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Sonar Probes (Finding Cloaked ships)

Author
Lyell Wolf
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-09 18:57:01 UTC
Basically it's scanner probes that have the ability to scan down cloaked targets. Here's the thoughts behind it...

When someone cloaks they don't suddenly loose all their matter and just disappear, they simply distort it in some fashion to make it invisible. So effectively, sonar pings would still bounce off them as an object in space, just more finely tuned to find only cloaked ships. This would probably work better in the way of helping solve the problem of cloaked campers, who sit in system hours at a time (AFK or not), rather than make cloaking use some type of fuel or energy source. Essentially, give others the ability to dictate how a cloaker effects them.

It could require Astrometrics V
Must be placed in Expanded Probe Launcher
Cloaked signatures are hard to scan down

This will allow us to rid of AFK cloakers, while allowing those who wish to grief systems while still actively online the ability to do so.


This idea is a culmination of ideas from people I've spoken too so I do not take full credit for all expressed ideas and opinions.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-06-09 19:16:03 UTC
Oh, it's this idea AGAIN. That's what, three times this week?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#3 - 2013-06-09 19:17:01 UTC
haha another one.

cloak is fine
Rengerel en Distel
#4 - 2013-06-09 19:22:25 UTC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology

We can already circumvent sonar, think in the time of warp drives, you couldn't?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#5 - 2013-06-09 19:31:19 UTC
The whole point of a cloak is that it bends things: light, sound, rf, ect. around it.... evidently not local chat though.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#6 - 2013-06-09 19:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
You'll be now told how local gives too much intel and how afk cloakers balancing it and are generally harmless.

Honestly, if you come to system for PvP, i dont see any reason to complain if 'carebears' try to scan you to deliver some PvP right to you. If you just sit idle and afk - you have only yourself to blame.
Those that against this idea want no PvP, but easy kills. Shame on them.

Edit: i was a bit late.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations
#7 - 2013-06-09 19:44:59 UTC
Since there isn't a problem, we don't need a solution for it.

Thanks though.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#8 - 2013-06-09 20:31:08 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
The whole point of a cloak is that it bends things: light, sound, rf, ect. around it.... evidently not local chat though.


There's no sound in space.

Hence the tagline for "Alien": "In space, no one can hear you scream".

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#9 - 2013-06-09 21:23:31 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
You'll be now told how local gives too much intel and how afk cloakers balancing it and are generally harmless.

Honestly, if you come to system for PvP, i dont see any reason to complain if 'carebears' try to scan you to deliver some PvP right to you. If you just sit idle and afk - you have only yourself to blame.
Those that against this idea want no PvP, but easy kills. Shame on them.

Edit: i was a bit late.

LOL

AFK Cloakers are trying to do one of two things, both of which are legit and should not be nerfed to protect risk averse carebears.

1. Psych warfare: They will never attack directly, but if they believe you have no will to fight they use your free intel against you.
Fight back against them by ignoring them, they will eventually realize you are immune and move on.

2. Guerrilla attack on economic targets: They are the little guy, with limited PvP options, or they would have brought in a fleet to reinforce your towers and take your sov.
You see them arrive in local, get safe, and either stay hidden or try to sweep them out with PvP ships you expect are more than enough to overwhelm them.
If you are right about your PvP ships being able to overpower them, they will probably recognize this too and do what you did, (with your PvE ships).
Avoid a no win fight, and possibly stick around to see if the actual desired target reappears.

They are complaining that someone else tries to avoid a losing fight right after someone got their PvE ships safe for the exact same reason.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#10 - 2013-06-09 21:38:40 UTC
Lyell Wolf wrote:
Basically it's scanner probes that have the ability to scan down cloaked targets. Here's the thoughts behind it...

When someone cloaks they don't suddenly loose all their matter and just disappear, they simply distort it in some fashion to make it invisible. So effectively, sonar pings would still bounce off them as an object in space, just more finely tuned to find only cloaked ships. This would probably work better in the way of helping solve the problem of cloaked campers, who sit in system hours at a time (AFK or not), rather than make cloaking use some type of fuel or energy source. Essentially, give others the ability to dictate how a cloaker effects them.

It could require Astrometrics V
Must be placed in Expanded Probe Launcher
Cloaked signatures are hard to scan down

This will allow us to rid of AFK cloakers, while allowing those who wish to grief systems while still actively online the ability to do so.


This idea is a culmination of ideas from people I've spoken too so I do not take full credit for all expressed ideas and opinions.



Do you not see the massive hypocrisy in demanding a way to "give others the ability to dictate how a cloaker effects them"? You don't want another player (the cloaked one in local) to be able to affect you, but you want to affect them?

No. Learn2Balance
VulpusFox
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#11 - 2013-06-09 22:41:26 UTC
Bait the cloaker, you'll have a fight. You might win, you might lose. But when he pops that cyno or tries to scram you, he'll make a nice target.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#12 - 2013-06-09 23:57:17 UTC
Lyell Wolf wrote:
Basically it's scanner probes that have the ability to scan down cloaked targets. Here's the thoughts behind it...

