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Third Party Secure Services- Breaking into an Industry

Author
Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
#1 - 2012-11-27 18:31:37 UTC
I've been involved in cross-regional trading between various niches for a while now. I've enjoyed it, but I want to do more in Eve involving services and trade. I've seen a number of persons involved in third-party service offerings and am curious as to how one breaks into that industry.

How do you start out? How do you get your first customer? I'd love to be involved in this, but I simply am unsure how to proceed.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-11-27 18:51:26 UTC
You start out by convincing people that you already have more isk than you will ever want or need.

Bonus points if you took said ISK directly from their wallets (lotteries, ...)

.

Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#3 - 2012-11-27 19:30:26 UTC
The way I got in to public 3rd party services was more or less an accident.

A long time ago I started a free service giving T2 bpo evaluations. As business picked up and more and more clients seemed happy with my work, I started getting asked to sell their bpos. That kept going for a while and I started to dabble in lotteries by starting my own. Over time I was approached to secure other peoples lotteries, which I eventually did as I kept getting asked. Once in a while people would ask for a supercap transfers, alliances, shares, etc. As requests started coming in more and more often I decided, to start a thread, since I was already basically running a 3rd party service.

That's how I sort of fell in.Oops

◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥

Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
#4 - 2012-11-27 20:10:40 UTC
So it was started by accident through another service. Interesting...
That makes me concerned though because I am unsure as to what else I could undertake to convince people of my trustworthiness. Do you have further suggestions?
Lando Antilles
#5 - 2012-11-27 20:18:42 UTC
OP,

by virtue of this very thread, you have assured us of your trustworthiness :P

mission... accomplished?
Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
#6 - 2012-11-27 20:24:19 UTC
Lando Antilles wrote:
OP,

by virtue of this very thread, you have assured us of your trustworthiness :P

mission... accomplished?


Not sure if sarcasm.

Either way, further insight to this would be greatly appreciated. Chribba, if you're watching, please advise if you can.

*activates Chribba beacon.*
Lando Antilles
#7 - 2012-11-27 20:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lando Antilles
Sarcasm lock successful.

Grendell spoke the truth above. Asking for trust is not how to get it. Demonstrating that you are trustworthy is. He did that by providing a service for a long time. Chribba earned it by providing many services for a longer time. If you really want to do this, then do it the hard way, otherwise, if you want to scam, write an IPO/loan post like everybody else (I'm looking at you Kei and Brock! #stillButthurt)

TL;DR
“Be good at something. It makes you valuable. Have something to bring to the table, because that will make you more welcome.”
― Randy Pausch
Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
#8 - 2012-11-27 20:42:47 UTC
Lando Antilles wrote:
Sarcasm lock successful.

Grendell spoke the truth above. Asking for trust is not how to get it. Demonstrating that you are trustworthy is. He did that by providing a service for a long time. Chribba earned it by providing many services for a longer time. If you really want to do this, then do it the hard way, otherwise, if you want to scam, write an IPO/loan post like everybody else (I'm looking at you Kei and Brock! #stillButthurt)

TL;DR
“Be good at something. It makes you valuable. Have something to bring to the table, because that will make you more welcome.”
― Randy Pausch


Alright. If this is the case, then I think I may have an idea for a service. Thank you very much for your input, sarcasm aside :P
Ruvin
Siberian Squads
#9 - 2012-11-27 21:04:37 UTC
Play for lots of time . (doubt many will trust a new or relative new character)
Clean character , who wasnt involved in strange activities / scam etc
Youre widely known by comunnity be it in trade / pvp / making different stuff for the game (evemon/mentat/b-clinic)
Good skills in writing reading should be also helpfull .
A normal name i suppose ... there was once a guy called Badboy afaik ? he got trusted with hundreds of billions if memory serves me well .



And so on , the list could go on , but i think its not something you achieve , its just something that happens .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.

shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-11-27 21:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Rodtrik wrote:

How do you start out? How do you get your first customer? I'd love to be involved in this, but I simply am unsure how to proceed.


Just compare yourself to the existing 3rd parties and you will find out quickly that you have absolutely nothing to do in this kind of industry...

literally all of them were famous already for beeing incredible rich, extremely honest or maintaining the most usefull eve webtools BEFORE they started doing third party.

If it would be just that easy to start your service and base all your reputation on your first deal, nearly everyone in eve could open third party service.

shar'ra phone home

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#11 - 2012-11-28 03:40:20 UTC
The key is to earn the trust, something if you want to be successful you will invest a lot of time into proving pilots can count on you. I get questions like this many times and tbh there's no shortcuts, it will take time and dedication.

Like Grendell said, I landed in this line of work more of less by accident too, I was asked by friends to help them, then their friends asked me and so it went on, but it took over a year before I went from friends to "public", and by that time I had already provided other services for a few years so my name was not completely unknown.

My suggestion, like it is to others is to start small, try help friends, try help locals, be it doing courier missions for them or helping finding items. You can try by running small lotteries and over time increase values. Don't expect to get billion ISK values the first week, expect it to take years by showing that pilots can count on you.

The key is to build a reputation where the reputation itself is worth more than any deals you take on, that will make both yourself and your customers safe. And remember always be polite, a happy customer has happy friends.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#12 - 2012-11-28 07:01:55 UTC
Hello,

I suggest reading this little page of mine, that describes the "job" and some of its challenges.


As for getting "into" 3rd party service, imo the best way is to do something useful that people appreciate and to prove you:

- are a "presence", that is you play often enough to be relied to be useful when people need you.

- are trustworthy.


