These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
35 Pages123Next pageLast page
 

[s]Mars[/s] EVE needs Women!

First post First post First post
Author
#1 - 2013-06-04 00:54:41 UTC
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/03/96-percent-of-eve-online-players-are-male/
Quote:

CCP marketing bigwig David Reid recently told Destructoid that 96 percent of EVE Online players are male. The site also interviewed EVE senior producer Andie Nordgren, who opined that the numbers are a byproduct of genre.

"Part of it is due to the theme of the game. Science fiction is an extremely male-dominated domain," she explained. Whatever the reasons, CCP is OK with EVE's current demographics. "It's not a goal for us as a development team to specifically increase the number of female players," Nordgren said. It's "more an indicator than something [to] strive for."


Takeaways:
a) GiRL is GiRL. Think about that the next time you cyber.

b) How can we, a bunch of sci-fiction addicted hyper-aggressive males with spastic trigger fingers and/or mining/missioning Carebears who enjoy repeated repetition while dwelling in our parents' basement, help CCP to increase sub numbers by attracting female players to EVE?

I, for one, am at a loss. Especially after my wife laughed when I asked for suggestions.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-06-04 00:59:03 UTC
It's not something that traditionally appeals to women, there's a stigma attached as well as the fact that there's not much character customisation after the creation screen.

if you want more women to play this game, you need avatar interaction within stations and vanity items for them.

Sad but true :(
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-06-04 00:59:33 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/03/96-percent-of-eve-online-players-are-male/
Quote:

CCP marketing bigwig David Reid recently told Destructoid that 96 percent of EVE Online players are male. The site also interviewed EVE senior producer Andie Nordgren, who opined that the numbers are a byproduct of genre.

"Part of it is due to the theme of the game. Science fiction is an extremely male-dominated domain," she explained. Whatever the reasons, CCP is OK with EVE's current demographics. "It's not a goal for us as a development team to specifically increase the number of female players," Nordgren said. It's "more an indicator than something [to] strive for."


Takeaways:
a) GiRL is GiRL. Think about that the next time you cyber.

b) How can we, a bunch of sci-fiction addicted hyper-aggressive males with spastic trigger fingers and/or mining/missioning Carebears who enjoy repeated repetition while dwelling in our parents' basement, help CCP to increase sub numbers by attracting female players to EVE?

I, for one, am at a loss. Especially after my wife laughed when I asked for suggestions.



Making grown men cry juicy tears.. great motivation - least for me *hides*
#4 - 2013-06-04 01:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
stoicfaux wrote:


b) How can we, a bunch of sci-fiction addicted hyper-aggressive males with spastic trigger fingers and/or mining/missioning Carebears who enjoy repeated repetition while dwelling in our parents' basement, help CCP to increase sub numbers by attracting female players to EVE?



We can't.

Let's face it, most of use have never met a real girl. How the heck do you think you can attract one to the game? Might as well try to attract a rhino into subbing for all the ability most of you have in social interaction with someone who isn't a fellow basement dwelling neckbeard.

Mr Epeen Cool
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-06-04 01:03:45 UTC
Good, I'm one of that 4%.

Good, one of the few that got into PC computing when it started.

Good, one of the very few who wanted to be an astronomer at 10 years-old (wanted badly to work at Kitt Peak too).

Women do exist in gaming, but you can't blame them not wanting to deal with little brothers and husband types who scream "MOMMY!!!". -_-

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-04 01:08:50 UTC
my Wife plays but not very often. She does it whenever I ask her to do some missioning/mining or something together. I'm mostly managing her skills since thats boring to her. Beats me how to attract women to it. Wife says to add ponies. (that was a joke) she thinks its clunky and it needs face to face interaction and less ships. Shocked

At least I have a wife that games P (beats me how I was lucky enough to meet a gaming wife)
#7 - 2013-06-04 01:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
my personal, anecdotal evidence calls bullshit on that 4%.

also, what people often fail to consider is how the interaction changes between players, once one of them reveals to be a woman... on games like world of Warcraft the socially awkward and misogynistic trend to get violent for no apparent reason, often harassing or just plain making people uncomfortable. and we are talking wow here, one of the safest as far a theme parks go....

