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Improving the FW system (my ideas)
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Sir Prometeus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-21 03:24:13 UTC
I have shared my thoughs in several threads, but I want to make a summary of the most interesting and also adding new ones


T1 militias

- In order to help militias who reached the T1 level to recover from their situation (due to lack of active/quality players)

"Bonus to the speed capturing systems (nothing to do with LP, just the progress bar and maybe the HP of the I-Hub)"
T1 highest speed >T2>T3......>T5 (slowest)


- In order to spread the amount of players between systems and encourage a lot of small fights everywhere:

* A system should be able to become vulnerable within a day. The amount of plexes remain the same, but the % each one adds or deducts from the progress bar must be much bigger. A lonely pilot must be able to cap a system in 4h or so. And a group doing every plex at the same time (2 or 3 plexes) should need between 1h and 2h.

*System alert: Once the capture status reaches the 50%, there should be some kind of alert to the enemy militia so everybody goes as fast as they can to defend. it could be through the faction warfare window, and the neocom icon blinking to avoid the spam in everyone's evemail. These systems also will be marked in orange (not in red like the vulnerable/captured systems)

* The system changes owner as soon as the old I-hub is destroyed. There is no need to wait for the DT. However, there should be a cooldown of a couple of hours between sovereignty changes
Wey'oun
#2 - 2012-12-21 07:35:09 UTC
Eve players are terrible game designers..

All those sugguestions seem designed to boost the farming/care bear side of FW. it is meant to be PVP primarilly remember that.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#3 - 2012-12-21 09:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hidden Snake
Wey'oun wrote:
Eve players are terrible game designers..

All those sugguestions seem designed to boost the farming/care bear side of FW. it is meant to be PVP primarilly remember that.


in general this

STOP THE FARMVILLE ..... in that moment u will have FW again about pvp not pve.

Tier system is the thing that harms the system.

Rest is getting quite fine. Actually plexes are now pretty apealing combined with crimewatch.
Opera Noir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-12-21 10:28:16 UTC
Faction Warfare or: How I Learned to Stop Plexing and Love the Guns
Dan Carter Murray
#5 - 2012-12-21 11:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Dan Carter Murray
Make wzcontrol based on #of systems.
:sarcasmstare: Also last system for a militia has death star ihub with doomsday and perfect tracking weapons that hit for 10x max dmg and has 20x shields/armor
Then g fkn g.


Edit: oh yeah and 90% of regular gains for t1. Okay i'd take 80%

Edit 2: on second thought, make 2 tiers based on a wzcontrol based on #ofsystems: winning and losing. Winning gets 10% lp gains, losers get 10% decrease gains.
:trollstare: Losers also get to mute non fw players from local and lock out EVERYONE from one enemy station each day based in a vote.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#6 - 2012-12-21 11:31:51 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Make wzcontrol based on #of systems.
:sarcasmstare: Also last system for a militia has death star ihub with doomsday and perfect tracking weapons that hit for 10x max dmg and has 20x shields/armor
Then g fkn g.


Edit: oh yeah and 90% of regular gains for t1. Okay i'd take 80%

Edit 2: on second thought, make 2 tiers based on a wzcontrol based on #ofsystems: winning and losing. Winning gets 10% lp gains, losers get 10% decrease gains.
:trollstare: Losers also get to mute non fw players from local and lock out EVERYONE from one enemy station each day based in a vote.



stop pveing .... and roleplaying ... things like this destroyed the ballance of FW in past .....
Sir Prometeus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-21 13:16:07 UTC
Wey'oun wrote:
Eve players are terrible game designers..

All those sugguestions seem designed to boost the farming/care bear side of FW. it is meant to be PVP primarilly remember that.


I don't know how you get that conclusion of my post. These changes are focused on making solar systems more vulnerable if you don't protect them. These changes have nothing to do with the LP gain. I want to scatter people among the systems so they will be fighting in many places at the same time.

If you are too lazy to defend your systems, it's your fault, not the game's.
Matopicus
Blackwell Mining
#8 - 2012-12-21 15:35:07 UTC
I think the problem is just people... it's been mentioned over and over in this thread but keeps getting ignored. There needs to be a way to reduce the blob sizes so that the factions with fewer players have more enjoyment out of FW otherwise it doesn't matter what CCP changes because the problem will always be simply people.

