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Just how much of a difference do some of those level V skills actually make?

Author
Fort Knockers
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-15 21:45:33 UTC
DISCLAIMER:

Being new, I've learned, I think, a few things about EVE and GD. In general, before posting *anything*, consider how will the post be interpreted as a

- pro or con minerbummping
- goons are ruining EVE, please get rid of them CCP
- a goon hug-fest
- hi-sec is too safe, nerf it
- hi-sec is too dangerous, fix it
- null is too safe, nerf it
- null is run by one large CCP-backed, in-game mega corp, fix it
- PvP is ONLY ship to ship PvP, deal with it
- PvP is ship PvP, Indy Pvp, Trading PvP, poker PvP, etc... deal with it
- This post is obvious troll about one of the these (^)
- This post is stealth troll about one of the these (^)
- last, but not least, EVE has been dying for 10 years, can I have your stuff

This is post is not one of those, despite how many responses to the contrary that follow. That said....

QUESTION:

As a n00by getting his wings, I have a two accounts with characters I think I want to specialize as 1 - covert-ops to both explore and scout, 2 - logistics ('healer', not 'hauler'). Now, it seems based on my paltry player experience and forum research, these activities have a few skills where level V is a must. No problem, long haul game. I'm committed to investing the time, not crying about the wait.

What I'm most worried is that when learning, as a player, to do some of these activities, with low skills, it can get a little frustrating. Not tear inducing, keyboard slamming, coffee cup throwing, baby seal clubbing, CCP please fix this frustrating. Just the 'well, I still suck at this, is it low skills?' frustrating. So you go to the forums and read 'get skill X, Y & Z to V'. Or find use ship A, with fit B, which require some training time. I don't want to patiently wait only to find that with all skills at V, I still as player, still suck at it.

That said, for those of you who explore, scout and/or logi, how much time did you devote getting player experience in these activities on the way to hitting level V on some of these skills or does hitting level V simply make them practical to do?

TIA, hope this made sense.

PS: I refuse to generate any tears here. Wouldn't it be ironic if my lack of player skill generated the first...
Nykr
KINAKKA.
#2 - 2012-11-15 21:53:36 UTC
Well. If you are flying logistics. And planning on flying it a lot. level 5 is a must. If you are planning to fly it sometimes. level 5 is a must.

Thing is the diffrence the skill makes from 4-5 is HUMONGUS!

Scanning. Well. I do it a lot. and got the skills at 4. So unless you realy want to dedicate your time scanning a lot. I guess 5 will be worth it.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3 - 2012-11-15 21:53:51 UTC
Fort Knockers wrote:

That said, for those of you who explore, scout and/or logi, how much time did you devote getting player experience in these activities on the way to hitting level V on some of these skills or does hitting level V simply make them practical to do?




The new expansion and changes to the frigs/crusiers should make having less than optimal skills in those areas be less of a hinderance.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2012-11-15 21:55:16 UTC
There are players killing big shiny ships with t1 fitted frigs and there are players in those big shiny ships. Point is character skills are important as they make your ship and modules more efficient but player HUMAN skills are more important because they dictate how and when you will use that ship and modules. There is a saying around here "can't patch stupid", try to remember about that on your Eve journey.

Invalid signature format

Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-11-15 22:00:39 UTC
On Dec 4th there will be T1 frigates having bonuses to reps. So even as a low SP char you will be able to "heal".

To new players I always can recommend the "tackle and kill stuff" thingy first before trying to specialize in something. Hop into a Rifter or something cheap, add a decent fitting to it (propulsion module, warp disruptor, guns ofc etc.) and hop into lowsec or nullsex to find someone ratting in a belt. Kill him, or get killed, maybe both. Gain your experience. Then you're on a good way.

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance

Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#6 - 2012-11-15 22:08:50 UTC
Yeah scan skills to 4 are pretty good. Worst thing you can do is find out you need a skill to five to do something... eventually... and neglect to train more immediately useful skills to 3-4 first.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2012-11-15 22:13:35 UTC
OP has officially earned the crown for:

King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW !

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#8 - 2012-11-15 22:20:16 UTC
Experience trumps L5s unless its needed for the ship. For Logis L5 is more than highly recommended.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#9 - 2012-11-15 22:29:56 UTC
Logistics is one of the few ships where V actually make a difference.

With V you are cap stable with one cap in (on Guardians and Basi's), with IV you need two in.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2012-11-15 22:32:12 UTC
And then there are Lvl 5's that 'physically' add something, like Planetary Interaction: a whole other planet for PI.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Fort Knockers
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-11-15 22:32:14 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
OP has officially earned the crown for:

King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW !


With all due respect, I was trying to ask a question with quite the opposite attitude. The root question are level V's worth it? Not I want it now.

Should have added the self entitlement to my disclaimer.
Lance Rossiter
CHAINS Corp
#12 - 2012-11-15 22:35:48 UTC
I got a strong sense from my month in Rookie Help that scanning is one of those things that people either love or hate. I'm one of the ones who loves it: and within the first few days of playing I was making millions hacking sites in low sec and getting Condors and Ibises blown up after scanning down sites in wormhole space.

If you can't get a site down even when in maximum zoom with six probes in tight formation, then it's a scan strength / potential character skill issue: it's easy to identify when that happens, and you can either skill up or get more advanced scanning gear. If you're having more trouble in general or just finding it annoying then you might belong to the "hate it" camp, and there's no shame in that. Plenty of people just don't like or "get" scanning.