consider now eve. a game that rewards the socially inept, and often puts them in positions of "power", or at least in a position of having enough power to affect the gameplay of others. why would a women put herself in that fix? yeah, sure if there's harassment it can be reported, but the experience has been ruined by this point.

i mean, over the years one thing remains a constant, women in video games don't like to be found. wanna know why? just make an alt say a few times you are a girl on the NPC corp chat, and eventually you'll get an evemail from a dude that wants to smell your farts, a convo from some other creep that wants you to listen to his mic, and god knows how many added you to their watchlist just to get a weird crepo feeling when you log in.

like i said, my personal experience shows a way higher than 4% number. and no, there's nothing to change in the game to appeal to women. that in on itself is already sexist. Blink
#8 - 2013-06-04 02:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
GreenSeed wrote:
i mean, over the years one thing remains a constant, women in video games don't like to be found. wanna know why? just make an alt say a few times you are a girl on the NPC corp chat, and eventually you'll get an evemail from a dude that wants to smell your farts, a convo from some other creep that wants you to listen to his mic, and god knows how many added you to their watchlist just to get a weird crepo feeling when you log in.


This doesn't even need to happen in EVE. Take a woman who's tried voice comms in a sewer like XBox Live, and tell them that voice comms are nearly mandatory in EVE, and what happens? Right. Even if she does give EVE the old college try, it only takes one guy with issues to reinforce the experience that voice comms mean harassment.

GreenSeed wrote:
and no, there's nothing to change in the game to appeal to women. that in on itself is already sexist. Blink


Yeah, the changes to the game itself that get proposed fall into the "make a pink version" category. Even women who like pink can see the condescension dripping off the design.

In this case, the problem is (sub)cultural.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-06-04 02:32:28 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It's not something that traditionally appeals to women, there's a stigma attached as well as the fact that there's not much character customisation after the creation screen.

if you want more women to play this game, you need avatar interaction within stations and vanity items for them.

Sad but true :(

Its the thinking that "oh, women wont enjoy it without pretty barbie doll dresssup all the time" that drives most girls away. the fact that you even have to draw attention to who is a girl also makes them feel singled out. the average female gamer, ocne identified, is singled out by anyone who knows as a FEMALE first, THEN a gamer, and that is a discouragement to the growth of the community, that for soem reason its surprising they are a girl, and tht they must like certain aspects of games and only those BECAUSe of their sex.

fact is, most girls give about as much of a **** about the barbie doll dressup as the guys,. if they are real gamers, people who just care about pretty dressup are not female-exclusive or eevn female-dominant, its just an audience with a preferred taste.

(that ebing said, aesthetically, i would really appreciate soemthing other than heels to wear, like actual utilitarian boots for instance)
Pipernelli Spacemitt
#10 - 2013-06-04 02:40:04 UTC
Clearly we need affirmative action and subsidized PLEX for female players.

I'm sure there are many feminists who would be happy to litigate, err help, CCP over this.
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-04 02:44:35 UTC
This...

GreenSeed wrote:

like i said, my personal experience shows a way higher than 4% number. and no, there's nothing to change in the game to appeal to women. that in on itself is already sexist. Blink

Amanda Chelian
#12 - 2013-06-04 02:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Chelian
I find it quite amusing how CCP spending resources on the Incarna project was widely considered by the playerbase to be a monumental waste of time, yet people now complain that EVE doesn't cater to women.

Player interaction in EVE is mostly limited to a chatbox with 2D portrait images, and more often than not, being on the wrong end of someone's blaster cannons. The vast majority of players in high-sec are just doing their own thing even when in player corps, and you have to look quite hard to find some cooperative content without all the baggage that comes with joining a nullsec alliance or a PvP corp. As you're learning the ropes of the game, you're constantly getting the feeling that EVE is a very asocial game. Comparing that to the mainstream MMOs, where you can be doing group PvE that actually encourages teaming up with players very early on into the game, it's not surprising at all that EVE has a very bad retention rate for female players. Proper Incarna™ (the one with actual social interaction) would have helped massively here, but it's you, the 96%, that wouldn't have any of it, so deal with it. P
Pipernelli Spacemitt
#13 - 2013-06-04 02:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipernelli Spacemitt
Amanda Chelian wrote:
I find it quite amusing how CCP spending resources on the Incarna project was widely considered by the playerbase to be a monumental waste of time, yet people now complain that EVE doesn't cater to women.

