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Vargur.

Author
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1 - 2013-02-10 16:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
I have question for CCP or anyone that have some insight of the matter at hand,

It is about Vargur and huge difference that ship have in fittng t2 weapons unlike rest of marauders.

Picture examples below:

Paladin

Kronos

Vargur

Now to recap

Vargur is t2 ship that cant fit its t2 weapons..only one that cant,i would like to know reasoning in this what is so utterly different about this ship that is making it so OP or whatever it is that warrant such horrible gimp in ship PG?

Remember we are talking PG rig + ~600-700 mill in implants just to fail to fit guns?

I mean i would take 700mill in implants to fit the ship(not rly i still dont understand the need),but at least it would be passable as any other ship.

Give me yours thoughts about this.


Edit,generic same fitting used.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

hmskrecik
TransMine Group
#2 - 2013-02-10 17:08:08 UTC
Vargur has 50% falloff bonus, which gives pretty sick range to autocannons. Use them.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-10 17:37:03 UTC
has anyone mentioned to you that an AC vargur gets the same sort of range in falloff that an AM using rail kronos gets in optimal?

also shield tanked paladin?
fit tachys and a LAR

otherwise yes the vargur cannot fit the largest t2 guns without help.. there are a few ships like this
T2 tachys to t1 bs,
a few of the t2 artiy ships

so wat?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#4 - 2013-02-10 17:51:56 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Vargur has 50% falloff bonus, which gives pretty sick range to autocannons. Use them.


Awesome that rly doesn't explain why is it completely useless with long range configuration like other marauders,more to the point any other ship that have falloff bonus don't suffer pg gimp ie it can fit both type of weapons..like machariel and even basic t1 non pirate ships.

Also your comment shred non light on an issue here,and issue is why?

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#5 - 2013-02-10 17:58:06 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
has anyone mentioned to you that an AC vargur gets the same sort of range in falloff that an AM using rail kronos gets in optimal?

also shield tanked paladin?
fit tachys and a LAR

otherwise yes the vargur cannot fit the largest t2 guns without help.. there are a few ships like this
T2 tachys to t1 bs,
a few of the t2 artiy ships

so wat?


Not rly it don't,rail kroni will do more dps as well as AM is not only ammo it can use and by then your point is irrelevant.(like try to hit something with ac @ 200km)

I can understand t1 ship that cant fit t2 but we are talking marauders and huge difference in fitting ie while u can use both config on rest of em u cant on Vargur why?

So what? rly

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#6 - 2013-02-10 18:01:06 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Vargur has 50% falloff bonus, which gives pretty sick range to autocannons. Use them.


Awesome that rly doesn't explain why is it completely useless with long range configuration like other marauders,more to the point any other ship that have falloff bonus don't suffer pg gimp ie it can fit both type of weapons..like machariel and even basic t1 non pirate ships.

Also your comment shred non light on an issue here,and issue is why?


Pretty sure 4.2 optimal/70km falloff doesn't count as not long ranged even if your damage decreases in falloff
Kasutra
No Vacancies
Wardec Mechanics
#7 - 2013-02-10 18:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasutra
The Vargur has bonuses singly and obviously favoring one of the racial weapon gun systems - in this case being the short range weapons. The Golem does this too, if you want to compare to other races. Not that I recommend that comparison. The Kronos and the Paladin are kind of similar to one another, but the Vargur and the Golem are different beasts entirely.

If you really really want to fit cross-bonus and start blapping with an Artillery Vargur, put on an RCU and fit 1200mms. You have the option. You could also put Cruises on a Golem. It's just a bad idea.

I'd say this was a problem were the AC Vargur not such a perfectly fine boat.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#8 - 2013-02-10 18:11:42 UTC
you could and you cant are two different matter i am sure you understand this.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Kasutra
No Vacancies
Wardec Mechanics
#9 - 2013-02-10 18:13:26 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
you could and you cant are two different matter i am sure you understand this.

Yes, I do. Do you understand that you can fit Artillery to your Vargur?
Orlacc
#10 - 2013-02-10 18:15:59 UTC
Who would use artis on a Vargur?

