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[proposal] ban the use of ISboxer

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Author
safrrr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-03-22 02:45:40 UTC
tho i have been inactive for quite some time, it appears that in the meantime, ccp has authorized a program called ISboxer for people to be used. appearently, this software allows multiple accounts to react to a single account.

ive entered a system, and saw 80 accounts all with the same name, and they were mining ice. must i remind CCP that during the early years, they declared war on macro mining, and that everyone even doing it for a second was banned? with the use of isboxer, even if the accounts were paid for, they most probably were still just farming isk and sold it for real life money. how the hell can i take CCP serious if they allowed such things?

the use of multiple accounts is allowed, but by allowing programs like these, you submit to the fact that you will never win against isk selling. that is not the CCP that i used to know. what happened from the early days of eve, till now, that made ccp allow isk selling? is it the constant line of active accounts on the servers? is it the declining interest in the game? start advertising on tv, would be a great start. get lady googoo to say, i love my spaceship. do you? and suddenly 5 million of her followers will start playing eve.
Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-03-22 03:55:57 UTC
safrrr wrote:
tho i have been inactive for quite some time, it appears that in the meantime, ccp has authorized a program called ISboxer for people to be used. appearently, this software allows multiple accounts to react to a single account.

ive entered a system, and saw 80 accounts all with the same name, and they were mining ice. must i remind CCP that during the early years, they declared war on macro mining, and that everyone even doing it for a second was banned? with the use of isboxer, even if the accounts were paid for, they most probably were still just farming isk and sold it for real life money. how the hell can i take CCP serious if they allowed such things?

the use of multiple accounts is allowed, but by allowing programs like these, you submit to the fact that you will never win against isk selling. that is not the CCP that i used to know. what happened from the early days of eve, till now, that made ccp allow isk selling? is it the constant line of active accounts on the servers? is it the declining interest in the game? start advertising on tv, would be a great start. get lady googoo to say, i love my spaceship. do you? and suddenly 5 million of her followers will start playing eve.



Instead of whining to CCP about behavior they already endorsed, perhaps you could consider killing them all?

If you brought this up in the crime and punishment forums, and named the player and the systems they were in, there might be players interested in exhumer loot.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Mag's
Azn Empire
#3 - 2013-03-22 09:00:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
No.

Answer me these.

What does those 80 single accounts gain, that cannot be gained by another 80 solo accounts?

What is the difference in cost, between the 80 single player accounts and the 80 solo ones?

What happens if both the 80 single and solo players, leaves their PC for over an hour whilst mining?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

safrrr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-03-22 12:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: safrrr
we are not talking about 80 single accounts. im talking about 1 player having the ability to have as many accounts as he want, all working at the same time. 1 player could topple a market faster, than just 5 players mining together. prices would become too imbalanced, and other players would gain less out of it by doing so. in this case, ice mining. 1 player lowers the prices of ice dramatically, tho this is perfect for those who buy ice, but those who sell it are forced to move to another region to gain anything from it.

also, this could help isk farmers gain their isk faster, and then sell it to people, for real life money sooner. as 1 player could make as many accounts as he wants, then devide the isk sold to other accounts, who then sell it off. this tactic used by isk sellers is legal, as only the account selling the isk directly, is getting banned.
safrrr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-22 12:25:10 UTC
1
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-03-22 12:30:12 UTC
safrrr wrote:
we are not talking about 80 single accounts. im talking about 1 player having the ability to have as many accounts as he want, all working at the same time. 1 player could topple a market faster, than just 5 players mining together. prices would become too imbalanced, and other players would gain less out of it by doing so. in this case, ice mining. 1 player lowers the prices of ice dramatically, tho this is perfect for those who buy ice, but those who sell it are forced to move to another region to gain anything from it.

also, this could help isk farmers gain their isk faster, and then sell it to people, for real life money sooner. as 1 player could make as many accounts as he wants, then devide the isk sold to other accounts, who then sell it off. this tactic used by isk sellers is legal, as only the account selling the isk directly, is getting banned.
You were talking about 80 accounts. But I see you didn't answer the questions, merely started down the strawman route.

As you avoided answering, I'll take it you agree there is no difference. OK moving on then.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#7 - 2013-03-22 15:17:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
No.

