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CSM 8 - Vote for yourself, choose direct democracy and Night Beagle

First post First post
Author
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#1 - 2013-02-07 10:06:22 UTC
I have posted my announcement in Jita Park Speakers Corner and chose to open this topic as I am a WH dweller and more inclined to have WH life as refference and way of play..

My initial statement, followed by some explanations is below.

Quote:
Take back your voice in the CSM!

CCP has offered us a representative system to voice our desires and concerns. Votes are cast for individual platforms proposing several game improvements favorable to our community. The people behind that platforms might deliver or not, and the trust put behind them is usually reflected in the number of votes.

I am giving you something different.

With the advent of new technologies, steps to to make your every vote count, steps toward direct democracy can be taken.
I am giving you the system of Liquid Democracy, where every player can directly vote for every single issue put or to be put forward in the CSM. In simple words, an electronic voting system that allows direct votes or every topic, but also includes the possibility to delegate votes.

This system responds to the very core of game life: true freedom

Whether you are one individual that is concerned about the future of EVE, a corp CEO or alliance leader, you can vote for every single issue instead of being offered just limited consultations.

One player one vote. You trust the alliance or corp leader, then let him have your vote in the system.

You trust somebody else? Vote for me and you can then let the best people voice your concerns!

This way alliance leaders and good players will keep doing what they do best, while me as your CSM representative will be just your voice, with have clear support in voicing com unity concerns to CCP.


Choose yourself for CSM representative!

Vote Night Beagle for CSM!


For now I have only three statements to make:

- I live, play, have fun in WH's. My game is pew
- I will install and run my own Liquid Democracy server to be used by the community
- I am available to participate in any debate, via forum, ingame, live or registered podcasts. Although I carefully watch the forums, please contact me if interested in my views.






The world needs you to stop being boring!

Rek Seven
Galactic Deep Space Industries
Warped Intentions
#2 - 2013-02-07 10:26:40 UTC
Jesus, how many more candidates are going to crawl from the woodwork?
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-07 10:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Borlag Crendraven
While it's all nice and good that you'd try and represent everyone based on what the votes say, that doesn't really tell anything about your own credentials. Tell us why you would be the best candidate to voice our thoughts and ideas? Tell us what are your own thoughts on what areas of the game need improving and how would you go about fixing them? Tell us what you would do if a vote would go against your own opinion in an issue that you consider extremely important? Can you still objectively go against your own thoughts and still push for that opposing issue?

In short, please give us at least one good reason to vote for you. Selling your opinion based on the votes really isn't one.
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
#4 - 2013-02-07 10:43:30 UTC
Can i run for the CSM too?

I like cold countries!

/P

 ♥ 

Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#5 - 2013-02-07 10:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Durzel
I don't really think this idea can work. On the one hand it's an interesting idea that you would crowdsource all of your opinions, but the reality is that when you're in CSM meetings you're not going to be able to canvass opinion or contribute properly unless you have a clear and unambiguous stance going in.

It's not like you can ask them to pause the meeting while you find out what your opinion should be based on the public vote, and the chances are any vote is only going to be meaningful with a significant number of WH dwellers participating, which will take time, awareness and motivation. Without that the "WH consensus" is only going to be as accurate as your time and patience permits.

tl;dr: Your idea, whilst different and well intended, won't work in practice.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-02-07 11:18:20 UTC
will you be taking part in the wh primaries as most are or will you be ignoring these and running regardless?
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#7 - 2013-02-07 13:27:36 UTC
@corbexx I consider that all platforms should be tested before and I will take the opportunity to participate in the primaries. I intend to win by proving that the best way for the community proposals is crowdsourcing and that the current type of managing the community input is failing.

@Durzel The apparent fluidity of CSM discussions is being made useless by the CCP interaction with them. I strongly believe that a CSM member should raise the issues identified by the community and any answer can be prepared in advance.
The direct democracy idea worked in ancient Greece where citizens decided on the city issues. The need for a representative democracy arisen apparently when the option of consulting the population on multiple times or on a shirt notice was considered unfeasible. We now have the Internet as base for tools that allow enormous number of people to interact with reasonable speed.
From my point of view, running for CSM is not a job interview, nor a political option. The community does not chooses the brightest mind for a specific task (as no test is being administrated) or the best political platform, as nothing else but relaying of message can be done in relation with CCP. More, the number of votes given to any candidate is not a guarantee of community reaction to specific issues, a problem that can be easily solved by my proposal.

