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BREAKING NEWS: Amarr Empire Opens Their Arms to Outcast Clone Soldiers

Author
Kane Spero
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
#1 - 2013-03-18 14:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kane Spero
I don't know what the cluster is coming to when I might be looking to the Amarr Empire for refuge for my men.

I'm still wary of this being a clever ruse, but I'll keep an eye on this situation as it develops. At least one nation doesn't see genocide as the answer to men and women who have served their nations.

CPM0 and Owner of Spero Escrow Services

Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-03-18 14:49:37 UTC
There is wisdom in being wary but I would suggest browsing over GalNet to see which of the four major nations operates the largest number of charities: the Amarr Empire.

Despite common claim to the contrary, we are not as inhumane as some would strive to paint us.
Gosakumori Noh
End Of Mankind
#3 - 2013-03-18 15:16:21 UTC
A master stroke from Her Majesty. It's a good day to be Gold!
Havid Av'Nim
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-03-18 15:23:45 UTC
I am today ordering that part of my industrial fleet be made available to ferry those seeking refuge in the Empire. Those in need should contact my daughter, Mei Av'Nim to make arrangements.

Havid Av'Nim Holder Av'Nim Family Trading Co

Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#5 - 2013-03-18 16:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Astroyka
So basically, they can go to Amarr so long as they are "willingly Reclaimed", are they aware that it takes generations to become "Reclaimed" or are they a special case unlike the countless Matari currently enslaved on the Reclamation path?

I assume that the small print will probably mention something to this effect, essentially enslaving the soldiers. Does this mean Amarr will forego future slave raids into Matari space if the abundance of clone soldiers is enough??

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Simon Louvaki
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2013-03-18 16:41:40 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
So basically, they can go to Amarr so long as they are "willingly Reclaimed", are they aware that it takes generations to become "Reclaimed" or are they a special case unlike the countless Matri currently enslaved on the Reclamation path?


I believe the majority issue with the Matari is that they weren't willing to be Reclaimed, hence why it took up to nine generations and remains a staple for much religious misunderstanding about Amarr throughout the cluster. The Ammatar for example suffered no such fate (by in large at least). There is no reason to believe based on what we know about those who willfully embraced the Amarrian faith that it would take generations for these soldiers to be Reclaimed, if that is their wish.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-03-18 16:51:42 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
So basically, they can go to Amarr so long as they are "willingly Reclaimed", are they aware that it takes generations to become "Reclaimed" or are they a special case unlike the countless Matari currently enslaved on the Reclamation path?

I assume that the small print will probably mention something to this effect, essentially enslaving the soldiers. Does this mean Amarr will forego future slave raids into Matari space if the abundance of clone soldiers is enough??


Valid questions.

Reclaiming, at its core, has actually nothing to do with slavery. Reclaiming is the process by which people and land are annexed into the Empire to be placed on the path of service to God. The particulars of that process may vary depending on the situation, but it is not always slavery. You will also note it was made quite specific slavery will not be involved in this situation.

The Minmatar that remain enslaved are continuing their path toward salvation. Yes, it will be longer for some than for others but that is the nature of salvation. I understand slavery to be a very controversial subject here so I will speak no further on it.

To your last statement, there have been no slave raids into Minmatar spaced backed by the throne in quite some time. If you are referring to the "leaked" Federation intelligence report, the Empire proper has made no statement regarding the operations and the allegations themselves have still not been confirmed.
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#8 - 2013-03-18 16:52:45 UTC
So Amarr is willing to have ranks of faux believers, because that's what will happen...

> "Welcome to Amarr; Do you believe in our god?"
< "Yes I do [crosses fingers]"
> "Here are your papers, now go with the grace of God and do his bidding"
< "Woot, that was easy"

More like:

> "Welcome to Amarr; Do you believe in our god?"
< "Nope, I'm an atheist"
> "Not a problem, just go with this nice man who will look after you"
< "Woot, that was easy"
> "Another slave for the Empire; NEXT"

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Simon Louvaki
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#9 - 2013-03-18 16:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Astroyka wrote:
So Amarr is willing to have ranks of faux believers, because that's what will happen...

> "Welcome to Amarr; Do you believe in our god?"
< "Yes I do [crosses fingers]"
> "Here are your papers, now go with the grace of God and do his bidding"
< "Woot, that was easy"

More like:

> "Welcome to Amarr; Do you believe in our god?"
< "Nope, I'm an atheist"
> "Not a problem, just go with this nice man who will look after you"
< "Woot, that was easy"
> "Another slave for the Empire; NEXT"


Erhm...no..thats not at all how it works. The taking of new slaves [those who have not been born into slavery at least] has been forbidden in the Empire for some time now. Such a practice might be more common in the Kingdom however.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-03-18 16:56:11 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
> "Another slave for the Empire; NEXT"


“Those who are willingly Reclaimed shall not be slaves. We will allow them to live freely within their colonies, alongside their caretakers.”

As explained above, Reclaiming does not necessitate slavery. If it is stated they will not be slaves then they will not be slaves.
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#11 - 2013-03-18 17:05:40 UTC
Between a rock and hard place I'm pretty sure a clone solider would fake his or her belief of a God if it meant he/she was given sanctuary and all the benefits of the empire.