Answer me these.

What does those 80 single accounts gain, that cannot be gained by another 80 solo accounts?




80 x more Ice per hour, (per player).

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#8 - 2013-03-22 15:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
CCP has stated this app is allowed. It is not macro because a human must be at the keyboard to send commands, even tho those commands are repeated across more then one account. ISBOXER is legit non macro app that works for lots of games and across those other games they are also allowed and not considered macros, cheats, or hacks.

Your problem is that ISK made could potentially be sold for real world money??? Any source of ISK making that goes beyond the characters immediate need could inevitably sold for real world money. So... lets remove incursions, level 5 mission running, all 0.0 gravimetric plexes, oh and wormholes too. That way no one can have any amounts of ISK, with any amounts of accounts, with ISBOXER or manually, that could potentially be sold.

Nah that wouldn't fly would it????

If market forces are what you are worried about then... how can you expect 80 pilots doing any singe task at a time giving them the ability to tip the EVE market on their own? Even if they do have some small effect then that means others who are also farming ice will move to mining other things in other systems or regions and the market will balance out.

Just because someone has 80 accounts (BTW screenshot or your just BSing) this must mean they are selling real ISK? Those alts probably do PI too and fuel towers somewhere in deep 0.0. Any extra ISK made might end up going to pay for plexes for those 80 accounts, witch by the way would require 44B ISK a Month. In a way, they already sell ISK.... If they use PLEX to manage their account they are essentially turning 44B ISK a month in to $1,196USD and using that to pay their accounts already. That is the type of ISK selling CCP likes and makes a profit off of.

If you see it as such a problem then do something about it, rather then just posting on a forum. Go war dec them or gank them. Several hundred losses over a month then it would become more of a hassle then it is worth to them and they will sell off the toons and stop. Take the path that creates content for other pilots, just like other pilots have done in the past rather then bitching about it on the forums.

/rant
Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-03-22 15:38:57 UTC
safrrr wrote:
we are not talking about 80 single accounts. im talking about 1 player having the ability to have as many accounts as he want, all working at the same time. 1 player could topple a market faster, than just 5 players mining together. prices would become too imbalanced, and other players would gain less out of it by doing so. in this case, ice mining. 1 player lowers the prices of ice dramatically, tho this is perfect for those who buy ice, but those who sell it are forced to move to another region to gain anything from it.

also, this could help isk farmers gain their isk faster, and then sell it to people, for real life money sooner. as 1 player could make as many accounts as he wants, then devide the isk sold to other accounts, who then sell it off. this tactic used by isk sellers is legal, as only the account selling the isk directly, is getting banned.


Maybe he's not an isk farmer, but earns isk to fuel his addiction for losing capital ships?

There are also industrial players who own freighter accounts by the hundreds, but those are harder to notice. Should we disallow them to? Their isk could just as easily be channeled into RWT.

If you feel something is unfair, shoot it until you're satisfied.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-03-22 18:59:29 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No.

Answer me these.

What does those 80 single accounts gain, that cannot be gained by another 80 solo accounts?




80 x more Ice per hour, (per player).



The effective income remains the same. That person with 80 accounts has to PLEX those 80 accounts, which takes the same amount of time as a player with 1 account.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#11 - 2013-03-22 19:24:32 UTC
safrrr wrote:
must i remind CCP that during the early years, they declared war on macro mining, and that everyone even doing it for a second was banned? with the use of isboxer, even if the accounts were paid for, they most probably were still just farming isk and sold it for real life money. how the hell can i take CCP serious if they allowed such things?

Macro mining and the use of ISBoxer to broadcast keystrokes are two separate things. Macroing, by definition, is an automated process that does the job of the end-user by automatically executing repetitive tasks. ISBoxer's broadcasting of keystrokes does not automate the process of doing things. It simply makes the process easier to do across multiple accounts. Macroing allows for individuals to perform repetitive tasks without being present at the keyboard (aka: botting). ISBoxer still requires the person to be at the keyboard and engaging with the client program.

RMT is a completely separate issue and is handled by CCP's security investigation process. Macroing is not limited to just RMT scenarios. The issues are two complete topics unto themselves and should be discussed as such, not lumped together in a hissy-fit.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2013-03-22 20:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No.