Player interaction in EVE is mostly limited to a chatbox with 2D portrait images, and more often than not, being on the wrong end of someone's blaster cannons. The vast majority of players in high-sec are just doing their own thing even when in player corps, and you have to look quite hard to find some cooperative content without all the baggage that comes with joining a nullsec alliance or a PvP corp. As you're learning the ropes of the game, you're constantly getting the feeling that EVE is a very asocial game. Comparing that to the mainstream MMOs, where you can be doing group PvE that actually encourages teaming up with players very early on into the game, it's not surprising at all that EVE has a very bad retention rate for female players. Proper Incarna™ (the one with actual social interaction) would have helped massively here, but it's you, the 96%, that wouldn't have any of it, so deal with it. P


tl;dr: Women are soft sensetive flowers with none of the capacity for spaceship violence that is the unequivocal realm of the menfolk. I'm sure every female player would appreciate your condescending concern for their obvious handicap.

So are you trolling poorly or trying to white-knight for the most abominable non-content that this game has ever seen?
Amanda Chelian
#14 - 2013-06-04 03:02:48 UTC
Pipernelli Spacemitt wrote:


tl;dr: Women are soft sensetive flowers with none of the capacity for spaceship violence that is the unequivocal realm of the menfolk. I'm sure every female player would appreciate your condescending concern for their obvious handicap.

So are you trolling poorly or trying to white-knight for the most abominable non-content that this game has ever seen?


The only troll here is you, my dear, putting words in my mouth that couldn't be further from what I said.

It has nothing to do with women lacking a hard skin, but rather with the fact that we value socializing and cooperative play more than men do. And don't get me wrong, you can find that in EVE, it just takes a lot more effort than it does in most other MMOs, due to the way the game is designed.
#15 - 2013-06-04 03:07:22 UTC
I wonder if the number of women playing EVE is so low because of the number of times they get on voice chat and hear nothing but phallus jokes and requests for sandwiches?
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-06-04 03:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gealbhan
I've tried to get the wife interested in EvE, she has no interest what so ever. She prefers that other game & Farmville.

Edit: I asked her again and she said it's a - "cutthroat, male testosterone dominated game and it just seems full of griefing and hatred." - direct quote.

She elaborated some more but that's the cliff notes version.
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-06-04 03:16:27 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
i mean, over the years one thing remains a constant, women in video games don't like to be found. wanna know why? just make an alt say a few times you are a girl on the NPC corp chat, and eventually you'll get an evemail from a dude that wants to smell your farts, a convo from some other creep that wants you to listen to his mic, and god knows how many added you to their watchlist just to get a weird crepo feeling when you log in.

like i said, my personal experience shows a way higher than 4% number. and no, there's nothing to change in the game to appeal to women. that in on itself is already sexist. Blink


I never play female toons in games. Weirdos tend to play games and it's like a walking target for them. Already this thread has someone screaming about "feminists", to show how bad it is if boys are allowed to play in a male dominated sandbox long enough -- they like to segregate themselves from women (that junior high stage of "I HATE GIRLz!!!").

Women are naturally more social and like to communicate and will gravitate to games that are. So if devs want a healthier gender ratio mimicking real life, they would make their games communication friendlier and encourage socialization. EQII, despite it lower subs than even EvE, has enough women to be noticed. Maybe because they offer good VOIP and activities that ladies enjoy doing by nature. I didn't get EvE to blow up an universe for example, I prefer crafting and sales (which EvE has in spades). So all the tears and whatever talk maybe what the boyz prefer to rut about, but that's all immaterial to me. It's the stereotypical male bravo though. Cute with jealous boyfriends, older than dirt seeing jailbait doing it for show.

