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What Exploration Still Needs

First post
Author
XmonkTad
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-06-10 23:37:51 UTC
I love the new hacking minigame. Yes it is luck based, but it is actually the best way to put real exploration into Eve, because for the first time (in my experience) you are delving into the truly unknown. That being said, there are still a few things that need to be done to make the exploration system more robust, and complete.

1) Please fix the Poteque 'Prospector' line (AC-905, HC-905, EV-1005) which still give a cycle time reduction to hacking/analyzing modules which is now a detriment (as all that does is waste cap). If you can't fix them, at least disable the first two so I don't have to break them pulling them out of my head.

2) I see that T3s are never going to get a bonus to virus strength, and that's fine. It makes a lot of sense for balance reasons. However, I think that making spew containers "tractorbeam-able" would be an excellent midpoint, and would have a positive effect on game balance. For starters, exploration T3s would now have a use for that tractor beam bonus the ELA sub gives them. Second, it would discourage T3s from loading up their lows with warp stabs (and their highs with weapons Twisted), as the increased lock time would be a detriment for tractoring the cans in.
From a lore standpoint, if a micro-tractorbeam works, why not a bigger one?

3) The difference between the Salvage Tackle rig (50 calibration for T1, 75 for T2) and the Mimetic Algorithm Bank/Emission Scope Sharpener (200 calibration for T1, 300 for T2) is silly. It makes new players decide between rigs that will help them beat the minigame (with which they are unfamiliar) and rigs which will help them find the minigame (the gravity capacitor upgrade). Additionally, it makes it VERY unlikely that anyone will ever fit the T2 version of the rig, as having 2 T1 rigs gives you more coherence, costs much less, and requires less SP. If the calibration requirements were cut in half, we would see new players in T1 frigats with a 1 grav, 1 mimetic, 1 scope setup while players in T2 ships would probably have something like 1 T2 grav, 1 T2 mimetic.

4) I love the new scanning modules. But they all use midslots. This pretty much makes Buzzard>Anathema for exploration, as two comparably skilled/funded players will now have an advantage based on racial choice. I don't think that professions should have an obvious race advantage one way or the other, and it pretty much tells the Amarr player "you chose wrong." Since the two are so close in terms of number of slots, it would be easy just to make the Scan Acquisition Array be a low slot module; the fitting limit is 1 anyway.

These are really the things that I think would make exploration a little better right now. Thank you CCP for producing an exploration themed expansion, it really needed the overhaul.

PS. I love loot spew, I redact everything horrible I ever said about it. But in the interest of fairness, now apply it to the loot from destroyed ships as well (IE ganked freighters).
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#2 - 2013-06-11 02:21:55 UTC
ELA has virus strenght bonus.
You can use tractor beams with insta lock fit but it's useless because cans disappear too quickly. It worked well during the testing when cans were quicker and took longer to disappear. But it wasn't better. It was the icing on the cake in terms of clunky twitch gameplay.
XmonkTad
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-06-11 05:49:24 UTC
Woops, just checked on the ELA thing. That's very awesome! There goes CCP, making me super happy!
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-06-11 10:28:01 UTC
Your other points make sense though.

BTW isn't it that warpstabs reduce targeting range, but not resolution?
Stampertje'n
V I R I I
#5 - 2013-06-11 12:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Stampertje'n
I was planning to make yet another post about exploration. But not for opinions, just something directly to the devs like hey guys really check this.
But then I saw your post and you already put the effort in it to explain a few of my points so I decided to bump this one.


First off all (AND DEVS THIS IS A MUST MUST MUST DO!!!!!!)

The info on the hacking and archaeology rigs are confusing for new players
Memetic Algoritm Bank => => This ship modification is designed to increase the efficiency of a ship's hacking modules.
Emission Scope Scharpener => This ship modification is designed to increase the efficiency of a ship's analyzer modules.

But you guys changed the names of both modules to analyzer. So I see new players having a wtf moment.


Then next points : (+ possible solution)
  • Activation time of modules
  • Calibration points
  • Acces difficulty bonus
  • Hacking and archaeology implants low bonus


We still get a 5% reduction in cycle time of salvage, hacking and archaeology modules from the Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005 hardwire. This has no longer any use.