Logistics, like the others have said, seems to be a more character-skill restricted activity, but will soon be opening up. Some things are just like that, gated by certain "fives" - the way you need Refining V to open up Refinery Efficiency and a lot of the ore processing skills, or the way you need Drones V to open up the skill that gives 20% drone damage per level. You can assess the importance of character skills by looking at the trees and seeing how large the bonuses are and how far you need to go down a certain path before you can access them.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#13 - 2012-11-15 22:36:54 UTC
Fort Knockers wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
OP has officially earned the crown for:

King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW !


With all due respect, I was trying to ask a question with quite the opposite attitude. The root question are level V's worth it? Not I want it now.

Should have added the self entitlement to my disclaimer.



lol Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-11-15 22:41:30 UTC
Posting in a stealth nerf low-sec captain's quarters thread.

CCP has no sense of humour.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#15 - 2012-11-15 22:44:01 UTC
There are a scant few lvl V:s that are universally worth it.

Logistics V is one of them because of the massive bonus it provides — it will frequently shift a ship from capping out in under a minute to being perfectly cap stable. Another is Drone Interfacing — it's designed to effectively give you one additional drone without the bother of having to manage one more drone, and at V, you'll have the full (virtual) set of 10. Recon V is another common one because of how it frees up fitting space on force recons, but that still assumes you'll be flying those a lot.

Beyond that, it's mostly core skills and some fitting skills such as Weapon Upgrades (Advanced and normal), because of their universal applicability and because most of them are so dirt cheap that taking them to V is pretty painless.

The basic rule is that anything worth training is worth training to IV. V is for opening up new stuff and because you've got nothing better to do.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#16 - 2012-11-15 22:46:57 UTC
ALLLLlll lvl V skills are useful. When you more or less run out of things worth training, lvl V skills keep the queue full for over a week, some over a month.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-11-15 22:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider

  • Some level fives are so important, that if you don't have them trained after a few weeks of playing, esp. for a combat pilot, you're doing something wrong. Ex: Engineering, Electronics.
  • Some are so important, that people might question you on why are you flying this and that but don't have these skills trained to five. Ex: Jump Drive Calibration, Energy Management.
  • Some are a must have, or at the very least, significantly improves your ability at certain aspect/role. Ex: Logistics, Recons
  • Some opens up more options; and allows you to do something that you probably couldn't do previously without the help of something else. Ex: Advanced Weapon Upgrades
  • Some are prerequisites for something else. Ex: Large Energy Weapons, Gunnery
  • Some improves the performance of certain ships or modules by respectable margin, but it's fine if you don't have them. Ex: Battlecruisers, Amarr Battleship
  • Some improves the performance of certain ships or modules by some margin, it's your choice to train them or not. Ex: Surgical Strike, Guided Missile Precision
  • Some are almost utterly useless. Ex : Multitasking

My thoughts on level 5s, mind you that this is not factual or anything, just an opinion.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave

Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
#18 - 2012-11-15 22:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
For Logi, the 5 matters because of the bonus attached to it but in that case it's about how you plan to Logi.

You have 2 doctrines of Logistics in EVE. Fleet, spider tanked Logistics or autonomous Logistics where you try to keep your ship up and run Logi on your own. The second is good for smaller gangs.

If you want to run autonomous Logi, that 5 will make a big difference in how long you can keep your Logistics going. Truth be said, if you were going to lose a fight, the 5 won't matter. It's usually overkill in EVE to such an extent that the only thing that will matter is more people.

The same holds true for Spider tanked fleet logi but you can kind of get away with 4 there. The difference won't break the fleet, you just won't be putting balanced numbers in to the web. The way my Guardian is set up, I only need a certain amount of cap from my transfer donor to hold up my modules. 4 will do that. If someone hits you with a drain though it will hurt you.

In most cases, the 5 is requisite. They won't change the core game principles.

Gank beats tank. All 5's where tank is involved? Won't matter. Gank beats tank. You might force them to have 1 or 2 more guys in that Gank but what I said before. It's usually overkill anyway. They built the roam or the primary structure assuming their target had all 5's. You will die anyway.
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-15 22:52:12 UTC
for probing, you want astro 5 to use 8 probes.
after that, get covops 5, makes a big difference.
the astro support skills are well worth it at 5 too but they take too long for most people to bother with.

There is no Bob.

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Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#20 - 2012-11-15 22:52:19 UTC
Fort Knockers wrote:
DISCLAIMER:

Being new, I've learned, I think, a few things about EVE and GD. In general, before posting *anything*, consider how will the post be interpreted as a

- pro or con minerbummping
- goons are ruining EVE, please get rid of them CCP
- a goon hug-fest
- hi-sec is too safe, nerf it
- hi-sec is too dangerous, fix it
- null is too safe, nerf it
- null is run by one large CCP-backed, in-game mega corp, fix it
- PvP is ONLY ship to ship PvP, deal with it
- PvP is ship PvP, Indy Pvp, Trading PvP, poker PvP, etc... deal with it
- This post is obvious troll about one of the these (^)
- This post is stealth troll about one of the these (^)
- last, but not least, EVE has been dying for 10 years, can I have your stuff

This girl gets it.
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