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Debating on downsizing from a destroyer to a frigate

Author
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-04 17:19:07 UTC
I am currently trying to save up for a cruiser, but in the mean time I am getting kind of bored with my catalyst. I had thought about downsizing to a frigate and learning how to manuever and fight close. I am only doing missions at the moment. Level 1 sisters of eve missions mainly. I have been running a catalyst with 8 meta 4 125mm rail guns, but it gets kind of boring just picking off rats with one, or a few shots with little effort. I am not ready for PVP yet though.

So, I am trying to figure out how I should outfit and use a fast frigate. I was thinking about using an incursus, but I am not sure about what guns to use. Should I go for blasters or rails? and also what size should I run. I also could use some fitting advice.

Also if ditching my catalyst for a incursus would greatly hurt my ability to earn isk for a cruiser and is a really dumb idea let me know lol!
Adolfina Hitlerion
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-04 17:20:16 UTC
Antonio Steele wrote:
I am currently trying to save up for a cruiser, but in the mean time I am getting kind of bored with my catalyst. I had thought about downsizing to a frigate and learning how to manuever and fight close. I am only doing missions at the moment. Level 1 sisters of eve missions mainly. I have been running a catalyst with 8 meta 4 125mm rail guns, but it gets kind of boring just picking off rats with one, or a few shots with little effort. I am not ready for PVP yet though.

So, I am trying to figure out how I should outfit and use a fast frigate. I was thinking about using an incursus, but I am not sure about what guns to use. Should I go for blasters or rails? and also what size should I run. I also could use some fitting advice.

Also if ditching my catalyst for a incursus would greatly hurt my ability to earn isk for a cruiser and is a really dumb idea let me know lol!


Take kestrel, good missile boat and beautyful explosion.
SevenBitBrian
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-11-04 17:35:28 UTC
Honestly, with the SoE arc the majority of it, if not all of it, is going to be boring and easy in a Frigate just as well as a Destroyer. I'd suggest looking up Eve University, they have some good starter fittings and can help train you up so when you are ready to get into PvP you can leave with the basic knowledge you'll need to survive and get into a corp that's PvP focused. You can also check out fitting on BattleClinic and see what you have the skills to fit now and what you should be training to fit.

7bitworld.org

Jesuis Cache-Cache
#4 - 2012-11-04 20:41:51 UTC
If you are "saving" up for a ship, then I fear you may setting yourself up for a disappointment. I am quite new myself, but to have a mind set of saving for a ship that you could potentially lose at ANY moment, is not a solid financial state to be in.

My personal rule of thumb is..."If I can't afford to buy 10 of them, I am not ready for them."

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny CarsonĀ 

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-11-04 20:56:40 UTC
Afterburner + Gallente Frigate + Blasters

short range weapons so you need the speed to manouver, L1's are a cinch in a frigate so you shouldnt have any issues there either, and the AB will form most of your tank.

throw on a small armour repairer and damage control, and youll only need to watch cap usage while repping.

the whole setup will be dirt cheap, unless you insist on Meta4 mods and then it's just cheap, which is more expensive than dirt-cheap.
J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#6 - 2012-11-04 22:47:20 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
If you are "saving" up for a ship, then I fear you may setting yourself up for a disappointment. I am quite new myself, but to have a mind set of saving for a ship that you could potentially lose at ANY moment, is not a solid financial state to be in.

My personal rule of thumb is..."If I can't afford to buy 10 of them, I am not ready for them."


^ Great attitude.

Rule 1: Don't fly what you can't afford to loose (doesn't have to mean you should have the ISK to replace it, but just agree that you can loose the ship the second you undock it).

As for OP:

Don't fall for the trap of saying you are not ready for PvP.

99% of the people in EVE say I need xxx.xxx.xxx SP before I can PvP or I need xxx.xxx.xxx ISK before I can PvP. And each single time they change the numbers that they filled in on the x's.

You are ready when you want to PvP. A 2 day old character can fly tackle frigates. So it's not something in game that says you are ready for PvP, it's your own goal and attitude.

Sure as a new player you can't fly that T2 cruiser, sure you can't do as much DPS as that 4 year old vet next to you in the fleet. But as long as you have fun while playing EVE, you are doing it right.

Just buy some ships that are in your price range, fit them up and go out and shoot others (and of course be shot at and die a couple of times - hence why you buy ships in your price range).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#7 - 2012-11-05 15:31:21 UTC
SevenBitBrian wrote:
Honestly, with the SoE arc the majority of it, if not all of it, is going to be boring and easy in a Frigate just as well as a Destroyer. I'd suggest looking up Eve University, they have some good starter fittings and can help train you up so when you are ready to get into PvP you can leave with the basic knowledge you'll need to survive and get into a corp that's PvP focused. You can also check out fitting on BattleClinic and see what you have the skills to fit now and what you should be training to fit.


