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DED 1/10 and broken despawn mechanics

Author
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-03-19 06:50:05 UTC
So, last December they changed DED 1/10 and 2/10 from static to dynamic sites.

A friend of mine found me a Sansha Military Outpost (DED 1/10) yesterday and I went to investigate.

· NPC in second room drops a key. (When the site was static, he used to respawn. Obviously now he does not.)
· Acceleration gate to third room consumes the key (this is the only way to activate the gate)
· Structure in third room is the despawn trigger for the site.

If you don't destroy the structure, and you warp out (accidentally or intentionally), you cannot get back in*, and cannot complete the site. The site then sits in limbo until it despawns "naturally" due to the non-completion timer.
(* Unless for some reason you a hoarding keys and not using them...)

So what do you guys think?
[ ] Warping out from the last room should make the site despawn? (Since you can't get back in)
[ ] Valid gameplay tactic, being able to prevent anyone from completing the site and stopping it from respawning for day(s)
[ ] Acceleration gate should stay open permanently once the key is used

I'll take a guess and say the other previously static sites have similar issues. It would explain why the sites are so rare: it only takes one player to (accidentally) screw up running the site, and that would drops the site from circulation for days. Also yes, I have already bug reported it.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2013-03-19 06:52:57 UTC
St Mio wrote:
[ ] Warping out from the last room should make the site despawn? (Since you can't get back in)
[ ] Valid gameplay tactic, being able to prevent anyone from completing the site and stopping it from respawning for day(s)
[x] Acceleration gate should stay open permanently once the key is used


Wow. Just wow. This is dumb.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-03-19 10:41:03 UTC
St Mio wrote:
[ ] Warping out from the last room should make the site despawn? (Since you can't get back in)
[ ] Valid gameplay tactic, being able to prevent anyone from completing the site and stopping it from respawning for day(s)
[X ] Acceleration gate should stay open permanently once the key is used

Seems so obvious.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-03-19 15:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsubutai
Shouldn't the relevant NPCs/structures respawn after downtime? When they were static, the gatekeeper NPCs/structures would respawn every hour or so, which is obviously no longer happening, but the DT respawn should still work as normal.
Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#5 - 2013-03-19 15:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodama Ikari
lol what a joke. CCP didn't even take they stupid keys out of the 1/10s when they made them dynamic spawns. Of course the key should be removed entirely (or it should be useful only for blitzing, with the gate unlocking permanently upon clearing the room). Any other option would be stupid (no offense Mio).
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-03-20 04:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Tsubutai wrote:
Shouldn't the relevant NPCs/structures respawn after downtime? When they were static, the gatekeeper NPCs/structures would respawn every hour or so, which is obviously no longer happening, but the DT respawn should still work as normal.

I agree.

I had posted about it in a couple of other threads, here in this thread and in this other thread as well.


DMC
Zircon Dasher
#7 - 2013-03-21 15:57:43 UTC
St Mio wrote:

So what do you guys think?
[ ] Warping out from the last room should make the site despawn? (Since you can't get back in)
[ x ] Valid gameplay tactic, being able to prevent anyone from completing the site and stopping it from respawning for day(s)
[ ] Acceleration gate should stay open permanently once the key is used


The less that are run, the more my stack of loot from the old system is worth. The higher the loot price, the more whine threads are generated about risk v reward (e.g. 4/10's). Eventually CCP moves explo content to low/null where the 'risk' is more in line, and those people who band together and make claims on an area reap the rewards.

IMO this is a feature not a bug.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2013-03-21 16:15:33 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
St Mio wrote:

So what do you guys think?
[ ] Warping out from the last room should make the site despawn? (Since you can't get back in)
[ x ] Valid gameplay tactic, being able to prevent anyone from completing the site and stopping it from respawning for day(s)
[ ] Acceleration gate should stay open permanently once the key is used


The less that are run, the more my stack of loot from the old system is worth. The higher the loot price, the more whine threads are generated about risk v reward (e.g. 4/10's). Eventually CCP moves explo content to low/null where the 'risk' is more in line, and those people who band together and make claims on an area reap the rewards.

IMO this is a feature not a bug.


Wow. So 1/10s being broken will force CCP to move 4/10s to low and so it fits your goal of nerfing high sec so don't fix 1/10s? Did I get that right?
Zircon Dasher
#9 - 2013-03-21 16:17:28 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Wow. So 1/10s being broken will force CCP to move 4/10s to low and so it fits your goal of nerfing high sec so don't fix 1/10s? Did I get that right?


No.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2013-03-21 16:21:22 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Wow. So 1/10s being broken will force CCP to move 4/10s to low and so it fits your goal of nerfing high sec so don't fix 1/10s? Did I get that right?


No.


Then by all means, please clarify.
Zircon Dasher
#11 - 2013-03-21 16:54:51 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Then by all means, please clarify.


As far as I can tell you assert that I said something that I did not say. I am not sure how to clarify a statement so that you read what is written. What?

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2013-03-21 17:06:04 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
As far as I can tell you assert that I said something that I did not say. I am not sure how to clarify a statement so that you read what is written. What?