Like Chribba and Grendell above, I sort of "stumbled" into this kind of activity. I was auditing stuff and then I started getting asked to "secure lottos", to "hold collateral" and ships and so on. Despite I don't like lottos, don't like securing lottos and don't care to flip ships between people P

So, analyse our paths:

- All started doing "something" that was perceived as useful.
- All started doing "something" that required some sort of reliability / trust.
- All kept doing it for a while.

These are the elements that open a whole lot of opportunities and meta-gaming.

The hard part is that the process comes as "natural evolution" in a relationship between "the guy" and a community, trying to hasten or force or "trick" any of the process may lead to disastrous and fast rejection exactly by the community.


If you want to have a laugh I suggest you reading an half ironic, half sarcastic and half true ancient guide of mine on the argument: "How to grind MD reputation like a pro". It gives a lot of cues in between the lines.
Block Ukx
Winnie Blues and VB Crew
#13 - 2012-11-28 13:03:44 UTC


Same sentiment here. I was asked to provide third party services related to the Stock Exchange. As you can tell, my services are very specific to stock trading. I either hold collateral for bonds launched in the stock exchange, or hold in-game shares to provide a real-time exchange.

To be more specific and answer your questions, I started a very small corporation (Block Ships and Ammunitions Corporation – BSAC) over six years ago. It was worth 448 million ISK. After several IPOs and Bonds, three years later the corporation grew to 400 Billion ISK. In September 2009, I launched the BSAC Stock Exchange with the goal of providing a real-time stock exchange. In order for the real-time exchange to work, I needed to act as a third party and hold in trust the in-game shares. After roughly six months, my first customer wanted me to hold collateral so he could launch a tradable bond in the exchange.

Today, I provide a service that no one else provides; a real-time stock exchange. Launching a bond in the Exchange is very easy, so don’t hesitate to contact me if you are interested.


Anslo
Scope Works
#14 - 2012-11-28 14:04:27 UTC
Everything that has been said should definitely be taken to heart here. I'm not in third party services, but I understand the value of trust when it comes to business.

I may be an ass hat, but I don't let that affect my business or customers. For instance, I do research and analysis in the real world. Because of this experience, I apply my analysis and research skills to Eve and help interested parties find trends in markets, industrial opportunities, etc.

Here's something you could try to start with; prospect systems for PI exploitability. Start a website and database for your clients and help them find the stuff they need or want, and offer tips on how to secure it, deal with taxes, or eliminate taxes with "diplomacy."

That's just one idea, but there's 913458173 ways you could go out there and get known. Good luck man Smile

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#15 - 2012-11-28 15:34:44 UTC
Just to add on to what's already been said.

Don't try and convince people you are trustworthy. I know that sounds like the opposite of what you are trying to achieve. But the truth is, people have to start trusting you on their own, and you can't force that. I've seen more start up 3rd party services fail than I can count. They all failed for the same reason, they did not earn their public trust. They tried to skip to the last step instead.

Most of the 3rd parties today started off by doing something for the community and or friends free of charge. The reason I'm sure most charge now is for the same reason I charge for the service now. That simple reason is, these 3rd party trades take up our game time. Some days it can be a few minutes, but other days that means a few hours of our time.

So what I'm trying to say is, don't rush it. Get into a line of public work, preferably a niche need. When people start approaching you for transaction security, don't throw up a thread. Wait until you have a consistent flow of clients.

Don't forget to be polite and politically neutral. Very small but crucial details. I can go on for hours reflecting about how I ended up where I did. But I'm sure you get the idea by now, it can take years. So don't rush it, or you will end up like one of the many failed attempts.

Grendell ♥

◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥

Taji Taka
The Arcadian Sun
#16 - 2012-11-28 16:36:00 UTC
Block Ukx wrote:


Same sentiment here. I was asked to provide third party services related to the Stock Exchange. As you can tell, my services are very specific to stock trading. I either hold collateral for bonds launched in the stock exchange, or hold in-game shares to provide a real-time exchange.

To be more specific and answer your questions, I started a very small corporation (Block Ships and Ammunitions Corporation – BSAC) over six years ago. It was worth 448 million ISK. After several IPOs and Bonds, three years later the corporation grew to 400 Billion ISK. In September 2009, I launched the BSAC Stock Exchange with the goal of providing a real-time stock exchange. In order for the real-time exchange to work, I needed to act as a third party and hold in trust the in-game shares. After roughly six months, my first customer wanted me to hold collateral so he could launch a tradable bond in the exchange.

Today, I provide a service that no one else provides; a real-time stock exchange. Launching a bond in the Exchange is very easy, so don’t hesitate to contact me if you are interested.




Did you open a new site? I thought the BSAC exchange was shutting down.
Block Ukx
Winnie Blues and VB Crew
#17 - 2012-11-28 18:22:16 UTC
Taji Taka wrote:

Did you open a new site? I thought the BSAC exchange was shutting down.



The BSAC Stock Exchange is OPEN for bussiness and I have no plans of shuting it down.


I'm buying back all BSAC stocks.


Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-11-28 19:40:56 UTC
Grendell wrote:
Most of the 3rd parties today started off by doing something for the community and or friends free of charge.

that's a point to consider - you could start out as a trusted 3rd party for transactions within your corp/alliance (where people know you better and hopefully have more reasons to trust you) and later try to branch out into offering your service publicly. Wirox did it that way iirc.

.

shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-11-29 14:00:15 UTC
You also shouldnt forget that every business is based on supply&demand. Nowadays we have at least 5 very trusted third party services spread over all time zones and one of those does it already for free...ask yourself why anyone should choose you over one of the other services...


Block Ukx wrote:
Taji Taka wrote:

Did you open a new site? I thought the BSAC exchange was shutting down.


The BSAC Stock Exchange is OPEN for bussiness and I have no plans of shuting it down.

I'm buying back all BSAC stocks.


not artificial at all, lol


shar'ra phone home