These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Newbro Guide - Skilling for Faction Warfare

Author
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-07 21:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/11/skilling-for-faction-warfare.html

This skill plan focuses strongly on a single faction and a single weapon type, but you can switch out for another faction and weapon type easily enough, and the skill plan will more than accommodate those changes.

The one weakness of this skill plan is in the area of drones. Only the most basic skills are included, and then near the end of each skill plan. So, if you wish to focus on Gallente, you might want to add some further drone support skills into the planning equation.

So, this plan focuses on getting you into Minmatar ships. These are versatile PvP ships that have remained popular for a long period of time. Plus, we'll be focusing on projectile weapons, they have range versatility and give you greater fitting and capacitor flexibility.

First things first. Getting you into the Thrasher. The most versatile lowsec PvP ship there is. Doesn't really matter what faction you decide to join, the Thrasher is a popular learning ship for all newbros.

This initial skill plan will take all of the important fitting and PvP skills to level three. This is an eleven day skill plan. You'll be flying a Thrasher in the first few hours, but in little over a week, you'll have some basic gunnery and fitting skills, making it a bit easier to fit out your ship.
Quote:
Minmatar Frigate III
Destroyers III
Gunnery III
Propulsion Jamming III
Small Projectile Turret III
Spaceship Command III
Science III
Cybernetics I
Targeting III
Long Range Targeting III
Gunnery IV
Trajectory Analysis III
Surgical Strike III
Signature Analysis III
Rapid Firing III
Sharpshooter III
Motion Prediction III
Weapon Upgrades III
Mechanics III
Hull Upgrades III
Acceleration Control III
Evasive Maneuvering III
Afterburner III
Fuel Conservation III
Warp Drive Operation III
Energy Systems Operation III
Energy Grid Upgrades III
Energy Management III
Missile Launcher Operation III
Rockets III
Rapid Launch III
Drones III
Scout Drone Operation III
Jury Rigging III
Armor Rigging I
Astronautics Rigging I
Projectile Weapon Rigging I
Drones Rigging I
Launcher Rigging I
Shield Rigging I

Some of these skills may already be at level III when your character is first created (Electronics and Engineering, for example), so ignore entries where your starting skills are already at the appropriate level.

The following advanced skill plan will raise certain key skills to level five, while furthering other fitting and PvP skills to level four. It will introduce you into cruisers and battlecruisers, and the use of medium-sized weaponry. This advanced skill plan will require another 100 days of training. But it definitely sets up a very strong base for all further training you might wish to do, no matter which faction ships you'll train from here.
Quote:
Minmatar Frigate V
Destroyers V
Gunnery V
Small Projectile Turret V
Small Autocannon Specialization III
Small Artillery Specialization III
Electronics V
Engineering V
Science IV
Thermodynamics III
Targeting V
Long Range Targeting IV
Trajectory Analysis IV
Surgical Strike IV
Signature Analysis IV
Rapid Firing IV
Sharpshooter IV
Motion Prediction IV
Weapon Upgrades IV
Mechanics V
Hull Upgrades V
Acceleration Control IV
Evasive Maneuvering IV
Afterburner IV
Fuel Conservation IV
Warp Drive Operation IV
Energy Systems Operation IV
Energy Grid Upgrades IV
Energy Management IV
Drones IV
Scout Drone Operation IV
Medium Projectile Turret III
Minmatar Cruiser III
Spaceship Command IV
Battlecruisers III

If anyone notices and mistake or omissions, or you simply have some suggestions, then feel free to comment. I'm open to making changes to this skill plan if any better ideas are presented.
Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-11-07 21:49:48 UTC
So its pretty obvious in the skill plan that the intention is to get people into bigger ships what changes would you make if i wanted to focus on Frigate and Destroyers only.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-11-07 22:05:17 UTC
Denegrah Togasa wrote:
So its pretty obvious in the skill plan that the intention is to get people into bigger ships what changes would you make if i wanted to focus on Frigate and Destroyers only.