So when you say:

Zircon Dasher wrote:
The less that are run, the more my stack of loot from the old system is worth. The higher the loot price, the more whine threads are generated about risk v reward (e.g. 4/10's). Eventually CCP moves explo content to low/null where the 'risk' is more in line, and those people who band together and make claims on an area reap the rewards.


in reply to whether or not 1/10s are broken, what I read is something along the lines of:

1) 1/10s being inaccessible will drive up the price of loot generated under the old system.
2) This will increase the level of whine about the relative rewards of high sec.
3) This will force CCP to readjust risk-reward to favor low sec.
4) This is a good thing, so 1/10s should be left as they are.

What am I missing?
Helene Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#13 - 2013-03-21 17:21:41 UTC
They should be restored in number, but still require scanning with probes. Restored with either a nerfed amount of loot or so much that it causes prices to dip. Frigs die easily, no need for them to have modules that cost 50 mil+. Cry more old 1/10 bears. We need them to get more people into exploring in the first place, so more end in low or whs for pew.
Zircon Dasher
#14 - 2013-03-21 19:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Zhilia Mann wrote:
what I read is something along the lines of:

1) 1/10s being inaccessible will drive up the price of loot generated under the old system.
2) This will increase the level of whine about the relative rewards of high sec.
3) This will force CCP to readjust risk-reward to favor low sec.
4) This is a good thing, so 1/10s should be left as they are.

What am I missing?

It (appeared) that you thought I was trying to leverage current 1/10 mechanics to A) force 4/10's, specifically, to low and B) nerf highsec. I reject A) insofar as it suggests only moving 4/10s. I reject B) because it has nothing to do with nerfing highsec. It has everything to do with leveraging current content (DED sites) to drive conflict. DED sites are wonderful conflict drivers and are currently underutilized. Especially since the removal of the static 1-2/10's. Anyway, the current quote is much closer to what I was saying, so it looks like everyone is on the same page.

I would offer few additional things.

- amend 1) to not discriminate between old and new loot, as there is no difference.
- amend 3) to reflect the movement of all highsec DED sites to low/null.
- add 3.5) Current key mechanics allow for flash points to be held open in a system for several days.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Kodama Ikari
Thragon
#15 - 2013-03-21 21:08:59 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
As far as I can tell you assert that I said something that I did not say. I am not sure how to clarify a statement so that you read what is written. What?


So when you say:

Zircon Dasher wrote:
The less that are run, the more my stack of loot from the old system is worth. The higher the loot price, the more whine threads are generated about risk v reward (e.g. 4/10's). Eventually CCP moves explo content to low/null where the 'risk' is more in line, and those people who band together and make claims on an area reap the rewards.


in reply to whether or not 1/10s are broken, what I read is something along the lines of:

1) 1/10s being inaccessible will drive up the price of loot generated under the old system.
2) This will increase the level of whine about the relative rewards of high sec.
3) This will force CCP to readjust risk-reward to favor low sec.
4) This is a good thing, so 1/10s should be left as they are.

What am I missing?


This was my takeaway. And I like it P

Except its illogical. because if the loot is only going up in value because its scarce, that's not really a buff to explorers since they're also finding less of it. You might consider that broken 1/10s and 2/10s will drive up the price of some a-type modules, but thats questionable i believe. The only part that really makes sense is it makes his existing stacks of c and b-type loot more valuable. I figured the bit about the whine-factor increasing was a just a joke. Plus tengu's aren't running 1/10's and 2/10s in the first place. I and I can't imagine anyone so heartless that they wouldn't want those plexes to be there for the little people.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#16 - 2013-03-21 21:34:47 UTC
Kodama Ikari wrote:
You might consider that broken 1/10s and 2/10s will drive up the price of some a-type modules, but thats questionable i believe. The only part that really makes sense is it makes his existing stacks of c and b-type loot more valuable. I figured the bit about the whine-factor increasing was a just a joke. Plus tengu's aren't running 1/10's and 2/10s in the first place. I and I can't imagine anyone so heartless that they wouldn't want those plexes to be there for the little people.


Just some random samples:

Coreli A-type 1mn Afterburner: 38mil

Coreli B-type 1mn Afterburner: 60mil

Corpii A-type Adaptive Nano Plating: 140mil

Corpii B-type Adaptive Nano Plating: name your price

Pithi A-type Small Shield Booster: 355mil

Pithi B-type Small Shield Booster: 255mil

Pithi C-type Small Shield Booster: 150mil

The shield boosters are still rational and as a whole are going way up. The ANPs are hilarious. The ABs are silly.

I think it's pretty clear that the paucity of working 1/10s and 2/10s are skewing the market, but the exact effects are harder to quantify (since I'm lazyposting; doing a trend wouldn't be all that hard).

So... meh. I think I'd like to see the low sec static sites restored -- which would create the conflict we can all agree is desirable. But I can't bring myself to endorse a bunch of high sec sites theoretically made for newer players sitting unused. Moving them to the scanning system was a great change, but the fact that so many of them just don't work as intended seems not to be... working as intended?

As for high sec 4/10s, that's an entirely different issue. I honestly can't bring myself to care. I certainly don't run them, but I don't begrudge those who do. If farming The Forge for GGG and GSO makes people happy... then at least they aren't adding as much ISK to the economy than they would be grinding missions instead?