Want more ladies in games, devs have to make them social magnets that have activities ladies prefer doing. Other MMOs have 10000001 pets and cute mounts, or for those beyond the doll stage, crafting and nurturing activities. How to keep them away, is to have an male dominated culture that shows the worst of manhood. Ugh

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

#18 - 2013-06-04 03:34:42 UTC
Pipernelli Spacemitt wrote:
Clearly we need affirmative action and subsidized PLEX for female players.

I'm sure there are many feminists who would be happy to litigate, err help, CCP over this.

considering Iceland's current political trend seems to be to prevent Gender inequality even at the cost of personal freedom, i wouldn't be surprised if the push came from up above instead of the sides.

even when i agree with the sentiment, i cant agree with the Means. maybe i just value personal freedoms too much. Pirate the weird thing is that Iceland is one of the top countries when it comes to women's access to education, business and political activity... so all i can say is that im puzzled by Icelandic politics. fixing stuff that's not broken is never a good idea.

but even if outside pressure was put on CCP, i cant think of a game that needs such intervention less than this one. eve hates everyone, regardless of where you are from, or your gender. and my guess is that it is because of that "harsh" nature that women are even more paranoid than usual about revealing personal details.

and no, neither eve needs affirmative action nor evil "feminists" will raid your village, so chill and please go make me a sandwich while you are at it. Bear
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-06-04 03:36:40 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It's not something that traditionally appeals to women, there's a stigma attached as well as the fact that there's not much character customisation after the creation screen.

if you want more women to play this game, you need avatar interaction within stations and vanity items for them.

Sad but true :(


No we don't need any of that stuff.

What we do need is CCP not pandering exclusively to males while shutting out the possibility that females may like to play the game for the game.

What we do not need are a bunch of idiots and morons in chatrooms telling us that we should just ask for isk from guys *instead* of playing the GAME.

What we do not need is to be made to feel unwelcome and unimportant as science fiction fans for being born with certain equipment.

Drop it already the joke is really, really old.

Nice troll though, grats.

New target lock death animation problem #1 ^ eye strain and pain Temporary workaround found to one of these.

#20 - 2013-06-04 03:41:01 UTC
I can't begin to speak for all women, but I can give you one woman's perspective.

First of all, I'm a 49 yr rl straight female IT professional. I have been playing MMORPG's since the very beginning, from MUD's, Meridian 59, UO, EQ, AC(Darktide).... SWG, WoW... and many others. I've been a SciFi/Fantasy fan from the moment I learned to read, and I love Eve. I've PvP'd thru many of these games,and I enjoy it. So with that said, I've probably already broken every stereotype i've seen uttered on these forums.

What i can tell you is what I believe many women don't like - and it has little to do with CCP and the game in general.

Yes, this game is predominately male.. personally, I rather enjoy that and I believe many women would. However, I've been in many voice and text chat channels where it's automatically assumed that everyone in the channel is male. I also have a slightly(not abnormally) lower than average voice for a woman, and even when I do speak in channel it's assumed I'm male, which is pretty funny - just goes to show how expectations influence perception.
At any rate, I've FREQUENTLY heard many both objectifying and disparaging remarks about women.

Personally, this doesn't bother me - I've found It's rather indicative of guys with **** poor self esteem who need to somehow flaunt large epeen at the other guys in the room. I'm used to playing and working in male dominated arenas. I don't however feel inclined to really buddy up with guys who act this way.. I'd rather play with people who are going to focus on the game, or friendships/camaraderie within the game. I'm very sure this makes many women uncomfortable. Oh and by the way, gents, if you're looking to attract girls... this is a huge turnoff ;)

I play solo about 70% of the time, not because I don't enjoy the company of others, but because my job and time constraints make it hard to fleet up for long.

So.. long and short of it... if you want to attract more women to this game, encourage your male friends who tend towards misogynistic behavior(and you know the ones I mean) to not be such douchebags.

In terms of game mechanics... the only thing I can say is many female gamers I know prefer cooperative team play rather than competitive... there's certainly alot of both in EVE... I'd just promote that more perhaps.
35 Pages123Next pageLast page
Forum Jump