I don't think the intention is to get people into bigger ships. The intention is to make sure they have good fitting, support and PvP skills before they jump into cruisers and battlecruisers. The skill plan lasts 100 days before cruiser and battlecruisers are even added to the plan.

That said, depending on which T2 frigates are attractive to you, you'll train those skill reqs to V more quickly. You'd also train all support and fitting skills to V before heading into the larger ships. And with the new missile and drone destroyers on the way, you would broaden the missile and drone skills in this plan, both are skimpy in this particular plan (only the basics added.)
Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-07 22:19:09 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:

I don't think the intention is to get people into bigger ships. The intention is to make sure they have good fitting, support and PvP skills before they jump into cruisers and battlecruisers. The skill plan lasts 100 days before cruiser and battlecruisers are even added to the plan.

That said, depending on which T2 frigates are attractive to you, you'll train those skill reqs to V more quickly. You'd also train all support and fitting skills to V before heading into the larger ships. And with the new missile and drone destroyers on the way, you would broaden the missile and drone skills in this plan, both are skimpy in this particular plan (only the basics added.)


This is a problem i think with vets is they kind of assume us new players know what you mean by "Support skills" Its a broad term used to gloss over what looks to me like years of training. The same goes for Fitting skills after electronics and engineering it becomes much less obvious what one should train and more importantly when they should be training it.

IE. should i train weapon upgrades 5 before warp drive operation 4 etc.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-07 22:36:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Denegrah Togasa wrote:
This is a problem i think with vets is they kind of assume us new players know what you mean by "Support skills" Its a broad term used to gloss over what looks to me like years of training. The same goes for Fitting skills after electronics and engineering it becomes much less obvious what one should train and more importantly when they should be training it.
See this post:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=77549

Pretty much all those skills can be considered support and/or fitting skills.

***

I also consider PvP support skills, such as Rapid Fire and Trajectory Analysis as support skills, since they benefit all turret weapons, no matter which ones you decide to focus on training.
Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-07 23:33:45 UTC
I hope i am not sounding like i am picking at your post or anything just looking for as much information as one can. How would you prioritize the skills you listed?
Ilnaurk Sithdogron
Blackwater International
#7 - 2012-11-07 23:56:53 UTC
As far as I know, support skills are skills that don't directly allow you to use anything new. So, while Large Projectile Turret is not a support skill, Surgical Strike is. Support skills improve the effects of stuff you already have, but they usually don't allow you to use anything new. They're the reason that someone who can fly every ship in the game might not be good at flying any of them.

http://eve-sojourn.blogspot.com/

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-11-08 08:50:16 UTC
Denegrah Togasa wrote:
I hope i am not sounding like i am picking at your post or anything just looking for as much information as one can. How would you prioritize the skills you listed?
No problem at all. Your questions helped to improve the queue a bit and gave me an idea for the next guide.
Keno Skir
#9 - 2012-11-08 10:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Prioritise the skills based on what you need right now. Use any skillplan as a guide and don't forget you need to have fun while you wait.

Core skills are skills which help toward most or all hulls you might fly. Armor and shield resists, energy management (capacitor and recharge), propulsion (afterburner / mwd) or various weapons skills and others.

Skills not considered core skills would be Mining (yeah really i see no reason for any new player to train this unless they actually really want to mine long-time), various ship command skills that allow you to fly ships, warfare link skills and other specialist skills.

Idea being you get core skills done, and they allow you more powergrid and cpu, more cap and cap recharge, more speed and more damage. Basically you could train the most bad ass hull in the game and be useless because you had poor fitting skills. On the other hand someone who gets a good foundation of base skills before further specialist training can be deadly in the cheapest ship in the game.

Bittervets may have 7 years of training over you, but that's where specialisation is key. A 7 year old player can only have frigate lvl5 for instance, which is also relatively quick for you. Maybe you wont be able to beat him at battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers and frigs by month 6 but if you spend that 6 months specialising in frigs it take much less than 7 years to get as good as the vets in frigs, or cruisers or whatever you choose. This is because the vast majority of the 7 year olds xp has little or nothing to do with frigates. 6 years of training for battleships, pos guns, mining and research and titans wont do jack for his frigate fighting since he capped his frig skills at same place as everyone else. A place thats not so far from where you are now.

