our space, instead of having them log off in the next system like they always do.


*edited to change the word from reset to clear to avoid any confusion.


I haven't heard anything about this changing.... and would be very surprised if it does (although I think this change would be good).

To clarify.... agression timers are System Specific. So, if you are agressed in System A, and change to System B, and immediately log off (under gate cloak)... You will disappear after 1 minute, because you will NOT have an aggression timer in System B. Additionally, if you quickly head back to System A, you will still have the agression timer in System A until 15 minutes from when you were last agressed in System A.

So... The question the becomes... how do you agress a gate cloaked ship?

Bombs do not work to my knowledge, but smartbombs I believe will work... although surrounding a gate with Smart Bombing BS's is unrealistic. The next question... Will an ECM burst work??? If you put a scrop on the gate that ECM bursts as soon as local goes up... will the gate cloaked ship become effected?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#14 - 2011-10-25 17:32:17 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Actually, Floppie, the anti-logoff measures leave your ship in space and fully targetable for 15 minutes, and if you're shot at, it resets the timer for another 15 minutes.

Jumping out of a system shouldn't clear the countdown, though -- that only makes the Logoffksi a bit more time-consuming to pull and doesn't really solve anything.


The upcoming logoffski nerf will leave your ship in space for 15 minutes IF IT HAS AGGRESSION. After that, it will check every 15 minutes for an aggression timer. Once the timer has expired, the ship will disappear as it does now.

Which is why I said warping between safes for 15 minutes would become the practice. Just bounce around until the timer runs out, then log off and your ship will disappear as normal.


Warping between safes for 15 minutes wouldn't help -- your ship is in space for 15 miinutes after you log off. If someone shoots at you before your timer expires, your ship will be placed on another 15-minute cooldown -- but if you're not, it will despawn your ship.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-10-25 21:52:34 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Warping between safes for 15 minutes wouldn't help -- your ship is in space for 15 miinutes after you log off. If someone shoots at you before your timer expires, your ship will be placed on another 15-minute cooldown -- but if you're not, it will despawn your ship.


That's not how the devs mentioned it would work. The 15 minutes applies only in cases of aggression; logging normally would still have you disappear a short time later.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#16 - 2011-10-25 22:07:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Warping between safes for 15 minutes wouldn't help -- your ship is in space for 15 miinutes after you log off. If someone shoots at you before your timer expires, your ship will be placed on another 15-minute cooldown -- but if you're not, it will despawn your ship.


You're very, very wrong!

All ships despawn after ONE minute unless they CURRENTLY have a specific aggression timer.

Specific Aggression timer 1: You get this because an NPC aggressed you. If you have this aggression timer, your ships takes TWO minutes to despawn. I'm not certain how long this timer is, but after x minutes the aggression timer expires.

Specific Aggressioin timer 2: You get this because a Player or Player controlled object (POS, Bubble, etc) aggressed you or you aggressed another player/player object. If you have this aggression timer, your ship will NOT despawn. This aggression timer expires after FIFTEEN minutes.

So, if you warp between safe spots for over 15 minutes, and stay unaggressed, all your aggression timers will have cleared. This means when you log off, you will despawn after ONE minute.

The upcoming changes apply to Agression Timer 2 only. Currently, aggression timers cannot be renewed once you log off, and hence any aggressed ship will despawn after the 15 minute timer expires. With the changes, your aggression timer can be renewed, so as long as someone keeps shooting or ewaring the ship, it will NOT despawn.

Note: Agression timers are currently System Specific. Meaning if you change to a different system, you can immediately log off without aggression in the new system. I have not heard any plans to change this.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#17 - 2011-10-25 22:44:56 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Note: Agression timers are currently System Specific. Meaning if you change to a different system, you can immediately log off without aggression in the new system. I have not heard any plans to change this.


Has this been tested? Just curious, I've killed ships before that I could have sworn engaged in a fleet battle next door, came into the system where I was, and logged without getting shot by anyone. (not even gate guns or NPC's). I've got no concrete evidence either way so I'd love if someone did.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#18 - 2011-10-25 22:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Note: Agression timers are currently System Specific. Meaning if you change to a different system, you can immediately log off without aggression in the new system. I have not heard any plans to change this.


Has this been tested? Just curious, I've killed ships before that I could have sworn engaged in a fleet battle next door, came into the system where I was, and logged without getting shot by anyone. (not even gate guns or NPC's). I've got no concrete evidence either way so I'd love if someone did.


I used to run a lot of hornet roams, where we would catch a ratter traveling gate-to-gate. We'd tackle the guy on gate, send a dictor and other tackle through to the other side, and then apply enough dps to encourage him through. The ratter always goes through the gate, dictor bubble goes up, and the rest of the gang goes through to greet them. If the ratter new their aggression mechanics, and didn't mind exploiting them, they would simply log off before their gate cloak expired. Then, if we lacked the dps, they would simply despawn after one minute. Some of the most aggrivating missed kills include maruaders, orcas, and freighters. I really hope they make aggression timers follow the pilot into different systems... until then, I'll be happy knowing a tackled carrier wont despawn on me!!!


I can offer one good explantion for the situtation you described, and one stab in the dark.

Known Mechnic. If I aggress in System A, travel to System B, and then come back to System A within the 15 minute agression timer window, I wil still have agression in System A. This is the most likely explanation of your situation.

Stab in the dark: Lagggggg.. In heavy lag situations, EvE's game mechanics malfunction (explained in the time dialation blog). Its possible that lag malfunctions caused the pilot to remain in space much longer than they should have.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#19 - 2011-10-26 15:36:35 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Currently, aggression timers cannot be renewed once you log off, and hence any aggressed ship will despawn after the 15 minute timer expires. With the changes, your aggression timer can be renewed, so as long as someone keeps shooting or ewaring the ship, it will NOT despawn.
.



Uh...no need to shout....I get your point....

Anyway, isn't that what I just finished saying? Your ship will be floating in space for 15 minutes after you log off. If someone shoots at you, it gets reset for another fifteen minutes.

Am I speaking Klingon here, or something?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Psychotic Monk
Arcana Noctis
#20 - 2011-10-26 17:23:18 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Currently, aggression timers cannot be renewed once you log off, and hence any aggressed ship will despawn after the 15 minute timer expires. With the changes, your aggression timer can be renewed, so as long as someone keeps shooting or ewaring the ship, it will NOT despawn.
.



Uh...no need to shout....I get your point....

Anyway, isn't that what I just finished saying? Your ship will be floating in space for 15 minutes after you log off. If someone shoots at you, it gets reset for another fifteen minutes.

Am I speaking Klingon here, or something?



You seem to be asserting that a ship that logs off in space will stay a minimum of 15 minutes no matter what the circumstances.

Which is wrong.
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