One sided fights like 40 to 20 are just simply not attractive and wont get people to join FW. That's the very reason i left and several people i know left RvB, after a while you just feel like your wasting your time and it's a mindless sacrifice, kinda like the moth to the light. "Don't know why i'm flying in this fleet, oh look at the pretty blob, must get closer." ... pop! ... reship - repeat over and over and over again. There is no real tactics because there is no real chance for the small gang and that's all some factions can put out. Sure the small gang can go flip a system .. yay me i was able to join a PvP fleet and we went and ran some PvE plex... wtf thats not why you join FW.

Also the OP suggestions aren't going to solve the problem. sure you'll spread out the plexers/farmers but it doesn't address the blobs and the lack of a good fights for those factions that can't put out blobs of players.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#9 - 2012-12-21 18:16:35 UTC
Matopicus wrote:
I think the problem is just people... it's been mentioned over and over in this thread but keeps getting ignored. There needs to be a way to reduce the blob sizes so that the factions with fewer players have more enjoyment out of FW otherwise
Like, perhaps, basing further away from the main front lines?
Matopicus
Blackwell Mining
#10 - 2012-12-21 18:45:08 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Matopicus wrote:
I think the problem is just people... it's been mentioned over and over in this thread but keeps getting ignored. There needs to be a way to reduce the blob sizes so that the factions with fewer players have more enjoyment out of FW otherwise
Like, perhaps, basing further away from the main front lines?


They could make them all equal to some degree but as the 'front line' changes your still going to have some factions further away, I think they do need to revisit the base of operations for all four factions and bring them all into alignment but again as systems exchange hands your still going to end up with one or two that will always be further away from the new front lines then the other two.

Personally i don't know that this is currently a huge problem. yes minmitar if i'm not mistaken got the short end of the stick here but i don't know that it's a deciding factor for people to engage in FW. Personally if i have a choice of taking on a blob with 2 - 1 odds or a gang brawl 1 - 1 odds but it's 3 - 4 jumps further away. I'll take the even odds and the additional jumps even if they're through hostile space.

Now again not disagree that there is room for improvement on FW base of operations for all four factions. I just don't think it's a deciding factor for people joining and becoming more interested in FW.
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-21 19:30:30 UTC
Wey'oun wrote:
Eve players are terrible game designers..

All those sugguestions seem designed to boost the farming/care bear side of FW. it is meant to be PVP primarilly remember that.



As soon as you take away the PVE element, myself, along with thousands of other pilots will leave FW....and it can be a dead half uses "feature" just like before

I need a way to make isk, I hate running missions in high sec, with FW I wont have access to null sec anoms, I dont want to fly my alt that is crap skilled for pvp, or anything really

I do 1 or 2 days of PVE to earn a decent wage, and spend 2-3 days of fleets and pvp.... ( I dont play for 1 -2 days, I like my family)

its fun...its the first time I have had fun in EVE in a long time


If someone wants to just PVE all the time, go for it, I will still chase them from plexes and I have fun with that

If someone wants to PVP all the time, go for it! What do you care about system control, LP payouts etc if you just want to do pure PVP and buy plex for ISK or use some market alt in jita to make all your isk?


FW is setup so that a lot of play sytles can have fun together, and that lower skillpoint pilots can have a role as well

It is the best system CCP has made in EVE
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-21 20:00:18 UTC
Matopicus wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Matopicus wrote:
I think the problem is just people... it's been mentioned over and over in this thread but keeps getting ignored. There needs to be a way to reduce the blob sizes so that the factions with fewer players have more enjoyment out of FW otherwise
Like, perhaps, basing further away from the main front lines?


They could make them all equal to some degree but as the 'front line' changes your still going to have some factions further away, I think they do need to revisit the base of operations for all four factions and bring them all into alignment but again as systems exchange hands your still going to end up with one or two that will always be further away from the new front lines then the other two.

Personally i don't know that this is currently a huge problem. yes minmitar if i'm not mistaken got the short end of the stick here but i don't know that it's a deciding factor for people to engage in FW. Personally if i have a choice of taking on a blob with 2 - 1 odds or a gang brawl 1 - 1 odds but it's 3 - 4 jumps further away. I'll take the even odds and the additional jumps even if they're through hostile space.

Now again not disagree that there is room for improvement on FW base of operations for all four factions. I just don't think it's a deciding factor for people joining and becoming more interested in FW.



Anyone can base out of any of the systems you control......or in a lot of the highsec systems one jump out from many places ont he edge of the warzone if you dont want to risk your station hanger........ how does CCP have any control, or why would they take any control, of where FW members base out of?
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-12-21 20:04:50 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Make wzcontrol based on #of systems.
:sarcasmstare: Also last system for a militia has death star ihub with doomsday and perfect tracking weapons that hit for 10x max dmg and has 20x shields/armor
Then g fkn g.