I would suggest not looking up EVE University.

At the risk of sound like a ****, dont get me wrong E-UNI and RvB have had a big influence on a lot of peoples gameplay and have built a rep for themself, the problem stands with the fact its the blind leading the blind.

Mindless blobbing with 10 ECM ships is not going to teach anyone, anything, ever.

If you want to learn how to fit a ship properly, grab EFT and make logical fits, if you want to learn how to pvp take logic steps and procedures.

Grab ship, kerboom. Repeat.
Charles Burger
Reckless Abandon
#8 - 2012-11-05 17:04:37 UTC
Gibbo5771 wrote:
Mindless blobbing with 10 ECM ships is not going to teach anyone, anything, ever.


Agreed, and that is one reason ECM is not allowed in RvB. Except against 3rd party war targets of course.

Incidentally RvB is not an educational establishment like E-UNI is. Sure we offer assistance and help to newbies. But generally if you want to learn PVP with RvB, it will be in at the deep end style.

Who cares if it's the blind leading the blind, as long as all those blind people are having a laugh? If you think we're doing it "wrong" then I suggest you look up sandbox in a dictionary.
Esruc 'Sadim
Lazaretto
#9 - 2012-11-05 18:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Esruc 'Sadim
As far as fitting goes get EFT. Then consider the tactics you want to use. Pick a mod or two that fit into that role and build the rest of the ship to support it.

Edit: I feel I should better explain that. The point of this exercise is to work out what tactics to use for different situations. Think of a scenario you have been in/seen on YouTube/what ever then come up with a tactic to use in it. Take that mind set to eft and build a cheap ship...keep it cheap. You never know what will work until you undock. Then go put yourself in that situation. Keep at it until you have a full tool box.

Insert something witty and clever here

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-11-06 03:49:23 UTC
Gibbo5771 wrote:
SevenBitBrian wrote:
Honestly, with the SoE arc the majority of it, if not all of it, is going to be boring and easy in a Frigate just as well as a Destroyer. I'd suggest looking up Eve University, they have some good starter fittings and can help train you up so when you are ready to get into PvP you can leave with the basic knowledge you'll need to survive and get into a corp that's PvP focused. You can also check out fitting on BattleClinic and see what you have the skills to fit now and what you should be training to fit.


I would suggest not looking up EVE University.

At the risk of sound like a ****, dont get me wrong E-UNI and RvB have had a big influence on a lot of peoples gameplay and have built a rep for themself, the problem stands with the fact its the blind leading the blind.

Mindless blobbing with 10 ECM ships is not going to teach anyone, anything, ever.

If you want to learn how to fit a ship properly, grab EFT and make logical fits, if you want to learn how to pvp take logic steps and procedures.

Grab ship, kerboom. Repeat.


Mindless blobbing with 10 ECM ships is an absolute hilarious way to **** off enemy fleets though.
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-06 04:14:56 UTC
well, I got really lucky and got a L1 mission that resulted in looting some high end gear including multiple battleship sized items. Got several million, and now I am flying a Vexor. Insurance covers most of the cost, and I can easily afford my fittings (Not much different in cost from losing my catalyst lol). I have decent drone skills because I planned ahead. I got 3 sets of 4 light drones (drone skill only 4 right now) and one set of 4 medium drones for heavier targets. I fitted an afterburner of course, along with a cap recharge enhancing thingy, and a shield extender until I figure out a better 3rd mid slot. I threw a explosion resist and multi-resist armor mods on the low slots along with a repairer and damage control. I'm packing 4 dual 150mm rails since they are dirt cheap and are the most viable for level 1 missions. I also threw a drone range boosting thing in my 5th slot.

Don't worry, I can afford to lose it, and I stay strictly in high sec and will for quite a while, and I also avoid auto pilot so that will lessen my chances of dying, but I am prepared if I do.
Ferahgo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-11-06 07:19:02 UTC
You can autopilot high sec just fine (just make sure you don't autopilot .4 and below). And the vexor is an excellent ship, very good choice :). However, gallente is primarily an armor tanking race (some ships can go shield, but you never ever want to combine the two). Armor and drone dps in lows, and for mediums you can use stasis webs/target painters/sensor booster in middle. And one cap recharge won't be as helpful as a medium capacitor battery.
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-11-06 17:23:19 UTC
Ferahgo wrote:
You can autopilot high sec just fine (just make sure you don't autopilot .4 and below). And the vexor is an excellent ship, very good choice :). However, gallente is primarily an armor tanking race (some ships can go shield, but you never ever want to combine the two). Armor and drone dps in lows, and for mediums you can use stasis webs/target painters/sensor booster in middle. And one cap recharge won't be as helpful as a medium capacitor battery.


