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CSM 8 - Elect yourself, choose direct democracy - Night Beagle

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Author
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#1 - 2013-02-07 09:54:10 UTC
Take back your voice in the CSM!

CCP has offered us a representative system to voice our desires and concerns. Votes are cast for individual platforms proposing several game improvements favorable to our community. The people behind that platforms might deliver or not, and the trust put behind them is usually reflected in the number of votes.

I am giving you something different.

With the advent of new technologies, steps to to make your every vote count, steps toward direct democracy can be taken.
I am giving you the system of Liquid Democracy, where every player can directly vote for every single issue put or to be put forward in the CSM. In simple words, an electronic voting system that allows direct votes or every topic, but also includes the possibility to delegate votes.

This system responds to the very core of game life: true freedom

Whether you are one individual that is concerned about the future of EVE, a corp CEO or alliance leader, you can vote for every single issue instead of being offered just limited consultations.

One player one vote. You trust the alliance or corp leader, then let him have your vote in the system.

You trust somebody else? Vote for me and you can then let the best people voice your concerns!

This way alliance leaders and good players will keep doing what they do best, while me as your CSM representative will be just your voice, with have clear support in voicing com unity concerns to CCP.


Choose yourself for CSM representative!

Vote Night Beagle for CSM!

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Singular Snowflake
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#2 - 2013-02-07 10:15:30 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:

With the advent of new technologies, steps to to make your every vote count, steps toward direct democracy can be taken.
I am giving you the system of Liquid Democracy, where every player can directly vote for every single issue put or to be put forward in the CSM. In simple words, an electronic voting system that allows direct votes or every topic, but also includes the possibility to delegate votes.

NDA
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#3 - 2013-02-07 11:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kainotomiu Ronuken
Night Beagle wrote:
I am giving you something different.

What you mean is that you are offering exactly the same platform as almost every other CSM candidate thus far; you promise that you will represent every single EVE player, and you promise to tell us all about it.

Literally the only difference is that you promise a gimmick that will a) not be implemented by CCP and b) be rendered obsolete by the NDA anyway.



In the interests of showing us that you actually have opinions rather than pretending to be a blank slate for the populace of New Eden to urinate all over, could you please provide a critical analysis of this CSM candidate's platform? What do you agree with? Why? What would you change? Why?
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#4 - 2013-02-07 11:10:52 UTC
Also some information on who you are, where you come from and what you do would be helpful in persuading me to choose you over any of the other candidates who promise to act as nothing more than a telephone between the players and CCP.
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#5 - 2013-02-07 13:36:35 UTC
@Singular Snowflake> NDA is just a mean to protect economic interests of CCP. However it is not meant to be an obstacle in getting community input and following it does not exclude general consultations. Also the minimal issues that might be limited by the NDA can receive input from the community if enough participants are already in the system and proposing changes.

@Kainotomiu Ronuken As I stated in another topic, I choose to adopt a different mindset and deviate from the savior/leader/know it all stereotype. We need true community action. From my point of view, running for CSM is not a job interview, nor a political option. The community does not chooses the brightest mind for a specific task (as no test is being administrated) or the best political platform, as nothing else but relaying of message can be done in relation with CCP. More, the number of votes given to any candidate is not a guarantee of community reaction to specific issues, a problem that can be easily solved by my proposal.
I have a minimum set of skills that qualify me to participate in the elections from CCP point of view, time and resources to do what I propose, RL qualifications to raise up to the task and traits to make it work.
If this counts for you, I am European, lawyer and consultant in IT policies, and English is not my primary language.
Also I will not comment on other people platforms or get into a roleplaying/mesianic attitude.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#6 - 2013-02-07 13:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kainotomiu Ronuken
What I'm seeing here is a stubborn refusal to elaborate on why anyone should vote for you over any of the other candidates running on 'increased CSM-player interaction'.

Night Beagle wrote:
NDA is just a mean to protect economic interests of CCP. However it is not meant to be an obstacle in getting community input and following it does not exclude general consultations. Also the minimal issues that might be limited by the NDA can receive input from the community if enough participants are already in the system and proposing changes.

"general consultations" is a bit of a step back from "every player can directly vote for every single issue put or to be put forward in the CSM".

Night Beagle wrote:
I choose to adopt a different mindset and deviate from the savior/leader/know it all stereotype.

May I refer you to the candidacy posts of most of the other CSM candidates in this forum so far? Most of them said exactly the same.

Night Beagle wrote:
From my point of view, running for CSM is not a job interview, nor a political option.

Unfortunately for your campaign, the majority of the community rightfully does see it as a job interview. What can you provide for this community, that means we should employ you as our embassador?

Night Beagle wrote:
I have a minimum set of skills that qualify me to participate in the elections from CCP point of view, time and resources to do what I propose, RL qualifications to raise up to the task and traits to make it work.
If this counts for you, I am European, lawyer and consultant in IT policies, and English is not my primary language.

When I asked who you are and what you do, I meant in EVE. I could hardly care less about your IRL qualifications, because this is an internet spaceship game, so I'm interested in how you fly spaceships.