Edit: oh yeah and 90% of regular gains for t1. Okay i'd take 80%

Edit 2: on second thought, make 2 tiers based on a wzcontrol based on #ofsystems: winning and losing. Winning gets 10% lp gains, losers get 10% decrease gains.
:trollstare: Losers also get to mute non fw players from local and lock out EVERYONE from one enemy station each day based in a vote.



stop pveing .... and roleplaying ... things like this destroyed the ballance of FW in past .....



The only balance you had in the past was that no one did it....... this is the peak of FW and one of the best ways to play EVE

All I see is this ego from people that think they are better cuz they only PVP, Well 80% of EVE likes to PVE once in awhile or more.....get over it

Things like pure PVP, no isk rewards, no way to sustain your income to fight is what ruined FW in the past
Matopicus
Blackwell Mining
#14 - 2012-12-21 20:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Matopicus
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:

Anyone can base out of any of the systems you control......or in a lot of the highsec systems one jump out from many places ont he edge of the warzone if you dont want to risk your station hanger........ how does CCP have any control, or why would they take any control, of where FW members base out of?


Well there are systems that have turned into FW hubs. You are 100% correct that people can base out of many different systems many of which will put you right smack in the middle of the action regardless of where it's at. But when talking about "base of operations" i think it was assumed (yes by myself) that we were referring to these FW hubs that are all pretty much player driven, and normally in high sec right on the edge of the FW systems that are fought over all the time. (eg ichoriya)

But again i agree with you and that's a large part of why i was saying that i don't think it'll make that much of a difference overall when people are deciding on joining FW or not. The overall underlying problem is that it's not going to help get more people to join the factions that are to small to field blobs.

However i think what Gallentius was trying to point out was that having good systems for these FW hubs can increase player activity in some systems.
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-21 20:29:42 UTC
Matopicus wrote:
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:

Anyone can base out of any of the systems you control......or in a lot of the highsec systems one jump out from many places ont he edge of the warzone if you dont want to risk your station hanger........ how does CCP have any control, or why would they take any control, of where FW members base out of?


Well there are systems that have turned into FW hubs. You are 100% correct that people can base out of many different systems many of which will put you right smack in the middle of the action regardless of where it's at. But when talking about "base of operations" i think it was assumed (yes by myself) that we were referring to these FW hubs that are all pretty much player driven, and normally in high sec right on the edge of the FW systems that are fought over all the time. (eg ichoriya)

But again i agree with you and that's a large part of why i was saying that i don't think it'll make that much of a difference overall when people are deciding on joining FW or not. The overall underlying problem is that it's not going to help get more people to join the factions that are to small to field blobs.

However i think what Gallentius was trying to point out was that having good systems for these FW hubs can increase player activity in some systems.



Ichoyria is a good system, good mission hub, that would be a decent market added in with FW pilots as well (have no lived up there since i was a mission runner)

Some ways to improve FW would be to help reduce the pure farm alts (its not possible) and to bring pilots together, working together

1) 0.1+ Faction Standings to join any FW or any FW corp, No more switching sides without a lot of work on your standings

2) Tax LP gains..... if you are in TLF 24th etc you loose 11% of your LP gains to an NPC tax.....this helps push pilots to flying with corps, or making there own, much like they did with High Sec mission runners

Corp taxes take a cut of FW LPs...... if my corp tax is 5% right now, they dont get anything, im plexing, or PVPing, its worthless..... that 5% should be given as LPs to the corp.....each time I do a novice plex the corp gains 500 LP, i get 9,500 (Of course taxes can be changed just like now)

This allows FW corps to make isk, and have ship replacement programs, build POSs and fuel them, and to do other things
Matopicus
Blackwell Mining
#16 - 2012-12-21 20:37:11 UTC
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:


Ichoyria is a good system, good mission hub, that would be a decent market added in with FW pilots as well (have no lived up there since i was a mission runner)

Some ways to improve FW would be to help reduce the pure farm alts (its not possible) and to bring pilots together, working together

1) 0.1+ Faction Standings to join any FW or any FW corp, No more switching sides without a lot of work on your standings

2) Tax LP gains..... if you are in TLF 24th etc you loose 11% of your LP gains to an NPC tax.....this helps push pilots to flying with corps, or making there own, much like they did with High Sec mission runners

Corp taxes take a cut of FW LPs...... if my corp tax is 5% right now, they dont get anything, im plexing, or PVPing, its worthless..... that 5% should be given as LPs to the corp.....each time I do a novice plex the corp gains 500 LP, i get 9,500 (Of course taxes can be changed just like now)

This allows FW corps to make isk, and have ship replacement programs, build POSs and fuel them, and to do other things



I personally like those ideas, however it still doesn't address the issues with players. I mean again even with those ideas (which again i'm all for) they still benefit those with larger player bases the most. Which would be going the wrong way as it would be encouraging players to flock to the largest blob faction because that's the only way to be successful at FW.

