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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Market interaction between players

Author
Felcas
Prosperity At All Cost
#1 - 2013-05-28 20:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Felcas
Short version (please read everything to better understand):
1st-Add the name of the owner (client) of each order in the market window Big smile
2nd-Make possible to MERGE multiple orders of the same item in the same station.
3rd-Add skill oposite to Margin Trade + set some guarantee/colateral for the parties using it.
4th-Add some guarantees/colateral for the parties using Margin Trade.

Now the detailed version

I have been trading a lot of money in very diferent products between two major hubs.

I am finding out that despite the $0.01 undercut battle, a lot of times it is possible to talk with competitors in the market and play a better deal for all, sometimes even making them friends and not more competitors.

However this is only possible by trading at least 1 unit. This is a no problem if you are trading lets say missiles or ore, however this gets much more complicated if you are selling a T2 BS that costs 800mil, it is not smart to buy one just to chat a little, specially if you only sell one or two of them.

Another problem is that as I told before, you can work out better deals and end up buying stuff cheaper from people selling high or much simple example, you buy more stuff that is selling well, in either cases if you sell them in the market you end up with two or more orders of the SAME ITEM in the SAME STATION. This is annoying and count up as open orders for the same item. Today the only thing you can do if this annoy you too much or if you need to free up order to place more orders in the market then is to cancel everyone of them, stack the itens and resale, but then you end up having to pay AGAIN the sale taxes and setup order fee.

Another example to ilustrate, you might be selling for example faction ammo and from time to time for lets say $900 a piece and from time to time, appear someone that wants to get rid of it and place on the market a few hundred units for lets say $100 $200 sometimes even less than this. I buy everything that shows up like this and I resale for $900, it takes a while but I eventually sells and make a good profit.

So my wish list for CCP is:
1st-Open up access for the clients in the market! Make it an item in the market list on the side of the expiration, make it available to talk with people before having to trade. This is the most important I think in this topic Big smile
CCP always says that EVE is about interaction between players, but the market needs some love on this and despite a lot of people might think the market IS a battlefield and can be much harsh then a firefight. Billions can be earned or lost with the right or bad strategy, timing and even diplomacy. Friendships can be made and wars can start, nice deals or market plots can be made because of market interaction, and all this is very simple to happen, just showing us the name of the owner of the order on the market list. By the way, if one want he/she could have a ticker in the sell/buy order to remain anonymous, even after the deal is made.
Too much gain from too little

2nd-Make it possible to MERGE orders of the same item in the same station. I see this as simple as selecting more then one order with CTRL+left click and then right click to access menu, and then click on MERGE ORDERS, then the system would check if it is possible to do so, if yes, a box would show up and you could adjust price the price, expiration would be calculated as an average of the orders, to avoid people merging a new 1 unit order for the next 90days with one order that is about to expire.

3rd-Since we do have Margin Trade, we should have something that oposes it to enrich the market enviroment. We could have a skill that would allow us to fill buy orders whitout having the item ourselves, this would have consequences, first a 10% colateral would need to be collected along sales taxes from the seller and the ammount needed to buy the order would be also taken in custody as colateral, second a timer would start for that order, this could even create automatically a contract to be delivered. The timer would be set from the buyer, lets say 12 hours, 1 day, 2 days... up to 2 weeks. If the seller don't deliver the itens in time the sales taxes are lost to the broker and the 10% is paid to de buyer. If the deliver is made, then the broker would pay the total ammount to the seller.

4th-About Margin Trade, I think we could have at least a colateral associated to the risks involved dealing with margin. My suggestion is 10% colateral is taken from the buyer, if the buyer does not have all the money when the seller bring the goods then the seller keep the goods and the 10% colateral. Maybe we could even have a timer set by the seller, giving additional time for the buyer to get the money or else lose the 10%.

In defense of 3rd and 4th as some will say, I don't think this will kill scam in the market, it will only give people more tools to avoid being scammed and do their job, as in space, you have modules that you can use to avoid being poded, it is up to you to know how to use them and there is also the possibility that the other be smarter then you, in space or in the market.
Giza Skojin
Prosperity At All Cost
#2 - 2013-05-29 22:12:24 UTC
Since I am mainly a trader in EVE I really liked all the ideas you have posted and I second on that.
I also have some ideas of myself on the market but I don't have patience to write them down as you did.
Hope other people like and CCP at least give it a check to see if it is doable or not.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#3 - 2013-05-30 19:46:46 UTC
1. No to Don't care. Commodities markets are generally meant to be anonymous. That said, you always buy from the lowest sell order on the market anyway, so who cares.

2. Sure, why not. That said, modifying the price by any amount resets the order's expiration, so half the idea is simply irrelevant.

3. No.

4. No. You don't seem to understand how the margin trade skill works. Or how the margin trade scams work. (Hint: At Margin Trade 5 there's about 20% of the value of the buy order being put into escrow when the order is made.)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Felcas
Prosperity At All Cost
#4 - 2013-06-04 05:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Felcas
RubyPorto wrote:
1. No to Don't care. Commodities markets are generally meant to be anonymous. That said, you always buy from the lowest sell order on the market anyway, so who cares.

Yes you are right... in the real life world, the same world that have rules that makes it a crime to do a lot of things we do in the market inside EVE, including the scams with margin trade. So that argument is like you said irrelevant too, EVE is a battleground in every aspect, giving names to the people in the market can take the game to a new level, as I already explained. PLUS following YOUR argument, even after the transaction the name should not appear, but it does. What is the logic in that?


RubyPorto wrote:
2. Sure, why not. That said, modifying the price by any amount resets the order's expiration, so half the idea is simply irrelevant.

Hummm I didn't remember that detail, then better yet.

RubyPorto wrote:
3. No.


RubyPorto wrote:
4. No. You don't seem to understand how the margin trade skill works. Or how the margin trade scams work. (Hint: At Margin Trade 5 there's about 20% of the value of the buy order being put into escrow when the order is made.)


Well perhaps I am not a speciallized scammer but I actually do understand, I have been victim and now I am making some money with the margin trade skill, it is about creating an artificial demand for a product you have, and technically if you flat your wallet when the times come the order is canceled because you can't buy it. but that is not the point, you didn't wanted to buy, you did wanted to sell and you just did it.

Despite I am making money scamming others I don't think this is ok, not because of moral stuff, in fact I think that EVE is a great place to teach some ingenuous people how the RL is. But because it does not make sense. In every aspect of EVE you can attack and you can defend, you have tools for that, you have ships, mods, rigs, inplants and skills, everyone have the chance to defend themselves from any attack, however the way the market is at this moment it does not give the players a way to detect/defend themselves from scammers using Margin Trade, off course that if you se something too good to be true than it may be a scam and even soo there is some true business that can give you very nice profits, like 48% and the funiest is that they are very neglected, and there is other cases as well, everyday mods that are in the market, those you are not able to detect anyway. I don't think this is aligned with the philosopy of the game.