@Borlag Crendraven I choose to adopt a different mindset and deviate from the savior/leader/know it all stereotype. I have a minimum set of skills that qualify me to participate in the elections from CCP point of view, time and resources to do what I propose, RL qualifications to raise up to the task and traits to make it work. To be put into practice my proposal require a person that has the flexibility to understand technical aspects, use the knowledge of the community and not be involved in a partisan way in a specific type of gameplay.
If this counts for you, I am European, lawyer and consultant in IT policies, and English is not my primary language.

@trolls Keep it going and do not forget to vote for yourselves :)

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Doc Hollidai
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#8 - 2013-02-07 14:34:43 UTC
WH CSM candidates have always come from relevant corps in one way or another. Please explain how your corp still satisfies such.
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#9 - 2013-02-07 14:37:08 UTC
@Doc Hollidai Please define the term relevant corps.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#10 - 2013-02-07 14:51:14 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:

The direct democracy idea worked in ancient Greece where citizens decided on the city issues.


I heartily support your approach, especially since, as with the greeks, I am going to assume voting will be restricted to high class (c5 or better?) males (never trust a woman's opinion) in pvp corps (Athenian voting required a background of military service.)

:thumbsup:
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-07 14:56:05 UTC
Based on your answer, which pretty much said "I fill the minimum requirements, vote for me", I highly doubt you'd get any votes at all outside your own circle of friends. Selling your opinion based on what majority wants is never a good idea, especially in cases where you simply don't even have the luxury of waiting for the majority decision. Do you really think you can open up a vote in the middle of a CSM meeting and base your opinion on that? There's a thing called non-disclosure agreemement, which might or might not be familiar to you, considering you say you're a lawyer. While I'm sure that qualifies you more than properly for a poiticians job, it does anything but qualify you as the voice of the people.

-1.
Doc Hollidai
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#12 - 2013-02-07 15:11:48 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
@Doc Hollidai Please define the term relevant corps.



I will leave the definition up to you, but every other WH CSM candidate readily fills any definition of such. Explain how you do.


Furthermore, the role of CSM is to involve the player base to help guide CCP when they are faltering. If you simply wish to allow the player base, whom you would claim to represent, to vote on every issue, why then do we need you?
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#13 - 2013-02-07 17:55:02 UTC
Doc Hollidai
Quote:
why then do we need you?

You don't. I'll explain below.

@Borlag Crendraven @Doc Hollidai @Tisisan
You asked the reasons to vote for one candidate or another, thus implying a comparison of some sort. Am I taller, smarter, better looking, better literate or a smother talker? Is this in anyway relevant for the discussion? Am I or am I not is pointles to even try discerning, but I think the asking that questions it helps to determine the roles we play on the election stage.
It seems like a measuring competition, and might be in some cases, but we discuss in a false dichotomy. There should be no split between the candidates and the community, as the real parties are CCP and us.
Maybe some prefer the type of candidate that promise to change EVE and ensure a happy and bug-less gaming for everyone. Maybe others feel they need a better person, in whatever way you can think off, to take split second decisions and provide them a better gaming environment.
I cannot promise to be that person, in fact I am not here to offer you something, but to rock your boat and show that you do not "need" anyone.
CSM is not a almighty decision body that makes or breaks the game in a meeting. It is in fact a slow moving wheel in a mechanism that might or might not be used by CCP.
I am running to put you in charge, to wake you up and give you responsibility. To make you all that Greek citizen with a voting right.


The world needs you to stop being boring!

Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-07 18:05:59 UTC
We don't need a democracy. That's a terrible idea. Besides, CCP doesn't work like that anyways.. you can't just say well they voted for this, this is what they want! The wormhole CSM's job in my opinion is preventing wormhole space from receiving any life altering/controversial changes. That means the wormhole csm should already have a feel for what the community wants and can advocate on the majorities behalf.
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2013-02-07 18:08:31 UTC
with less then a year in WH space, and coming from a corp that has really only been in c5 space how do you plan to represent the group that you will have very little knowledge about? also in your system why don't i just send a computer and cut out the middle man
WInter Borne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-02-07 18:08:35 UTC
Tisisan wrote:
Night Beagle wrote:

The direct democracy idea worked in ancient Greece where citizens decided on the city issues.


