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Drones are now useless in Missions

Author
Myryanius
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-12-04 11:32:44 UTC
So i come back after a few months break, drawn in by the new patch and all the shiney UI changes (and a chance to place some large bounties on some old enemies) when i discover how horrible the new Sleeper AI is to drones.

As soon as i launch my drones, they pick up aggro...what am i supposed to do? Recall them? Doing l4 in a battleship now seems a lot less viable in several missions, especially drone missions.
Acrel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-12-04 11:34:52 UTC
Would a T3 cruiser work better? I'm thinking about switching from an Apoc Navy Issue to a Legion to do L4's due to better tracking on the guns....
Myryanius
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-12-04 11:37:15 UTC
I used to run in a Sleipnir and it works a dream without Drone DPS, T3 cruisers will probably be the same. Seems like this change is forcing us into cruisers if we are going to be solo mission running.
Acrel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-12-04 11:40:42 UTC
I was planning to buy a Legion soon anyways. I guess now I know what we'll be using it for. This new AI is an unfortunate occurrence I guess. I'll have to try it out myself before i make any final decisions, but so far I'm not liking the sound of it.
Threshner
#5 - 2012-12-04 12:36:23 UTC
I use a Nightmare and very very rarely do i ever need to use drones. Kill them frigates before they get within 15k
Interconnector
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-12-04 12:40:38 UTC
I was drawn in by the new patch, yet oddly enough I didn't read any of the patch notes.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#7 - 2012-12-04 13:44:52 UTC
1. Use Sentries
2. Scoop occasionally when aggroed
3. Profit
4. There is no 4

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."

Mund Richard
#8 - 2012-12-04 14:10:29 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
1. Use Sentries
2. Scoop occasionally when aggroed
3. Profit
4. There is no 4

or
Threshner wrote:
I use a Nightmare and very very rarely do i ever need to use drones. Kill them frigates before they get within 15k

Pretty much.

And if you run a mission where several elite frig rats are right on top of you at spawn-in, obviously accompanied by associate elite EWAR cruisers and merry band of battleships...
...well, post your feedback, I'm not running missions for a week at least.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
The Weekend Warriors
#9 - 2012-12-04 14:22:00 UTC
Will be trying level 3s on my indy alt tonight. She can fly a myrmidon but has only Drone skill no guns (she's an indy minor doing missions just for standings)

If the drones die too easily, I'll find her a mining or distribution agent.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-12-04 14:27:46 UTC
Wellp, this was known long before today's patch. There's a whole thread about it in test server forum about it.

Everyone not happy about drones and AI, I strongly suggest you get very vocal. This is a perfect time to push for a well-overdue drone review that will make drones a viable weapon system and not just a crutch.
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-04 14:37:53 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Wellp, this was known long before today's patch. There's a whole thread about it in test server forum about it.

Everyone not happy about drones and AI, I strongly suggest you get very vocal. This is a perfect time to push for a well-overdue drone review that will make drones a viable weapon system and not just a crutch.


I haven't experienced the pain of this just yet. I'll check later today / tomorrow. You might want to post the test server post for others to review. I've heard nothing but bad about this.
Annunaki soldier
November 17th
The Initiative.
#12 - 2012-12-04 14:46:29 UTC
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. And ok if you do have setries what about other drone that as soon as you have agro and recall em they mwd to you straight line (you know what that means ) make em even more easy targets for the rats. If ccp wanted to stop afk botters then make the drones not to auto agro everything so you have to push a key to fire new npc. If we have changes like that then make all drone boats like normal boats to end the story. Give main weapon missiles or turrets and let drones to be just a "help"

Ride hard, live with passion 

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-12-04 14:48:58 UTC
RADICAL IDEA

makes drones untargetable like probes

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-12-04 14:53:16 UTC
Annunaki soldier wrote:
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. And ok if you do have setries what about other drone that as soon as you have agro and recall em they mwd to you straight line (you know what that means ) make em even more easy targets for the rats. If ccp wanted to stop afk botters then make the drones not to auto agro everything so you have to push a key to fire new npc. If we have changes like that then make all drone boats like normal boats to end the story. Give main weapon missiles or turrets and let drones to be just a "help"


Personally - I like the idea of eliminating the aggressive mode. You have to be at your seat to select targets.