When someone cloaks they don't suddenly loose all their matter and just disappear, they simply distort it in some fashion to make it invisible. So effectively, sonar pings would still bounce off them as an object in space, just more finely tuned to find only cloaked ships. This would probably work better in the way of helping solve the problem of cloaked campers, who sit in system hours at a time (AFK or not), rather than make cloaking use some type of fuel or energy source. Essentially, give others the ability to dictate how a cloaker effects them.

It could require Astrometrics V
Must be placed in Expanded Probe Launcher
Cloaked signatures are hard to scan down

This will allow us to rid of AFK cloakers, while allowing those who wish to grief systems while still actively online the ability to do so.


This idea is a culmination of ideas from people I've spoken too so I do not take full credit for all expressed ideas and opinions.



Terrible ideas like this should be kept in private, and you should wash your hands afterwards...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-06-10 00:11:24 UTC
How entire alliances could be scared of one guy not even sitting at the computer is beyond my understanding. Please explain this sense of fear to me.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#14 - 2013-06-10 11:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vesan Terakol
I know that's the least of the problems, but nobody mentioned there's no sound in space (even the tutorial says that). (According to lore, sound is artificially generated for capsuleers to improve awareness).

Edit: Oops, actually someone did say that.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#15 - 2013-06-10 11:33:25 UTC
Well done OP... you've completely broken wormhole space.

If you can't work out how, you're as dumb as your idea.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#16 - 2013-06-10 11:51:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
Danika Princip wrote:
Oh, it's this idea AGAIN. That's what, three times this week?


because it is broken mechanics people keep bringing up ideas to fix it, that you dont have the wits to see the broken mechanics is obvious and i feel sympathy for you.

Robert Caldera wrote:
haha another one.

cloak is fine


another one that doesnt see it or maybe scared his cloaky camp will be nerfed, because he doesnt understand real PVP.

yes cloaky campers are an issue but local is also a strong intel tool which makes people use mechanics as cloaky camping, simply because its a way to get targets and use the intel as a tactic. i dont have a quick nor easy fix but i see its an issue that has 2 sides.

removing local is not an option that is and needs to remain WH space only. Make a cloaked ship scannable like in the OP is also not an option because it will kill WH space

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#17 - 2013-06-10 11:55:07 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Oh, it's this idea AGAIN. That's what, three times this week?


because it is broken mechanics people keep bringing up ideas to fix it, that you dont have the wits to see the broken mechanics is obvious and i feel sympathy for you.

Robert Caldera wrote:
haha another one.

cloak is fine


another one that doesnt see it or maybe scared his cloaky camp will be nerfed, because he doesnt understand real PVP.

yes cloaky campers are an issue but local is also a strong intel tool which makes people use mechanics as cloaky camping, simply because its a way to get targets and use the intel as a tactic. i dont have a quick nor easy fix but i see its an issue that has 2 sides.

removing local is not an option that is and needs to remain WH space only. Make a cloaked ship scannable like in the OP is also not an option because it will kill WH space


Please explain why "cloaky campers" are an issue.

"They shut down my pve activities" is not a valid response just fyi, because they mechanically can't, but even if they could then it'd be up to you to deal with it. I don't complain that gatecamps shut down my autopiloting through lowsec tours :)
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#18 - 2013-06-10 12:01:22 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Please explain why "cloaky campers" are an issue.

"They shut down my pve activities" is not a valid response just fyi, because they mechanically can't, but even if they could then it'd be up to you to deal with it. I don't complain that gatecamps shut down my autopiloting through lowsec tours :)


because they are in local so they pose a threat that cant be ignored in 0.0 space and that is all fine if the person is flying/ active but not wile he is AFK watching a movie or be at work or even sleeping.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#19 - 2013-06-10 13:03:31 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Please explain why "cloaky campers" are an issue.

"They shut down my pve activities" is not a valid response just fyi, because they mechanically can't, but even if they could then it'd be up to you to deal with it. I don't complain that gatecamps shut down my autopiloting through lowsec tours :)


because they are in local so they pose a threat that cant be ignored in 0.0 space and that is all fine if the person is flying/ active but not wile he is AFK watching a movie or be at work or even sleeping.


They are doing EXACTLY the same as people AFK in a station / outpost / POS.... but I never see posts asking for a way to eject those people from their places of safety.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#20 - 2013-06-10 13:16:27 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Please explain why "cloaky campers" are an issue.

"They shut down my pve activities" is not a valid response just fyi, because they mechanically can't, but even if they could then it'd be up to you to deal with it. I don't complain that gatecamps shut down my autopiloting through lowsec tours :)


because they are in local so they pose a threat that cant be ignored in 0.0 space and that is all fine if the person is flying/ active but not wile he is AFK watching a movie or be at work or even sleeping.


They are doing EXACTLY the same as people AFK in a station / outpost / POS.... but I never see posts asking for a way to eject those people from their places of safety.

Ellendras Silver, your argument is distinctly biased in favor of risk averse PvE.

As a PvE pilot in null, I am highly frustrated by AFK Cloaking pilots. They consistently fail to shoot my competition, and make them explode properly.

As a result, my mining efforts are devalued by these fearful minions of high sec, who have scampered willy nilly into my part of town. The idea they can boast about being null sec residents one moment, then hide in terror in their stations the next, is simply amazing to me.
They would be incompetent to compete with me, except for the fact that local gives them greater safety than operating out of high sec permits them.
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