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Bounty system broke?

Author
Organa Talvanen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-06 18:53:49 UTC
The bounty system as it is now definitely will not work as advertised in the Retribution cinematic!

When you place a bounty on someone, they see the name of the person who placed a bounty and with no warning to the pilot placing the bounty that it is not anonymous (as these kind of things are likely to be in the real world). This just leads to the "bad guy" placing a bounty back onto you, making the purpose of the bounty "retribution" system broken. Why would a wealthy industrialist pilot/corp place a bounty on the ganker when that will just put a bulls-eye and likely a reciprocal bounty on themselves?!!?
We will be back to no justice and likely a dearth of bounties being placed since they are both useless and dangerous to place the bounty.

Here is what CCP had to say:
Quote:
Hello xxxxxxxxx,
Thank you for your bugreport titled: Bounties viewable

The problem you have described is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug.

This is by design. You should contact a player services corporation such as ´Discrete Bounties´ to have a bounty placed by another character for anonymity.

The BugHunter Team


If the intention is that the bounties are properly placed only by player services corporations and/or burner pilots, then why even put the bounty source notification part in the game!!! This only serves to punish many pilots ONCE, but punish newer players adding to their frustration with the game. Player services corporation such as ´Discrete Bounties´ may have some business in the short term, but most everyone will just use burner pilot alts or just give up on the whole bounty system all together. Seems like a big steaming pile of fail, shoveled on by non-anonymity.
Count Lucius Mollari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-12-06 18:57:27 UTC
Decent points. I thought the same thing when I was bountied back withing seconds of placing a bounty on someone.
Dawn DiDacyria
Hybrid Flare
Warped Intentions
#3 - 2012-12-06 19:41:23 UTC
I will come with some criticism on both views here:

CCP, you can easily have the system the way it works now but when making a change from anonymity in placing bounties to transparency when placing bounties you also need to make changes in the game when attempting to place a bounty, like a little pop-up telling the bounty placer that "the player you are placing a bounty on will be notified that you have placed a bounty on his or her head, are you sure you want to continue?"
I would also like to point out that in a system where bounty price origin is transparent it should also be retractable for oh so many reasons. Chief among them being; granted forgiveness; being threatened into withdrawing; being bribed into withdrawing; being offered other help or assistance against withdrawing.
You can not really have it a one way street when you have transparency on bounty placing.

OP, some people might like and want the victim to know that they have placed a bounty on them. I can also see why it maybe should be transparent who has placed bounties on a character considering that those kind of things can be researched and found out in real life. They are not really anonymous in the real world as it's not that hard to find out who it came from even if they try to be anonymous. There's also the matter of being able to right any wrong that's been done, find out who a bounty-placing griefer is (as far from all bounty placements are "reasonable"), and the "chief" reasons to have bounty withdrawal in the game too.

Though without a withdrawal option there should be no transparency to bounty-placing.

Cheers
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2012-12-06 19:49:43 UTC
Use an alt?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Tho'mas
Arm of Coryphaeus
Villore Accords
#5 - 2012-12-06 20:34:01 UTC
I agree you should be able to take back a bounty you placed (i assumed that was already the case, it seems I was mistaken)

I do not agree that bounties should be anonymous. If you want to perform an action that is intended to have the person hunted down and potentially griefed, then you better be ready to accept the consequences of such action.
Count Lucius Mollari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-12-06 20:54:04 UTC
Tho'mas wrote:
I do not agree that bounties should be anonymous. If you want to perform an action that is intended to have the person hunted down and potentially griefed, then you better be ready to accept the consequences of such action.