This is like complaining a Mael doesn't hold as many drones as a Domi.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#11 - 2013-02-10 18:17:01 UTC
If you took time to look at pic linked you will understand that i cant without destroying the ship..also comparing 1200mm to 1400mm is..there is no comparison and even then for the sake of argument why RCU?

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#12 - 2013-02-10 18:18:53 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Who would use artis on a Vargur?

This is like complaining a Mael doesn't hold as many drones as a Domi.

Because it is spaceship like rest of marauders that can thats why..it is like you asked me why people use arty boats in pve or pvp..and i lost you at dominix remark completely

Also you didn't answer my question ie u dont know why.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-02-10 19:19:56 UTC
Can you explain the reasoning behind the paladin fitting that you linked there? its lacking in its racial tank type and you would note that tach fits there also kind of dont work.

however, there are fittings that you can do to fit 1400mm aritlleries, that reach 200km. with t2 gear (before implants)
are you arguing that a ship does more dps at any given range then another? or that a fitting is possible/not possible? I cant really tell what your issue is anymore
other then you dont like to fit vargurs intelligently.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

stoicfaux
#14 - 2013-02-10 19:30:56 UTC
With such a huge falloff bonus, it's obvious that the ship designers were focused on ACs, therefore having the powergrid to mount artillery wasn't a requirement. /rp

Given the reduced DPS of artillery, I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with artillery on a Vargur, unless there was some need for an alpha strike?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#15 - 2013-02-10 19:37:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
stoicfaux wrote:
With such a huge falloff bonus, it's obvious that the ship designers were focused on ACs, therefore having the powergrid to mount artillery wasn't a requirement. /rp

Given the reduced DPS of artillery, I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with artillery on a Vargur, unless there was some need for an alpha strike?



Can u tell the same thing about mach?

You are correct Arty is Alpha and if you took any situation except decade old pve missions where mindless red dots without tank,tactics,rr or booster are crawling toward you to get killed..then Arty boats become needed and very much effective

Like pvp and wh content as well as incursions where arty boats are staple ship in all reality.

Marauders are lacking because eve moved past wow stile missions to certain extent and they(marauders) stayed at that lvl and Vargur...Vargur have another problem...Vargur just cant.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-02-10 19:40:50 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Vargur just cant.


what?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#17 - 2013-02-10 19:42:02 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Can you explain the reasoning behind the paladin fitting that you linked there? its lacking in its racial tank type and you would note that tach fits there also kind of dont work.

however, there are fittings that you can do to fit 1400mm aritlleries, that reach 200km. with t2 gear (before implants)
are you arguing that a ship does more dps at any given range then another? or that a fitting is possible/not possible? I cant really tell what your issue is anymore
other then you dont like to fit vargurs intelligently.


What doesn't work it can fit em ,it is not for stock missioning.

i just use same mods to make comparison it can be rr and can do rr.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-02-10 20:44:51 UTC
[Vargur, Vargur fit]

Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Not that i would ever actually try to use tihs fitting, it does indeed "work"
Locks to 224 km 6927volley w 418 dps @124 + 85.3 km using temor

I still dont know what you are complaining about.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#19 - 2013-02-10 20:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
you are wasting 3 slots on pg that's terrible,you are missing at least 2 tracking mods,you dont have dmg control/extenders and u will got alphad and everybody will laugh.


And why you dont have dose things...because you are wasting slots on PG mods!!

And you clearly dont know about what i am talking about.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

stoicfaux
#20 - 2013-02-10 21:39:31 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
you are wasting 3 slots on pg that's terrible,you are missing at least 2 tracking mods,you dont have dmg control/extenders and u will got alphad and everybody will laugh.


And why you dont have dose things...because you are wasting slots on PG mods!!

And you clearly dont know about what i am talking about.

So... you're talking about using a PvE focused boat in PvP. Or you're maybe you're talking about using a Vargur instead of a Mach in PvP, because the Vargur is cheaper? Or you're just adding new assumptions/criteria to your OP as we go along to either troll everyone or just make yourself look less than intelligent?

Meh.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

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