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Crime & Punishment

 
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GM Response On Bumping

First post First post First post
Author
Sulzer Wartzilla
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2013-01-29 18:33:52 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
I simply noted that it seems that it is still legal to implicitly harass someone by setting up bumper gangs in every belt that one person mines in, as long as they target everyone, not just that one individual. Or am I mistaken here?


You are mistaken. If you are reported and we find you actively following around a target without a war to continue bumping a specific player, it will still (at some point) considered harassment, even if you divert your 'attention' a little while doing so. If you have a bone to pick with someone, declare a war and take the risk that your target may actually taste blood and fight back (or finds allies for that part).

On the surface of it, this seems reasonable, but what if said target is in an NPC corp?
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#22 - 2013-01-29 19:00:46 UTC
what about bumping freighters out of grid, so they can gank and loot without being attacked by other players?

isn't that an exploit of the new crimewatch?
Runeme Shilter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-01-29 20:15:46 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
what about bumping freighters out of grid, so they can gank and loot without being attacked by other players?

isn't that an exploit of the new crimewatch?


The other players can just follow the freighter to the next grid and shoot the suspects there... Why must always CCP provide protection/deem things an exploit?
Johan March
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-01-29 20:19:21 UTC
This looks like a good decision.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#25 - 2013-01-29 20:22:14 UTC
Runeme Shilter wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
what about bumping freighters out of grid, so they can gank and loot without being attacked by other players?

isn't that an exploit of the new crimewatch?


The other players can just follow the freighter to the next grid and shoot the suspects there... Why must always CCP provide protection/deem things an exploit?


I'm asking a question about a rules, i'm not stating anything or asking any change.
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-01-29 20:26:40 UTC
Sulzer Wartzilla wrote:

On the surface of it, this seems reasonable, but what if said target is in an NPC corp?


Exactly.

Most of our targets for Code Compliance are miners in NPC corps to prevent wardecs.

We do not chase them once they have left the belts we are Role-Playing in. We don't use locator agents to hound them. We just want them to pay our fee, or stop mining in the area we are patrolling. This area will often comprise two or three ice belt systems we are currently monitoring.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com

Agent Trask
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-01-29 20:30:04 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:


I'm asking a question about a rules, i'm not stating anything or asking any change.


Just a note ... if you drop some objects while being bumped ( frozen corpses are good for this, as most folks don't have them on overview ), the grid will be extended to cover your frieghter well past the normal grid limit. Another option is to anchor small cans as they bump you along.

Look up grid-fu.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com

Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-01-29 21:29:49 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.


Is there a reason why bumping is being singled out here? I was under the impression that you could persistently hunt (kill their ship) people for bounties (either from the UI or informal merc contracts). Spies usually target a corp for a long time period, and I'm pretty sure it's been acceptable to try to re-infiltrate the same corp. If there is a particularly gullible and rich player, scammers will try again and again until the player learns. It seems to me the only thing you can't persistently do after this ruling is bump a specific player who takes the onerous precaution of jumping a couple of systems.


GM Karidor wrote:

If you have a bone to pick with someone, declare a war and take the risk that your target may actually taste blood and fight back (or finds allies for that part).


This assumes that bumping is not a risky activity without war decs and that's not true in my experience. I have had my bumping ship suicide ganked, had many bounties placed on me, and received several war decs. There is the social cost of bumping, as it beaks some social relationships while reinforcing others. To paint bumping as a riskless activity that must be infused with "actual" risk by wardeccing seems off the mark. There's plenty of risk doing pretty much anything in EVE that other people strongly dislike.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#29 - 2013-01-29 21:36:21 UTC
CCP FTW.

The Tears Must Flow

Go2
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-01-30 03:06:03 UTC
You may wish to also clarify that this does not include the new player systems. We don't need people bumping the newbro's.
Heywood Djiblomi
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-01-30 03:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Heywood Djiblomi
GM Karidor wrote:
If you have a bone to pick with someone, declare a war and take the risk that your target may actually taste blood and fight back (or finds allies for that part).


One minor problem: NPC corp. I can't wardec anyone. Lol

...nor can someone in an NPC corp be wardecced. But I know you know that already...
Melody Amatin
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-01-30 04:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Melody Amatin
Go2 wrote:
You may wish to also clarify that this does not include the new player systems. We don't need people bumping the newbro's.


I'm not sure why that would be necessary. The GMs already have a stern blanket policy to cover this; don't screw with people in the rookie systems.
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#33 - 2013-01-30 11:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Saskia
I personally don't understand why people would be petitioning such nonsense. There are ways for avoid this type of tactic being used on you.

An Example: The Stabber in question has a run up on you... You move so that he is no longer going to hit you. Problem solved.

/P

 ♥ 

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#34 - 2013-01-30 11:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
How about bringing mining exhumer and barge HP's down to a sensible level? That way we can forget about this stupid bumping and go back to sucide ganking miners.

Each patch makes this game more like WOW in space but don't worry CCP every step you take away from PVP allows room for another game to fill the void. I hope you are happy when you are left with only high sec bears as they provide zero to the community, fan fest, 3rd party, video content, Dust 315 content. You pandered to the scrubs of eve with the HP buff and it'll catch up with you when the PVP comunity protests at your up coming hauler buff and high sec greif nerf.