A major part of my point is that "the consequences of such action" are so easily avoided by using a player service or and alt / burner pilot, that they shouldn't even bother to put it in the game. All it does is bite the ignorant in the butt. The addition of a pop-up telling the bounty placer that "the player you are placing a bounty on will be notified that you have placed a bounty on his or her head, are you sure you want to continue?" as Dawn DiDacyria suggested would at least prevent that issue.
Count Lucius Mollari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-06 21:01:34 UTC
BTW Organa, I can tell you play WoW or something too by your use of the term "Alt".
Mag's, by "Alt" she means one of your other characters/pilots on the same account. To my knowledge, the bounties are tied to pilot and not to account, so this "Alt" could have as many reciprocal bounties on him/her and not worry as long as you just used it in station only to place bounties for others.
Tho'mas
Arm of Coryphaeus
Villore Accords
#8 - 2012-12-06 21:02:06 UTC
I agree they should do a better job of letting people know bounties are not anonymous.
Sentinel zx
#9 - 2012-12-06 21:25:17 UTC
how about making it depending on a sec status
if i place bounty on somebody about sec 0.0 he would see that but not if he had sec lover than 0.0
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-12-06 22:54:56 UTC
Quote:
BTW Organa, I can tell you play WoW or something too by your use of the term "Alt".

This is what every person I have talked to in Eve calls it. As well as every other video game ever that allows more than one character.
Matrim of Manetheren
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#11 - 2012-12-06 23:08:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Matrim of Manetheren
The bounty system IS broken by design.
In the trailer we see someone putting a huge bounty on another person and then everyone being "after him".
This is NOT how it works in game.
You are awarded only 20% of the ship value, so if you kill someone with a trillion bounty in a drake, you will get... 10 mill.
Nobody is going to chase you for such a trivial amount. For someone to become worthy of chasing, they need to fly a ship that costs at least 1 billion, and even that is on the low side...
Bounty hunting is also broken, since to kill a powerful ship you usually need an equally powerful ship, but you are awarded only 20% of the value of the ship destroyed, so you will need to win 6 out of 7 engagements to be on the positive, which simply won't work. Another options is to fly inexpensive ships like Hurricane and try to kill expensive targets, which could work but it's inefficient.
Also, since we figured out that 20% of ship value is not enough to gank for in high sec, where does the bounty matter ? Low and Null are shoot first, ask questions later...
What the current system has is the potential to grief people who didn't do anything, since they can't easily remove the bounty without wasting too much ISK. The people who actually deserve the bounty won't care about it anyway.
Make the payoff 50% or 75% instead of 20%. I'm guessing that it's 20% because a higher payoff will have bigger potential for abuse, but I'm sure you could find a way to deal with it.
This should be easy enough, all of the necessary mechanics are in place, just a few numbers need to be tweaked.
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-12-06 23:28:58 UTC
Count Lucius Mollari wrote:
BTW Organa, I can tell you play WoW or something too by your use of the term "Alt".
Mag's, by "Alt" she means one of your other characters/pilots on the same account. To my knowledge, the bounties are tied to pilot and not to account, so this "Alt" could have as many reciprocal bounties on him/her and not worry as long as you just used it in station only to place bounties for others.


Alt has nothing to do with WoW, you need to finish highschool buddy cause "Alt" means alternate, which could mean alternate account, Alternate character, ectra.
Count Lucius Mollari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-12-07 00:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Count Lucius Mollari
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Count Lucius Mollari wrote:
BTW Organa, I can tell you play WoW or something too by your use of the term "Alt".
Mag's, by "Alt" she means one of your other characters/pilots on the same account...


Alt has nothing to do with WoW, you need to finish highschool buddy cause "Alt" means alternate, which could mean alternate account, Alternate character, ectra.

Wow... THAT's what you take away from all this conversation?!? Troll much? (and I didn't even mention your high school spelling of et cetera (Latin for "and so on"), oh wait... I just did ;-)

I know what Alt is short for, I was trying to answer Mag's question, and I have a PhD... how about you? I made the observation because the term "Alt" is more prevalent in other games and not so much here. (some exceptions always apply)
Organa Talvanen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-07 00:20:55 UTC
Can we go back on topic you two. (I do play WoW too, though)

I stand by by original statement, but it would be helped by the warning message upon posting a bounty, though.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2012-12-07 05:25:18 UTC
Organa Talvanen wrote:
Can we go back on topic you two. (I do play WoW too, though)

I stand by by original statement, but it would be helped by the warning message upon posting a bounty, though.