Answer me these.

What does those 80 single accounts gain, that cannot be gained by another 80 solo accounts?




80 x more Ice per hour, (per player).

Did you miss the other questions?

If we apply your line of approach, we get the following answers to 2 and 3.

2. 80 x more cost per month.

3. They stop mining.

You could have simply answered the question, instead of attempting to make a point. But the trouble with that point, was that you avoided the question that made it pointless. I. E. number 2.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#13 - 2013-03-22 21:21:52 UTC

They don't earn ice at a faster rate / pilot than anyone else....

ISBoxer is not the problem... the problem is Ice doesn't deplete.... If those ice roids popped regularly, then multiboxing 80 clients would become very inefficient and/or tedious.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-03-22 23:18:02 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
+1

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

They don't earn ice at a faster rate / pilot than anyone else....

ISBoxer is not the problem... the problem is Ice doesn't deplete.... If those ice roids popped regularly, then multiboxing 80 clients would become very inefficient and/or tedious.


As inefficient and/or tedious as 1 client?

Botter =/= human multiboxing

Human input amount for 80 accounts:
Banned bot:
0 human input, 80 bots
ISBoxer:
1 human input, 79 bots.
Multiboxing:
80 human input, 0 bots.
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-03-23 01:19:04 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
ISBoxer:
1 human input, 79 bots.


Tell us all about how those 79 accounts require zero human input.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-03-26 14:43:29 UTC
Ok.. though this has likely been said before.

Macro mining and the use of 'multiboxing' tools are two very separate things.
One is a pure automation tool. the other allows one player to control multiple accounts.

The difference is that one allows a person to log in, turn their miner on, then go out / to sleep / watch a movie etc, while the other requires that the person still put in the commands manually, though they can do so on multiple accounts simultaneously.

botting and macro mining is banned because it is an automation tool.
Multiboxing is not.
it's a very fine line between the two, granted, but it is a distinction that has to be made.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#17 - 2013-03-26 18:18:09 UTC
So basically what you're saying is you're too poor to afford the number of alts required for this sort of thing, and therefore since you can't have the ball, NOONE CAN HAVE it so you throw it on the roof and go home and cry to mummy.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-03-29 12:25:52 UTC
safrrr wrote:
ive entered a system, and saw 80 accounts all with the same name, and they were mining ice. must i remind CCP that during the early years, they declared war on macro mining, and that everyone even doing it for a second was banned? with the use of isboxer, even if the accounts were paid for, they most probably were still just farming isk and sold it for real life money. how the hell can i take CCP serious if they allowed such things?


Having come from WoW where multiboxing by 40+ isn't as uncommon anymore, to see it has followed into EvE is sad for players. I was hoping with a macro ban multibox software like that wasn't allowed. :(

Isbox and other macro (yes they are macro programs) multibox software are a bane to MMOs as they allow so many players to act in unison with 1 click. No one cares if it's 2 or 3 accounts, it's the 40+ variety that is the problem. I don't have a problem with these programs for a few at a time, it's after seeing them pollute MMOs with their presence, to know 40+ multiboxers are alive and well that is a concern to me. Imagine them running PvP fleets - 1 player behind the wheel. Talking about game imbalance. In WoW such multiboxers literally own PvP battlegrounds, no chance to win. Put them in a FW or null fleet, it's the same results (would take a blob to defeat them because of the concentrated firepower 1 click can offer...a huge blob). Couple players like that could own territory even.

+1 support from multiple MMO experience dealing with that tomfoolery.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#19 - 2013-04-01 17:55:09 UTC
i had been wondering what software people were using to multibox with, thanks for clueing me up on it! =)
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#20 - 2013-04-02 05:36:35 UTC
safrrr wrote:
we are not talking about 80 single accounts. im talking about 1 player having the ability to have as many accounts as he want, all working at the same time. 1 player could topple a market faster, than just 5 players mining together. prices would become too imbalanced, and other players would gain less out of it by doing so. in this case, ice mining. 1 player lowers the prices of ice dramatically, tho this is perfect for those who buy ice, but those who sell it are forced to move to another region to gain anything from it.


Its called the power of [insert number here] as advertised by CCP.

Working as intended.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

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