I use frigates as an example, if you want to fly battlecruisers it takes bit longer but principal is the same. Choose something to be good at and you can catch up easy to vet players. Only when you spread your bets and try to do everything you run into problems, but EvE usually isn't for those people anyway.

As a last note the majority of players i see in eve are sub 2 years old and definitely not vets in any way shape or form.

Please feel free to contact me if u need a friendly face in game o/
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-11-08 20:47:12 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Bittervets may have 7 years of training over you, but that's where specialisation is key. A 7 year old player can only have frigate lvl5 for instance, which is also relatively quick for you. Maybe you wont be able to beat him at battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers and frigs by month 6 but if you spend that 6 months specialising in frigs it take much less than 7 years to get as good as the vets in frigs, or cruisers or whatever you choose. This is because the vast majority of the 7 year olds xp has little or nothing to do with frigates. 6 years of training for battleships, pos guns, mining and research and titans wont do jack for his frigate fighting since he capped his frig skills at same place as everyone else. A place thats not so far from where you are now.

I use frigates as an example, if you want to fly battlecruisers it takes bit longer but principal is the same. Choose something to be good at and you can catch up easy to vet players. Only when you spread your bets and try to do everything you run into problems, but EvE usually isn't for those people anyway.
This is the most important thing for new players to understand. You can always become better than bittervets in specific ship classes, frigates especially. Training plus your own personal piloting skills.
Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-08 22:57:03 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Prioritise the skills based on what you need right now. Use any skillplan as a guide and don't forget you need to have fun while you wait.



How do i figure out what skills i need right now? When you talk to other people about ships and fits as a new player you get well a thousand different answers most of which will not work for where your at. As i am starting to understand.

The best example i have is most people link you a fit with an idea what targets they can deal with weather they articulate it or not(most of the time not) So when they say oh its a thrasher that does about 200dps and you fit it up and it does 123 dps at a shorter range. And then you fail with it because you really had no chance to succeed with it.

I am not sure where i am going with it maybe just rambling, I think that Vets forget what its like to be so new you can't use tech 2 modules. Even if their intentions are good they just can't revert to thinking what did i do before that.
OT Smithers
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-11-09 07:56:10 UTC
Denegrah Togasa wrote:

How do i figure out what skills i need right now? When you talk to other people about ships and fits as a new player you get well a thousand different answers most of which will not work for where your at. As i am starting to understand.

The best example i have is most people link you a fit with an idea what targets they can deal with weather they articulate it or not(most of the time not) So when they say oh its a thrasher that does about 200dps and you fit it up and it does 123 dps at a shorter range. And then you fail with it because you really had no chance to succeed with it.

I am not sure where i am going with it maybe just rambling, I think that Vets forget what its like to be so new you can't use tech 2 modules. Even if their intentions are good they just can't revert to thinking what did i do before that.


It's not that simple. There is no easy and correct answer to any "What can this kill" question like this. For example, consider the Enyo.

The Enyo, for new players who do not know, is a Gallente T2 Assault Frigate. It can be fitted out in any of a half dozen or so different ways or so. Every setup must be flown differently, each has it's own list of ships it might kill under optimal circumstances. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that this particular Enyo is fitted with close range blasters, an afterburner, and an active armor tank. In this form it is designed to get in close and slaughter, and it is very good at this role. So what can it kill?

It can potentially kill any frigate in the game, any cruiser, any battlecruiser, and even perhaps battleships, assuming everything goes perfectly. It can be killed by any of the above, from the "lowly" T1 frigates on up. A two week old noob in a T1 frigate can potentially kill a multi year veteran in that Enyo -- if he catches him in the wrong place.