Night Beagle wrote:
Also I will not comment on other people platforms or get into a roleplaying/mesianic attitude.

When I asked you to comment on James' platform, I was trying to extract some kind of indication of what you personally would push for with CCP. I don't care if you're interested in roleplay or not. I don't imagine very many people do.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#7 - 2013-02-07 16:05:32 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
Also the minimal issues that might be limited by the NDA can receive input from the community if enough participants are already in the system and proposing changes.


If you think there are "minimal issues" covered by the NDA in the CSM process you haven't been paying attention.

Let me make this clear to you:

*Everything* CCP says to the CSM is covered by NDA until it is announced to the public.

A CSM with your platform could literally be replaced by a regular player reading devblog feedback threads and creating some sort of summary.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2013-02-07 16:13:03 UTC
Two step wrote:
Night Beagle wrote:
Also the minimal issues that might be limited by the NDA can receive input from the community if enough participants are already in the system and proposing changes.


If you think there are "minimal issues" covered by the NDA in the CSM process you haven't been paying attention.

Let me make this clear to you:

*Everything* CCP says to the CSM is covered by NDA until it is announced to the public.

A CSM with your platform could literally be replaced by a regular player reading devblog feedback threads and creating some sort of summary.

to be fair that's about a million times better than an issler

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Robert Harrison
Memor Vivo Hodie
#9 - 2013-02-07 16:24:23 UTC
Just gonna leave this here.
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#10 - 2013-02-07 18:11:52 UTC
@Two step

Quote:
*Everything* CCP says


Are we discussing about being a consultant for CCP or somebody to send real feedback to them? A CSM member claiming to speak for players should not only have the votes and limited forum feedback, but to be able to prove that the community is in fact proposing solutions and improvements through him.

Quote:
A CSM with your platform could literally be replaced by a regular player reading devblog feedback threads and creating some sort of summary.

That's the whole point. To get the players power and responsibility thus insuring better feedback for CCP. I strongly believe that all the issues can be solved by allowing more players to participate in the process instead of relying of the minds and goodwill of "representatives".

@Robert Harrison
I do not claim to be the inventor or the sole supporter of direct democracy. The question is: are you ready to take responsibility and vote for yourself?

@Kainotomiu Ronuken
You asked the reasons to vote for one candidate or another, thus implying a comparison of some sort. Am I taller, smarter, better looking, better literate or a smother talker? Is this in anyway relevant for the discussion? Am I or am I not is pointles to even try discerning, but I think the asking that questions it helps to determine the roles we play on the election stage.
It seems like a measuring competition, and might be in some cases, but we discuss in a false dichotomy. There should be no split between the candidates and the community, as the real parties are CCP and us.
Maybe some prefer the type of candidate that promise to change EVE and ensure a happy and bug-less gaming for everyone. Maybe others feel they need a better person, in whatever way you can think off, to take split second decisions and provide them a better gaming environment.
I cannot promise to be that person, in fact I am not here to offer you something, but to rock your boat and show that you do not "need" anyone.
CSM is not a almighty decision body that makes or breaks the game in a meeting. It is in fact a slow moving wheel in a mechanism that might or might not be used by CCP.
I am running to put you in charge, to wake you up and give you responsibility.
What am I dping in game? : living in a WH, enjoying the pixels being blown up, visiting null and LS whenever I got the chance. I did my share of living in HS, trying all kind of gameplay, and settled where I am now. however this is easy to see from my ingame profile.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#11 - 2013-02-07 18:26:17 UTC
I can't believe that you are unable to comprehend that CSM candidates are going to be compared. Last year there were 40 candidates who made it into the final voting round. This year 16 people have already announced their candidacy - almost two months before CCP is likely to even begin thinking about CSM voting season. That's already more than enough to fill all the available seats. Trust me, I am not 'implying a comparison of some sort', I am telling you that you are going to be compared. How else should we choose who to vote for?

Night Beagle wrote:
Are we discussing about being a consultant for CCP or somebody to send real feedback to them? A CSM member claiming to speak for players should not only have the votes and limited forum feedback, but to be able to prove that the community is in fact proposing solutions and improvements through him.

The fundamental flaw in your platform is that we're discussing being a member of the CSM. Your platform is wholly based on doing things that the CSM, in its current iteration, does not have the power to do, and there is no guarantee that you'll be able to persuade CCP to make your platform viable. How can you expect people to vote for you on the off-chance that CCP might implement your idea that will allow people to have one out of four hundred and fifty thousand votes on the possible direction of the game?
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#12 - 2013-02-07 23:42:15 UTC
Night Beagle wrote:
@Two step

Quote:
*Everything* CCP says


Are we discussing about being a consultant for CCP or somebody to send real feedback to them? A CSM member claiming to speak for players should not only have the votes and limited forum feedback, but to be able to prove that the community is in fact proposing solutions and improvements through him.


Are you trying to explain to me what the CSM does? I am honestly confused here. Let me repeat myself: Your idea will not work, because even the *questions* that CCP asks the CSM are covered by the NDA. You *cannot* ask players to vote on things, because they cannot know what the things they would be voting on are. Sometimes you cannot even reveal that the CSM was asked a question at all.