Ohh dear your actions have consequences? How terrible.


But really no self respecting pvper will bounty a bear back.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Midnight Pheonix
The Corpening
#16 - 2012-12-07 06:15:14 UTC
The new bounty system is decent game design imo, the fact that your actions have consequences is an inherent part of EVE. While a little bit more warning might be needed. The fact that the person is notified that you placed the bounty on them makes the game more in depth when it comes to negative/positive social interaction.

If your a bear and decide to bounty all the guys griefing you, then they deserve to know who is giving them the bounty. Just like the bear gets to know if the pirates put a bounty on him, it works both ways. Also, it works, which is a whole lot better than the previous bounty system.
Dawn DiDacyria
Hybrid Flare
Warped Intentions
#17 - 2012-12-07 06:38:53 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

But really no self respecting pvper will bounty a bear back.


But all the possible griefers will, again and again.

To be fair actions do have consequences but to be even more fair a person should know what the result might be and not be totally unaware of how it actually works. In this case it used to be anonymous and changed to transparent without warning. That is for me what the main issue is here.

Retribution Patch Notes states these things about Bounty and Transparency:

  • You can view Bounty information in the Show Info window for Characters, Corporations and Alliances.
  • You can view your own bounty in the character sheet.
  • The Bounty Information in Show Info is accumulated for all bounty pools. It also has a tooltip on mouse over, to show the breakdown of all bounty pools.
  • You can track how much bounty you have added to entities in EVE with the My Bounties list.
  • Your bounties list is sorted by the most recent bounty that you have contributed to at the top of the list.


No where does it state that viewing the bounty placed on you will give you information on who placed that bounty unless that is implied with Bounty Pool breakdown. If that is the case it should have been better explained what that means.
Only one place in the Patch Notes mentions Bounty Pool at all and that is the third item I listed. So there was no transparency on what Bounty Pool really means nor what it entails.

So state more clearly what the immediate consequence is for placing a bounty on someone or a corporation/alliance, i.e. said player or corporation(alliance will know you placed that bounty.

Cheers
Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#18 - 2012-12-07 06:52:34 UTC
If you get bountied and ganked put a bounty on your ganker and sell your kill right to cover it.

One of the great things about the new crimewatch is that you can now fight back against gankers without even literally fighting as you can let someone else pay for the privilege

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#19 - 2012-12-07 07:08:06 UTC
I feel I must protest this attack on my wonderful new toy feature... the trendy bounty tattoo and fashion statement.

1. I am a HS care-grizzly (meaning bear with teefers), and I while not rich, can earn my own.
2. I have bountied lots of people, including Chribba, Rundle Allnighter, and other high-profiles as well as many in corp and local, all of eve is my goal for a 100K bounty on every EVE player, - see my post on Aurelius Valentius: The Infinitly Prolonged for details.
3. I love the bounty system, it takes WANTED from something serious and dire to something trendy and cool with no real issue.
4. I have so far even bountied myself a couple times due to my bounty amount being an odd number I didn't like, so I buffed it to a nice even one... just to be sure it looked nice.
5. I think this system is perfect, and everyone should bounty everyone, themselves and there mother-in-laws, 100K is not much to buy a cool "WANTED" on your pic and a "Skull" on you ship icon!... and you can even have a pos sec status now when you have it... WIN!

ok, back ot the game of ROCK INCURSIONS!.. remember, FLY BOUNTIED!!!!
Justitia McKingston
#20 - 2012-12-07 09:30:54 UTC
Bounty system works well. We are planning to remove some POS from a Corp just because they have 1b bounty. Dont know who placed it and why the bounty on them Exists but we are attacking them just because of the bounty.

If you do most of the time pvp you will likley attack someone with enough bounty because PVP is expensive and earning cash is most of the Time boring (in my opinion).
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