Almost any ship in the game can potentially kill anything above or below it's class assuming everything goes correctly. The trick is understanding what those situations are, and how to set them up for yourself. This requires, obviously, a significant understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of every ship and weapon type, the relative advantages of every potential build, and the ability to recognize quickly what's going on.

If it sounds daunting that's because it is. It's overwhelming for everyone, including veterans, but then that's what allows you as a new player to succeed. So pick something. Learn everything you can about it and discover what it does best. Master it, and focus your training on making that one ship the best that it can be. Find and join a PvP corporation and learn from them. They will be your support and back up while you learn.

Good luck
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#13 - 2012-11-09 08:16:21 UTC
Denegrah Togasa wrote:
How do i figure out what skills i need right now? When you talk to other people about ships and fits as a new player you get well a thousand different answers most of which will not work for where your at. As i am starting to understand.


The funniest bit is when a four-year veteran player tries giving advice and suggests you fly something that they've never flown, with weapons they've never used :)

Just realise that giving fitting advice in EVE is like giving relationship advice in real life: except that relationship advice in real life more often works than it doesn't. Everyone has their own ideas on how to fit: aim for more DPS at the expense of tank so you finish fights faster? Aim for more tank so you can last longer even if it takes you twice as long to kill the other guy? Buffer tank, active shield, active armour or passive shield tank? Go for the largest artillery you can fit, or one size down so you have better tracking at the cost of potential DPS? Will you have better DPS with a smaller turret due to signature resolution?

What really matters is to try something that might not be perfect. Be prepared to fail. When you fail, be ready to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try again (but differently). And bring friends. Even if you and your friends have no idea what you're doing, you'll be stronger together. And then even when you fail together, you'll have someone to share those tear-stained beers with Lol
Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-11-09 17:19:00 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:


It's not that simple. There is no easy and correct answer to any "What can this kill" question like this. For example, consider the Enyo.

The Enyo, for new players who do not know, is a Gallente T2 Assault Frigate. It can be fitted out in any of a half dozen or so different ways or so. Every setup must be flown differently, each has it's own list of ships it might kill under optimal circumstances. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that this particular Enyo is fitted with close range blasters, an afterburner, and an active armor tank. In this form it is designed to get in close and slaughter, and it is very good at this role. So what can it kill?

It can potentially kill any frigate in the game, any cruiser, any battlecruiser, and even perhaps battleships, assuming everything goes perfectly. It can be killed by any of the above, from the "lowly" T1 frigates on up. A two week old noob in a T1 frigate can potentially kill a multi year veteran in that Enyo -- if he catches him in the wrong place.

Almost any ship in the game can potentially kill anything above or below it's class assuming everything goes correctly. The trick is understanding what those situations are, and how to set them up for yourself. This requires, obviously, a significant understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of every ship and weapon type, the relative advantages of every potential build, and the ability to recognize quickly what's going on.

If it sounds daunting that's because it is. It's overwhelming for everyone, including veterans, but then that's what allows you as a new player to succeed. So pick something. Learn everything you can about it and discover what it does best. Master it, and focus your training on making that one ship the best that it can be. Find and join a PvP corporation and learn from them. They will be your support and back up while you learn.

Good luck


I am not sure what your saying but the closest thing i can compare it to is magic the gathering. When you build a deck you have an idea of what types of decks you want to prey on depending on the meta game in your area. There is sort of a food chain in magic its pretty complicated but the basic food chain is Combo beats Aggro, Aggro Beats control, Control beats combo.

But its not that simple because the game is far more complex then rock paper scissors, and its why you play out each match because skill is more often the deciding factor then the cards, which is what allows rock to beat paper in some instances but more often then not paper covers rock.

I feel like it is the same with Ships in Eve weather people do it consciously or not they build ships and fleets to prey upon certain targets, and try to minimize their interaction with targets that beat them.

I also feel i have strayed way off topic.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-10 09:51:25 UTC
I knew I was going to forget something obvious. Propulsion Jamming III added into the mix.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-11-11 10:55:14 UTC
Updated the original post. Added Science IV and Thermodynamics III to the advanced/extended skill plan.