So personally i wouldn't be in favor of changing anything that didn't directly help balance out the player base among the four factions. Even if it's getting an LP bonus for small gangs or something that isn't a traditional approach for EVE.
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-21 20:56:53 UTC
Matopicus wrote:
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:


Ichoyria is a good system, good mission hub, that would be a decent market added in with FW pilots as well (have no lived up there since i was a mission runner)

Some ways to improve FW would be to help reduce the pure farm alts (its not possible) and to bring pilots together, working together

1) 0.1+ Faction Standings to join any FW or any FW corp, No more switching sides without a lot of work on your standings

2) Tax LP gains..... if you are in TLF 24th etc you loose 11% of your LP gains to an NPC tax.....this helps push pilots to flying with corps, or making there own, much like they did with High Sec mission runners

Corp taxes take a cut of FW LPs...... if my corp tax is 5% right now, they dont get anything, im plexing, or PVPing, its worthless..... that 5% should be given as LPs to the corp.....each time I do a novice plex the corp gains 500 LP, i get 9,500 (Of course taxes can be changed just like now)

This allows FW corps to make isk, and have ship replacement programs, build POSs and fuel them, and to do other things



I personally like those ideas, however it still doesn't address the issues with players. I mean again even with those ideas (which again i'm all for) they still benefit those with larger player bases the most. Which would be going the wrong way as it would be encouraging players to flock to the largest blob faction because that's the only way to be successful at FW.

So personally i wouldn't be in favor of changing anything that didn't directly help balance out the player base among the four factions. Even if it's getting an LP bonus for small gangs or something that isn't a traditional approach for EVE.



But it does help stop the blob warfare..... I run FW missions to make isk, and I plex when I roam for pvp..... I have shown the way to do FW missions to many pilots in my corp and in militia chat....only to find that most of them, (the more greedy ones) bail on amarr FW because the can do the same mission running for Gal, but be safer since there are far fewer Caldari pilots than mintar, and earn +150% more LP

If they couldnt jump ship till they had decent standings, it would stop a lot of them....also if they had to find a FW corp to reduce the LP tax it could be harder.... most corps want to know a pilots skills, what they want to do, etc

You cant just say, Well i just wanna FW mission all day and not pay the 11% tax (though im sure some corps would setup that way just to make some free LP and give a home to them)

but its still better than what we have now


A boost to LP for small gangs would be cool but I dont see it happening, and see it able to be abused....if you make the boost large enough to be worthwhile, then you will just get 5-8 pilots that dont let any new pilots in, and fly really shinny but effective gangs
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#18 - 2012-12-21 21:03:24 UTC
I personally would like to spend less time fretting about the contested level of my home systems while at work. How about using Plex to make a system invulnerable to plexing for a period of time? The more you do it the less time you get per plex?
Matopicus
Blackwell Mining
#19 - 2012-12-21 21:03:32 UTC
I agree with the statement that giving an LP bonus to small gangs would result in introverted fleet design (small rings of friends that dont' let anybody in). i wasn't suggesting that as much as saying that something in one way or nothing needs to be done to try and decrease the blobs.

But then again this isn't an issue that's new and only in FW. it's been an issue with eve since it's beginning and CCP hasn't changed it before and they aren't going to change it now.

So we have to live with what we're given i guess.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2012-12-22 00:55:13 UTC
Remove all plex LP (it is the real culprit, not the tier system).

- Replace with high'ish LP-for-Kills modifiers inside plexes/mission and worthwhile war relevant system upgrade paths (maybe even multiple like in null (indy, military, etc. to force a choice .. loads of ideas in F&I thread).

- Revise missions to include poison pills, make them only go to hostile space and let them add small'ish VP to system .. increase standing hit for failing FW missions.

- Make most navy hardware FW specific, ie. monopolies so non militia NPC corps lose items from LP stores or get them at stupidly high prices.

That kills farming permanently. Encourages aggressive defence as well as offence thus letting FW return to its roots (killing for the sake of fun/profit).

But whatever. Been beating that particular one way past the point where its recognizable as a horse so won't get my hopes up for CCP sitting down and thinking it through as a complete eco-system rather than a bunch of disparate items .. took over four years to get them to look at the map for Goddess sake.

PS: Happy holidays ya'll.
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