I heartily support your approach, especially since, as with the greeks, I am going to assume voting will be restricted to high class (c5 or better?) males (never trust a woman's opinion) in pvp corps (Athenian voting required a background of military service.)

:thumbsup:

I too support this.
Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2013-02-07 18:20:09 UTC
WInter Borne wrote:
Tisisan wrote:
Night Beagle wrote:

The direct democracy idea worked in ancient Greece where citizens decided on the city issues.


I heartily support your approach, especially since, as with the greeks, I am going to assume voting will be restricted to high class (c5 or better?) males (never trust a woman's opinion) in pvp corps (Athenian voting required a background of military service.)

:thumbsup:

I too support this.



so need to have combat on the resume to vote .. cool I support this

now we need a new candidate

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=692598

cause this one needs to go back to basic
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#18 - 2013-02-07 18:25:58 UTC
@Casirio
Quote:
We don't need a democracy

In fact we do not need to pretend to have elections but as you said CCP decided this way :)
In EVE we have clear reflections of the way human society organizes itself: dictatorships, meritocracy, democracy and even anarchy. What is the best system? ...

@Phaderift
You your question is in line with the one put by Doc Hollidai, however more informed and less diplomatic :)
My knowledge about EVE is the one of a 2 year old player and the interaction with others is making me confident I got what it is needed. Strange that you mention C5's as one year ago I was in the same C5 as your corp, and in the same alliance, :) however the answer is not in the man, is in the system.

Quote:
in your system why don't i just send a computer and cut out the middle man

Why don't you? This is what I am offering.
I do not need to be the guru of WH space, to be the leader of the largest alliance, have the larges number of friends, be backed by the best PVP players or whatever external factor one may think it makes the man right for the job.
As I stated from the beginning, let the PVP pvp, alliance leaders do their job and electronic systems help us to expres the community views.


The world needs you to stop being boring!

Phaderift
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2013-02-07 18:46:52 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
@Casirio
Quote:
We don't need a democracy

In fact we do not need to pretend to have elections but as you said CCP decided this way :)
In EVE we have clear reflections of the way human society organizes itself: dictatorships, meritocracy, democracy and even anarchy. What is the best system? ...

@Phaderift
You your question is in line with the one put by Doc Hollidai, however more informed and less diplomatic :)
My knowledge about EVE is the one of a 2 year old player and the interaction with others is making me confident I got what it is needed. Strange that you mention C5's as one year ago I was in the same C5 as your corp, and in the same alliance, :) however the answer is not in the man, is in the system.

Quote:
in your system why don't i just send a computer and cut out the middle man

Why don't you? This is what I am offering.
I do not need to be the guru of WH space, to be the leader of the largest alliance, have the larges number of friends, be backed by the best PVP players or whatever external factor one may think it makes the man right for the job.
As I stated from the beginning, let the PVP pvp, alliance leaders do their job and electronic systems help us to expres the community views.





This is not a diplomatic thread this is politics, check friendships, and pleasantries at the door, there is a job to do. What others within the WH community do you interact with? You just returned to WH space some 2 weeks ago and I have heard no mention of you in diplomatic or really any talk with any other WH groups or even from within my own, Due to how the CSM works with the NDA how will you have issues voted on that cannot be mentioned to the public? Members of the CSM are expected to have a level of knowledge about the game that they can present the opinions of their respective electorate on all issues, on the fly. Given your killboard is nearly blank what do you do in game? after 2 years what aspects do you consider yourself well versed in?
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#20 - 2013-02-07 20:00:25 UTC
Quote:
This is not a diplomatic thread this is politics, check friendships, and pleasantries at the door, there is a job to do.


Let agree to disagree :) this is not politics, social networking, or a job. It's having fun while moving pixels on the screen.
It's a place where there are more than one way to skin the cat, and this includes CSM. Whatever big alliance supports one guy, or whatever connections he has now, NDA states that he cannot communicate to one group something that he cannot communicate to everyone.
Therefore this is my platform and advantage: to allow everyone to discuss and push from the community towards CCP the proposals generally agreed. To give everybody the confidence that whatsoever things can be said, they will be said in public and no player group will be treated differently.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

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