Night Beagle wrote:

Quote:
A CSM with your platform could literally be replaced by a regular player reading devblog feedback threads and creating some sort of summary.

That's the whole point. To get the players power and responsibility thus insuring better feedback for CCP. I strongly believe that all the issues can be solved by allowing more players to participate in the process instead of relying of the minds and goodwill of "representatives".


If you think this, then why bother having a CSM at all? If CCP decides they can tell everyone everything and ask them to vote on it, why bother flying 7 people to Iceland twice a year? Why bother with the NDA?

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Robert Harrison
Memor Vivo Hodie
#13 - 2013-02-07 23:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Harrison
Night Beagle wrote:
@Robert Harrison
I do not claim to be the inventor or the sole supporter of direct democracy. The question is: are you ready to take responsibility and vote for yourself?


I suppose attemting to make my point subtlely wasn't enough. Others have tried "direct democracy" as an engine to get voted in... All of them, to my knowledge, faded into obscurity... I'm sorry, but I don't see this ending any differently.

Besides if wanted to vote for myself, I'd be running for CSM.
Frying Doom
#14 - 2013-02-08 07:28:01 UTC
He missed the main selling point in this opening. he should have just said "NOT James 315"

That should have at least gotten him some votersLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#15 - 2013-02-08 14:56:02 UTC
@Kainotomiu Ronuken and Two Step

I need not to remind everyone that EVE is a game of numbers, and CCP is in business of making money out of it.
By applying a platform like Liquid Feedback, 1 CSM member can quantifiable show community support, thus bringing added value to his position.
You are revolving around the fact that CSM members receive info during meetings and need to take a stance.
I am telling you that taking a stance based on personal impression is wrong. I do not advocate (yet) the use of the system during CSM meetings, but before them, on the biggest number of topics one can identify. In fact it is my opinion that CSM itself could have reduced roles and a Liquid Feedback could be implemented by the CCP to have bigger and better coverage of community feedback.

There is more than one way to skin the cat,

Night Beagle


The world needs you to stop being boring!

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#16 - 2013-02-08 17:25:10 UTC
I think you are missing their point.

The point they are making is that at no point will you be allowed to ask for a vote because CCP is going to have you under an NDA, and will require an answer from you about your opinion within a very short period of time. You will not have the opportunity to run a poll to ask what you should say, as you will not be allowed to reveal what you were asked.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#17 - 2013-02-08 17:27:01 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I think you are missing their point.

The point they are making is that at no point will you be allowed to ask for a vote because CCP is going to have you under an NDA, and will require an answer from you about your opinion within a very short period of time. You will not have the opportunity to run a poll to ask what you should say, as you will not be allowed to reveal what you were asked.

No, he's changed it now. He thinks he's going to ask the community directly about every single imaginable issue and then relay the results to CCP himself. As if CCP didn't read the forums, or anything.
Night Beagle
Beagle Inc
#18 - 2013-02-08 19:03:15 UTC
Did not changed anything. You all started with the assumption that only what is discussed in CSM meetings counts, and those meetings are the endgame. I consider this assumption false and see CSM more than a focus group.
Also forums are one thing, used by a small part of the player community. My proposal brings the advantage of quantifying and involving larger number of players with a concrete result.

The world needs you to stop being boring!

SojournerRover
Explorer Corps
#19 - 2013-02-08 19:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: SojournerRover
It seems to me that when he is elected he runs his pole.

Something like:
What are your main concerns in WH space.
He will have a list of issues that the WH community is concerned with.

The voter logs in and gets to pick 3 choices on the list he feels effects him the most. The list may have a large amount of issues depending on what the WH community thinks.

Then Night Beagle compiles the list and the top 3 with the highest vote margin becomes the main priority. It seems to me three is a good number because you can't tackle everything. And those are the three issues he fights for.

If there are any major changes in the game he can run another pole. Or run one everyone 1 to 3 months.

Thats the way I understand it and I am sure Night Beagle can elaborate or correct me if I am wrong.

[b][u]ROVER[/u] (REDRUM)[/b]

Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#20 - 2013-02-08 19:12:38 UTC
SojournerRover wrote:
It seems to me that when he is elected he runs his pole.

Something like:
What are your main concerns in WH space.
He will have a list of issues that the WH community is concerned with.

The voter logs in and gets to pick 3 choices on the list he feels effects him the most. The list may have a large amount of issues depending on what the WH community thinks.

Then Night Beagle compiles the list and the top 3 with the highest vote margin becomes the main priority. It seems to me three is a good number because you can't tackle everything. And those are the three issues he fights for.

If there are any major changes in the game he can run another pole. Or run one everyone 1 to 3 months.

Thats the way I understand it and I am sure Night Beagle can elaborate or correct me if I am wrong.

And how is this different from the CCP devs just reading the forums? Why would CCP need a CSM candidate to do this? I mean, it'd be them implementing the technology and everything; Night Beagle himself would be completely obsolete.
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