Change the implant to 5% reduction in salvage cycle and 5% faster tracking of data containers or that the containers stay 5% longer before they disappear. (This last one is good for the solo explorer)

<==========>


The difference between the Salvage Tackle rig (50 calibration for T1, 75 for T2) and the Mimetic Algorithm Bank/Emission Scope Sharpener (200 calibration for T1, 300 for T2) is silly. It makes new players decide between rigs that will help them beat the minigame (with which they are unfamiliar) and rigs which will help them find the minigame (the gravity capacitor upgrade). Additionally, it makes it VERY unlikely that anyone will ever fit the T2 version of the rig, as having 2 T1 rigs gives you more coherence, costs much less, and requires less SP. If the calibration requirements were cut in half, we would see new players in T1 frigats with a 1 grav, 1 mimetic, 1 scope setup while players in T2 ships would probably have something like 1 T2 grav, 1 T2 mimetic.
(copy paste it from first post, because i couldn't say it any better)

Change the calibration to 150 for T1 and 200 for T2

<==========>


We still get an acces difficulty bonus from the next items in game
- from the skill : hacking & archaeologic
- from the rigs : Memetic Algoritm Bank & Emission Scope Scharpener
- from the hardwires : Poteque 'Prospector' Archaeology AC-905 & Poteque 'Prospector' Hacking HC-905

Just remove that bonus

<==========>


The Poteque 'Prospector' Archaeology AC-905 & Poteque 'Prospector' Hacking HC-905 hardwire only give a +5 bonus to virus coherence. Thats almost no difference for a implant that cost around 30m.

You got a few possibility's here. You can increase the bonus to +10 or change the bonus to +5 to virus coherence and +5 to virus strength.
Or you could change the implants completely that they both work and relic and data analyzer. But the one give +5/+10 bonus to virus coherence and the other gives a +5/+10 bonus to virus strength
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2013-06-11 15:06:35 UTC
Hi there and nice thread start.

Just to give you the heads up that we are aware that the Memetic Algorithm Bank & Emission Scope Sharpener rigs have incorrect descriptions and that the Prospector Implants need updated to reflect Odyssey changes.

We will be fixing these in the near future. :)

Team Genesis

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-06-11 15:14:59 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hi there and nice thread start.

Just to give you the heads up that we are aware that the Memetic Algorithm Bank & Emission Scope Sharpener rigs have incorrect descriptions and that the Prospector Implants need updated to reflect Odyssey changes.

We will be fixing these in the near future. :)

thanks for the fast feedback, we really appreciate it.

I should buy an Ishtar.

MissBee
Flatliners
#8 - 2013-06-11 16:02:59 UTC
My only real grip with exploration at the moment is the sheer number of relic and data sites. I'm aware that people will stop doing the sites when a) the prices hit rock bottom, and b) the fad wears off, but this will still leave us with loads of signatures cluttering up systems. Also, why oh why should T2 rig prices go down so low purely due to an obscene amount of relic sigs - they were priced fine before.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-11 16:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
definitely sort out the rigs calibration cost i managed to fit a hacking rig (memitic) and a probe strength rig on my heron and then had no space left for a 3rd rig.... considering they were only T1 rigs i thought i would be able to fit another rig.

so i didn't even check the calibration cost when buying them as i also bought a 2nd hacking or the relic one not sure now rig assuming i would be able to use it... shakes head at this.. i just sold it instead.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-11 16:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Linna Excel
Remodel the imicus.

And this stuff I posted in another thread:
Quote:
1. Where are all the hacking specific skills and mods? You know, stronger viruses, better attack/defense vs defensive nodes, a skill or mod that increases your virus strength every turn.
2. Where's defensive systems that let everyone know where the node is and that you are hacking it (more for low and null if you failed to hack it or are taking too long)? A failed hack would be a great reason to spawn a few NPCs to put the hurt on the player.
3. Where are skills, ships, or mods that allow you to tracker in more than one container at a time?
4. Where are hacking drones that will hack for you or loot drones that'll take your loot to your hold for you automatically.
5. The Genosis is a big hit, why can't every empire (or ORE) put up a version of it?
6. Why didn't they add more things to do for exploration? Why can't we have new combat sites or ships sending distress calls that you need to rescue or give us a mission from a local corp that pops up when we warp to the area? Why can't we find a site of a recent battle where we can just salvage and loot?
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#11 - 2013-06-11 16:27:31 UTC
MissBee wrote:
My only real grip with exploration at the moment is the sheer number of relic and data sites. I'm aware that people will stop doing the sites when a) the prices hit rock bottom, and b) the fad wears off, but this will still leave us with loads of signatures cluttering up systems. Also, why oh why should T2 rig prices go down so low purely due to an obscene amount of relic sigs - they were priced fine before.



spent 4 hours in null last night, could not find 1 data/relic site. spoke to a goon around NW venal, he said he had only found a couple in a few hours.

also, you say signatures are cluttering up systems? use of the word "cluttering" assumes that these signatures are getting in your way or something? got something else better to use that space for or is this content in your way? lol

signatures = game content

so many people keep saying just put the rats back in the sites, I prefer them back in null because I enjoyed the sites the way they were. I have no problems with the hacking mini-game. Not a fan of loot scattering either. However, if they cannot change anything else, can I please have my rats back in Null?!
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#12 - 2013-06-11 16:29:35 UTC
also, the relic/data sites in WH's still have rats in them. why where they excluded? trying to preserve the integrity of T3 modules and ships? Just curious.