CCP this will bite you in the ass real soon, don't even think it's not going to.

I think all of null and low should declare peace for 1 month this summer and declare an unholy war against all of high sec. Huge ganking partys targetting infamous 1+ year pluss npc corp chars, massive market manipulations, Huge PLEX crashes/ Spikes, swamp all hi sec indy slots with 3 month q's.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#35 - 2013-01-30 11:50:22 UTC
Princess Saskia wrote:
I personally don't understand why people would be petitioning such nonsense. There are ways for avoid this type of tactic being used on you.

An Example: The Stabber in question has a run up on you... You move so that he is no longer going to hit you. Problem solved.

/P


Their bots are not that sophisticated.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#36 - 2013-01-30 12:26:03 UTC
Agent Trask wrote:
Sulzer Wartzilla wrote:

On the surface of it, this seems reasonable, but what if said target is in an NPC corp?


Exactly.

Most of our targets for Code Compliance are miners in NPC corps to prevent wardecs.

We do not chase them once they have left the belts we are Role-Playing in. We don't use locator agents to hound them. We just want them to pay our fee, or stop mining in the area we are patrolling. This area will often comprise two or three ice belt systems we are currently monitoring.


Says the NPC Corp member.

(Not that i agree with hiding in NPC Corp But....)
Seriously, if you are going to complain about miners avoiding wardecs by being in NPC corps, you could at least man-up and post with your main.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged
Tactical Supremacy
#37 - 2013-01-30 13:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
How about bringing mining exhumer and barge HP's down to a sensible level? That way we can forget about this stupid bumping and go back to sucide ganking miners.



Rubbish, they are now at a sensible level, sure you cannot easily kill a tanked Skiff / Procurer but how many people actually do fit for tank rather than yield, there are many people out there with Hulks and Mackinaws that are fitted for yield and you can kill them easily, in fact the Hulks are the same as before, easy to kill, go and have a look at those that have been ganked and see the truth in that by looking at the fittings, many have no tanks, yet your whining about it like people whining about bumping, HTFUI!

I am actually mining now, I stopped before because I was sick and tired of mining in a ship with the tank of a wet paper bag, even if I tanked it as much as I could, now I mine ice in a Skiff and ore in a Mackinaw and I fit for tank, if you get a kill on me, you will have to work for it!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Ildryn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-01-30 13:35:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ildryn
GM Karidor wrote:
You are mistaken. If you are reported and we find you actively following around a target without a war to continue bumping a specific player, it will still (at some point) considered harassment, even if you divert your 'attention' a little while doing so. If you have a bone to pick with someone, declare a war and take the risk that your target may actually taste blood and fight back (or finds allies for that part).


Sulzer Wartzilla wrote:
On the surface of it, this seems reasonable, but what if said target is in an NPC corp?


Obviously they are going to patch this.
The patch that actively kicks the miner into a player corp that can be war decced.
Is this patch going to effect all types of NPC corp people? Or just the one you want to war dec?
Would i be able to war dec someone that does missions as well?
If i am wrong here then how can you say its okay to follow people that you are at war with and not the players who cower from player corps?

You can't give us the right to harass players we are at war with but then exclude the thousands of people who avoid wars.
Keisha Mei Ash
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-01-30 14:22:26 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
How about bringing mining exhumer and barge HP's down to a sensible level? That way we can forget about this stupid bumping and go back to sucide ganking miners.

Each patch makes this game more like WOW in space but don't worry CCP every step you take away from PVP allows room for another game to fill the void. I hope you are happy when you are left with only high sec bears as they provide zero to the community, fan fest, 3rd party, video content, Dust 315 content. You pandered to the scrubs of eve with the HP buff and it'll catch up with you when the PVP comunity protests at your up coming hauler buff and high sec greif nerf.

CCP this will bite you in the ass real soon, don't even think it's not going to.

I think all of null and low should declare peace for 1 month this summer and declare an unholy war against all of high sec. Huge ganking partys targetting infamous 1+ year pluss npc corp chars, massive market manipulations, Huge PLEX crashes/ Spikes, swamp all hi sec indy slots with 3 month q's.

Sweet! A butthurt ganker! Thanks man, you just made my morning.

It's okay, now you actually have to WORK to kill people that don't want to fight back.
Kimo Khan
The IN-Famous
#40 - 2013-01-30 14:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimo Khan
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Princess Saskia wrote:
I personally don't understand why people would be petitioning such nonsense. There are ways for avoid this type of tactic being used on you.

An Example: The Stabber in question has a run up on you... You move so that he is no longer going to hit you. Problem solved.

/P


Their bots are not that sophisticated.


True bots cannot do anything, but neither can a 100mps barge. I got bumped from a gate while trying to make a run for it . Even while trying got bumped 30km from the gate. It was a rather nice bump and the attackers earned a nice kill, but to say that you can always avoid this is utter non-sense.

I don't have a problem with bumping. I have a problem with bumpers used in conjunction with a gank event, them selves not being flagged for assisting the crime. This does not mean flag all bumpers, only the ones who bumped within 10 seconds of a gank being committed against said bumpee. If I can petition for the kill right on said bumper, then that works for me.

Edit: My whole complaint is not being able to take revenge personally on the bumper (who assisted a gank) without being concorded.