Skippermonkey wrote:
RADICAL IDEA

makes drones untargetable like probes


I don't agree with that. Without DPS nerfs, that would make drones OP. If they went this route, they would eventually nerf the DPS to the point that drones would be completely worthless.

Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-04 14:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Annunaki soldier wrote:
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency.


Hence the suggestion to push for a full-blown drone mechanics review.

Imagine if drones start to be treated like missiles? That is, the only ways to kill a drone would be with smartbomb or a specific module (like defender missiles against missiles). Because drones should be far too small to track with normal guns. Even frigate guns. Think about it. A Tristan can carry 5 drones inside itself. But its guns can easily hit these same drones, that individually supposedly are 0.02% of its own volume, and 0.03% of its own mass? Does this make any sense to you? These same guns then have trouble hitting ships a thousand times larger than a drone, if they move too fast? Are you kidding me?

Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way.
Annunaki soldier
November 17th
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-12-04 14:57:15 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Annunaki soldier wrote:
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency.


Hence the suggestion to push for a full-blown drone mechanics review.

Imagine if drones start to be treated like missiles? That is, the only ways to kill a drone would be with smartbomb or a specific module (like defender missiles against missiles). Because drones should be far too small to track with normal guns. Even frigate guns. Think about it. A Tristan can carry 5 drones inside itself. But its guns can easily hit these same drones, that are individually supposedly are 0.02% of its own volume, and 0.03% of its own mass? Does this make any sense to you? These same guns then have trouble hitting ships a thousand times larger than a drone, if they move too fast? Are you kidding me?

Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way.


you didnt understand me. What i wanted to say is either leave drone agro aside and make em not able to continue shooting new targets so that eliminates afk boaters or take the rattlesnake bonus for example give it to missiles so it can still continue to have a dps flow. Agroing 2 many times already kill the efficiency of the ship to a point that it is better to use another 1.

Ride hard, live with passion 

Myryanius
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-12-04 15:01:16 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Annunaki soldier wrote:
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency.


Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way.



This.

The reason we are having these problems is the new AI mechanics were never considered during the original design of drones in Mission Running. I have always used drones for missions, either as a suppliment to my DPS in the form of Heavy drones or light/medium drones for chasing down frigates. Now i feel like there are a lot of missions i would be incapable of doing simply because i will be webbed and warp scrambled with the fear of my drones being popped before they could take out the tacklers.

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-04 15:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Skippermonkey
RADICAL IDEA NO.2

Reduce the signature size and art model by 10, and have 'one drone' in your drone bay be representative of ten drones.

Visually stunning 'drone swarm' when you launch your drones

edit - visual interpretation of new drone system "FLY MY PRETTIES!"

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-12-04 15:08:49 UTC
Myryanius wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Annunaki soldier wrote:
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency.


Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way.



This.

The reason we are having these problems is the new AI mechanics were never considered during the original design of drones in Mission Running. I have always used drones for missions, either as a suppliment to my DPS in the form of Heavy drones or light/medium drones for chasing down frigates. Now i feel like there are a lot of missions i would be incapable of doing simply because i will be webbed and warp scrambled with the fear of my drones being popped before they could take out the tacklers.



I'll see what the damage is from my end on my other character later. I don't afk or anything, but I have a wife and 2 kids that demand most of my attention. At most, I'm doing 1-3 missions per day.

Would an Ishtar with heavies even be viable in this?
Annunaki soldier
November 17th
The Initiative.
#20 - 2012-12-04 15:12:51 UTC
Anneliese Pollard wrote:
Myryanius wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Annunaki soldier wrote:
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency.


Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way.



This.

The reason we are having these problems is the new AI mechanics were never considered during the original design of drones in Mission Running. I have always used drones for missions, either as a suppliment to my DPS in the form of Heavy drones or light/medium drones for chasing down frigates. Now i feel like there are a lot of missions i would be incapable of doing simply because i will be webbed and warp scrambled with the fear of my drones being popped before they could take out the tacklers.



I'll see what the damage is from my end on my other character later. I don't afk or anything, but I have a wife and 2 kids that demand most of my attention. At most, I'm doing 1-3 missions per day.

Would an Ishtar with heavies even be viable in this?


not ccp prob that but i tottaly understand you. Get a FoF tengu. Get job done much easier

Ride hard, live with passion 

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