David Laurentson
Laurentson INC
#13 - 2013-06-11 17:03:51 UTC
MissBee wrote:
My only real grip with exploration at the moment is the sheer number of relic and data sites. I'm aware that people will stop doing the sites when a) the prices hit rock bottom, and b) the fad wears off, but this will still leave us with loads of signatures cluttering up systems. Also, why oh why should T2 rig prices go down so low purely due to an obscene amount of relic sigs - they were priced fine before.


The way the code works, when a site is ran it respawns in the same constellation. If people are blitzing them because the new feature is shiny, then you'll see a lot of sites popping in and out. (also, IIRC, they upped the count when they move Gravs to anoms, so as to avoid having 25% fewer things to scan for).

Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
also, the relic/data sites in WH's still have rats in them. why where they excluded? trying to preserve the integrity of T3 modules and ships? Just curious.



They're meant to be harder combat sites where you can also hack, I think. Wormhole Mags/Radars were never really 'about' hacking, just having an extra wave of baddies to explode (and also some cans you can hack if you're bored of violence/baiting some would-be gankers).
Eru GoEller
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-11 18:28:01 UTC
"David Laurentson wrote:

The way the code works, when a site is ran it respawns in the same constellation."

Same constellation? Since when? In the same region is what i noticed, when chasing
around in Amarr space for the monastary
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#15 - 2013-06-11 18:57:28 UTC
+1 coherent well thought out post covering some possibly overlooked mechanics. Good way to add more viability to T3s. Rigs are a great point as well.

Personally, I hate playing loot pinata. I would rather just not. Anything that adds time to a profession where I have to spend hours looking for good sites, play the scanning minigame, and then play the loot minigame... Maybe instead we should just have a bejewelled overlay for people that want to be explorers - we'll throw them some loot every time they make a match. It'll be engaging and epic... I hope I didn't spoil the surprise of any upcoming 'mining' minigames with that.
MissBee
Flatliners
#16 - 2013-06-11 21:00:05 UTC  |  Edited by: MissBee
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
MissBee wrote:
My only real grip with exploration at the moment is the sheer number of relic and data sites. I'm aware that people will stop doing the sites when a) the prices hit rock bottom, and b) the fad wears off, but this will still leave us with loads of signatures cluttering up systems. Also, why oh why should T2 rig prices go down so low purely due to an obscene amount of relic sigs - they were priced fine before.



spent 4 hours in null last night, could not find 1 data/relic site. spoke to a goon around NW venal, he said he had only found a couple in a few hours.

also, you say signatures are cluttering up systems? use of the word "cluttering" assumes that these signatures are getting in your way or something? got something else better to use that space for or is this content in your way? lol

signatures = game content

so many people keep saying just put the rats back in the sites, I prefer them back in null because I enjoyed the sites the way they were. I have no problems with the hacking mini-game. Not a fan of loot scattering either. However, if they cannot change anything else, can I please have my rats back in Null?!


I would imagine in the constellation I reside in (11 systems in Stain) there are at least 15 Data or Relic sites at any one time.

As for your assumption that they're rare, why do you think T2 salvage materials have gone down in price so much if there wasn't more T2 salvage being collected? This is is even more apparent considering the new Capital rigs being introduced and requiring far more materials.

Personally I'd rather see more far combat sites rather than exploration sites (even though I'be made billions from these new sites)
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-06-12 13:34:59 UTC
Also please clear out the 50+ complete trash items that no one wants or even buys from Armor space loot tables.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#18 - 2013-06-13 06:33:21 UTC
MissBee wrote:

I would imagine in the constellation I reside in (11 systems in Stain) there are at least 15 Data or Relic sites at any one time.

As for your assumption that they're rare, why do you think T2 salvage materials have gone down in price so much if there wasn't more T2 salvage being collected? This is is even more apparent considering the new Capital rigs being introduced and requiring far more materials.

Personally I'd rather see more far combat sites rather than exploration sites (even though I'be made billions from these new sites)


I'm pretty sure it just comes down to ease of access and a tonne of people running sites.

Decrytors have dropped by an insane amount (I have some that where 4mil - down to less than 1 mil)

PS, I love the combat sites too. The problem with adding more is that the Loot prices would tank as well.
MissBee
Flatliners
#19 - 2013-06-13 10:03:31 UTC
For a ton of people to be running these sites it must mean that a ton exist to be run. Once a site is run a new one will spawn, yet there must be far more seeded originally in each system to cater for the number of people doing them. I understand that CCP would have done this to make the new content available to as many people as possible, but in doing so, CCP have crashed some pretty healthy markets.

They should really have reduced the salvage drops to keep the markets relatively stable, but added new items in the loot tables to make it worthwhile doing the sites. The CT and CT Module BPC's aren't enough. Maybe for relic sites adding T1 Rig BPO's and data sites adding T2 construction component BPO's?
Meridin Velasces
Caille Insurance
#20 - 2013-06-13 17:03:27 UTC
*sneaksin* As it fits the title. A keyboard shortcut to start a scan would be nice, too. :)
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