You must see that, surely?

I really do doubt Amarr will turn away the "unwilling", so what happens to those?

Be careful, I smell hypocrisy around the corner.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-03-18 17:11:53 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
Between a rock and hard place I'm pretty sure a clone solider would fake his or her belief of a God if it meant he/she was given sanctuary and all the benefits of the empire.

You must see that, surely?

I really do doubt Amarr will turn away the "unwilling", so what happens to those?

Be careful, I smell hypocrisy around the corner.


You are either willfully or unintentionally misunderstanding what has been said. Allow me to try and rephrase it for you.

They are not going to be expected to fake a belief in God in order for the Empire to welcome them. Beign "willingly Reclaimed' involves living in the colonies established for them, beside their caretakers and accepting the hospitality of the Empire - which involves being surrounded by those who practice the Amarr faith and will educate them in it.

I reiterate: sanctuary in the Empire is not dependent upon a pronouncement of faith according to this announcement. The Empire is offering sanctuary regardless of their faith or lack thereof as long as they are willing to submit themselves to the laws and governing of the Empire.

Those that refuse to live by the laws and governing of the Empire will endure the same fate as anyone who breaks Imperial law within Imperial borders, which might include slavery. These would be those who are "unwilling" as you refer to them.
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#13 - 2013-03-18 17:16:23 UTC
Before any of the clone soldiers take the Amarr up on this, I suggest they read this:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Reclaiming

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#14 - 2013-03-18 17:17:46 UTC
And there we have the hypocrisy ... It's fine, its the same old argument about what constitutes reclamation, Matari can't be automagically reclaimed because scripture states it, but anyone else can be reclaimed at a drop of a hat even if they don't believe.

Carry on. Lets see how the news story progresses.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-18 17:27:19 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
And there we have the hypocrisy ... It's fine, its the same old argument about what constitutes reclamation, Matari can't be automagically reclaimed because scripture states it, but anyone else can be reclaimed at a drop of a hat even if they don't believe.

Carry on. Lets see how the news story progresses.


Scripture states nothing of the sort regarding the Minmatar.

Anyone who refuses to accept the faith is not considered "reclaimed." There is no hypocrisy here.

Sanctuary does not require faith. Reclaiming does. Those who are willingly Reclaimed are those that willingly open up to the Amarr faith. Reclaiming, as I stated, is a process. Your assertion that a soldier will simply say "I believe in God" and suddenly be "reclaimed" is false, which is what I've been trying to explain to you.

The sanctuary will be offered, regardless. The Reclaiming of those enjoying sanctuary will begin. Those that willingly accept the Amarr faith and demonstrate such acceptance will not endure slavery. Those that refuse will endure whatever manner of Reclaiming is deemed suitable to the situation. How is this hypocrisy? How is this deception?
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#16 - 2013-03-18 17:34:50 UTC
So there will be a period of time (how many generations?) before they are declared reclaimed, yes? Which is faith based, yes? So, those that still want sanctuary but not the faith will endure what? ... The same fate as the Matari?

Of course you don't see the hypocrisy, the hypocrite never does.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#17 - 2013-03-18 17:42:33 UTC
Kares Shahzu wrote:
Scripture states nothing of the sort regarding the Minmatar.


Really? You sure about that? The scriptures may not be explicit in saying "Thou shal't go reclaim the Minmatar", but scripture is used for the reason for enslaving the Matari.

I'm no theologian of course.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-03-18 17:51:26 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
So there will be a period of time (how many generations?) before they are declared reclaimed, yes? Which is faith based, yes? So, those that still want sanctuary but not the faith will endure what? ... The same fate as the Matari?


No, their "fate" will not be the same unless they walk the same path. I cannot say how long the period would be, it is different for each individual and each people. I cannot even say if there will be a "period" as we know it, that will be for those in such positions to determine.

Astroyka wrote:
Of course you don't see the hypocrisy, the hypocrite never does.


"1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude."

You accuse me of hypocrisy without knowing me, that is an injustice on your part. There are, perhaps, some hypocrites within the Empire but that is not my place to judge. I can only attest that not everyone in the Empire is a hypocrite and there is nothing hypocritical about the offer the Empire has made.
Kares Shahzu
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-03-18 17:53:27 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
Kares Shahzu wrote:
Scripture states nothing of the sort regarding the Minmatar.


Really? You sure about that? The scriptures may not be explicit in saying "Thou shal't go reclaim the Minmatar", but scripture is used for the reason for enslaving the Matari.

I'm no theologian of course.


No, the Scriptures are not the justification for enslavement of the Minmatar. They are the justification for the Reclaiming. Enslavement is a process of the Reclamation chosen and instituted by the Amarr and the Empire, not the Scriptures.
There are passages that could be argued to be in support of slavery, but the actual institution of slavery is not outlined in the Scriptures.
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#20 - 2013-03-18 17:56:17 UTC
Don't take it personal, other than you being an Amarr and part of the bigger issue. I'm used to deaf ears on such matters of Reclaiming, God and the scriptures. Blind belief will always lead to a hypocritical path, its inevitable.

As stated before, lets see how the news story plays out. Weather I'm right or wrong, time will tell.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

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