Yeah, I know gallante are armor tanks, like I said the shield extender is just a spot filler for the moment. I would use a webifier, but I typically don't get close enough to be able to use one. I don't know much about target painters or sensor boosters so I'll read up on those.

As far as capacitor batteries I guess I missed the capacity boost when looking at the stats and got the idea they were only good for energy leech defense, which I thought seemed odd. I'll see about getting one, but maybe not. It all depends on how much cap I eat. My catalyst had more cap issues, and I just swapped the cap recharge from that since it wasn't size dependant.

So, I think I need to work out 2 mid slot choices. As far as low slots, If I change anything for drone DPS I would need to do away with damage control or my repair drone, and I like to always have a repair drone on hand just incase, though I hardly ever need it for missions. Damage control is probably the most expendable as it gives a marginal boost to armor and shield resists, takes cap, and I typically don't bother turning it on. It also provides 50% resist for structure which is good for a last ditch defense while you run away, but I guess I could do away with it.
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-11-08 06:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
After spending some time in my new vexor, I realized that it was taking much longer to do level 1 missions than when I had a smaller ship. I came across the EFT program and played with it until I found a good fitting for an incursus, and I am going thought level 1 missions faster than my catalyst, and having more fun as well.


I went with 3 neutron blasters with an assortment of ammo options depending on situation, A meta 3 afterburner, a webifier to hold down targets, a multi-spectral ECM to make it even harder to hit my already hard to hit ship, and for the low fittings I went for meta 4 Nano adaptive plating, meta 4 energized explosive plating, a 200mm rolled tungsten armor plate, and a meta 4 overdrive. I also have to mention that the speed penalty from the armor plating is rather negligible, especially when you look at the fact that you get a little over 500 more armor HP, and with about 50% resists all around on the armor that is more like adding 1000 HP

With this setup I max out at 1025 m/s and orbit at around 1000m from my target. My guns deal a great deal of damage per volley and often 1 hit mission rats.

I also have only about 100 less effective HP than my catalyst with this setup having 3053 effective HP. The only advantage the catalyst has is range, but even with it's range it still takes longer to run a mission, especially when I need to collect my loot. Also, with the speed I have I can close the gap very quickly.

I think my setup could be considered a speed/ passive armor tank

I just thought I'd post this update so other noobies can see that rushing for a cruiser isn't as amazing as you think. I will still use my cruiser when I need to later on, and I'm happy I bought it, but honestly a well fitted frigate suits me much better at this point in time and is a lot of fun. Also, like I mentioned it beats out my catalyst and can survive better with only 100 less HP, but is A LOT harder to hit.
Esruc 'Sadim
Lazaretto
#15 - 2012-11-08 07:57:50 UTC
Put a damage control on there and swap out the hardeners for rat specific ones. You will do even better

Insert something witty and clever here

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#16 - 2012-11-08 15:13:12 UTC
Antonio Steele wrote:
I just thought I'd post this update so other noobies can see that rushing for a cruiser isn't as amazing as you think.

Bigger is not always better. While bigger guns do have some bigger raw numbers, they also:

  • Are more expensive
  • Are slower, both in speed and agility
  • Have more trouble hitting smaller stuff
  • Have larger signature radius (are easier to target/hit)


Congrats on the discovery! It's not very obvious to most newbies.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
Brotherhood of Spacers
#17 - 2012-11-08 16:17:29 UTC
Focus on the excellent Gallente frigate line for those Lv 1s as those ships will be useful for quite a bit of your career and the training will lead you into their excellent cruiser line. With the recent blaster fix, you see a lot of players "going green' as it were.

I wouldn't worry about your low skill points and finding a player corp. The fact that you're actively posting here displays a passion for the game and a willingness to learn. Those qualities are more valuable than SPs to most recruiters.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts

Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-11-09 05:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
I might actually end up going for an assault frigate. It will be a while before that happens, but I did some experimenting in EFT and found I could fit an inyo to be tougher, faster, and deal more damage than my vexor. However, I could buy a battlecruiser for the price of one lol. It will be a while before I can afford, and afford to lose a ship that costly, and will take at least 2-3 weeks of training to get the skill requirements.
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#19 - 2012-11-09 09:30:42 UTC
Why are you not running lvl 2 or 3's by now?

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-11-09 15:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Antonio Steele
Archdaimon wrote:
Why are you not running lvl 2 or 3's by now?


Because I have only been playing for a couple weeks lol. It takes longer than that to skill up, and get the isk for that stuff. I have only gotten as far as cruisers in ship progression. It will take some time even though keep my skill queue constantly busy.
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