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[Arek'Jaalan] Project Compass Preliminary Results Announced

Author
Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#1 - 2011-09-26 20:58:28 UTC
For those of you looking for a direct link to my report, it can be found HERE.

Fellow Pilots,

For those of you who don't know me, my name is Mark726. I'm an author of a New Eden travelblog and also member of the Multidisciplinary Division of Arek'Jaalan. It is in this latter position that I post these findings today.

For the past six weeks, I have been working on Project Compass. Project Compass has been an attempt to answer some of the most fundamental questions surrounding the mysteries of Anoikis: most notably, where it is located relative to the New Eden cluster and whether there is a temporal differential between New Eden and Anoikis. I have primarily focused on the former.

Over the course of a few weeks, I completely surveyed 24 Anoikis systems, surveying all classes of Anoikis space randomly as wormholes to these systems presented themselves. The star fields from these surveyed systems were then compared to star fields from known space (full methodology is explained in the report). This was an attempt to find extra-system objects that were identifiable both from Anoikis and New Eden.

I am pleased to announce that preliminary results suggest that these efforts were successful. I stress that these results are only preliminary. I await final analysis from Eifyr (Dr. Tukoss's scientific hosts) before drawing definitive conclusions, but Dr. Tukoss has agreed that these preliminary results, while not definitive, are compelling. My full report is available here, while the data I collected can be found here.

While I strongly suggest reading the entire report, two conclusions in particular merit emphasis:

  1. Based on spectroscopic and parallax data analysis, Anoikis is located in a halo surrounding the New Eden cluster. This conclusion is based off of the fact that a star cluster, nicknamed "Orion" for simplicity's sake, has been identified both in Anoikis skymap captures and in New Eden skymap captures.
  2. Anoikis and New Eden are both located in an elliptical or irregular galactic system. To my knowledge, this has never before been postulated by the Capsuleer community (though I welcome any evidence to the contrary). This conclusion is based on the uniform and homogenous distribution of stars across the entirety of the sky, with none of the banding that might be expected in, say, a spiral structure.

I recognize that these conclusions might be somewhat radical in nature, but I believe my methodology has been sound. I welcome any and all comments from the wider Capsuleer and scientific community on either my methods or my conclusions from the available data.

Once again, I stress that these results should only be seen as preliminary. I eagerly await Eifyr's final analysis.

Finally, I wish to thank the Arek'Jaalan community at large for their feedback and support, and more specifically, Pilot Rhavas for his thoughtful critiques and suggestions while putting together this report.

Thank you all for your consideration.
Kiruss Dasun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-09-26 22:55:13 UTC
An interesting discovery, I will have to put aside some time to read through the report more extensively.
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#3 - 2011-09-27 00:03:35 UTC
Congratulations Mark on the completion of this exemplary work.

Mark undertook this arduous and lengthy task to deliver an independent answer to one of the great questions that has hung over New Eden since the Seyllin Incident, something the imperial governments either saw as inexplicably beneath their notice or hid from the capsuleer community. He did this without complaint and in service to the greater knowledge of the scientific community, without expectation of reward.

His results also dovetail with the findings of other Arek'Jalaan projects such as the preliminary efforts that will be forthcoming as Project Tesseract.

Mark, thanks for the opportunity to peer review your efforts. Great work.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Katia Sae
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#4 - 2011-09-27 10:55:36 UTC
What an incredible undertaking and an amazing piece of work so far. If there's anything I can contribute from New Eden's perspective while undertaking my planetary photography, please don't hesitate to ask.

Good luck with your continued research. I look forward to reading the results as they progress.

Fly safe!
Katia
Borascus
#5 - 2011-09-27 12:43:35 UTC
This work from Mark726 is nigh flawless, however were Orion to be situatated in an obserable location from all measured points (placing it in another galaxy) the corroboration would be achieved by identifying locations within the New Eden Cluster relative to the convenient concentric ring around New Eden.


Although I support Mark726's work I feel elaboration of the concentric ring theory would allay any alternative conjecture or interjections from other research bodies further down the line.


The conclusion indicates that Orion resides in another Galaxy (some 3,500 light years away). This distance would allow a more detailed analysis of our neighbouring Galaxy and would also lead towards a more empirical analysis of the relative locations.

I do tend towards agreement that all W-Space systems are outside of the Stargate network, relative to the center of New Eden, however, the spread and deviation only relates to the star formations previously mentioned. Corroborate using identifiable systems in locations that reside parallel to the observation point.

Otherwise the concentric ring has no measurement of loci relative to the galactic plain, it meerely states:- level playing field: these are just over there and around the otherside too.
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#6 - 2011-09-27 13:18:22 UTC
Good thoughts Borascus. The ring hypothesis is probably the only thing in the paper that Mark and I have significantly different ideas about - my own view is that they are either scattered between New Eden's stars (this is supportedthe by the "missing shattered planets" data) or the less likely idea that still fits the evidence is that they could be parallel alternate-dimensional locations, which is supported by the remarkable "twinning" phenomenon in which many Anoikis systems have been found that have stars that are precise matches to k-space stars, with identical planetary counts but of different types.

What I am additionally prepared to state based on Mark's findings is that due to a lack of stellar migration difference in sky patterns between w-space and k-space, there is not a massive time differential between the two. Any time travel or dilation effect is unlikely to be more than a few hundred years maximum, and likely there is no time differential at all.

I am looking forward to Eifyr's official conclusions.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#7 - 2011-09-27 17:00:13 UTC
I'll take this a few paragraphs at a time.

Borascus wrote:
This work from Mark726 is nigh flawless, however were Orion to be situatated in an obserable location from all measured points (placing it in another galaxy) the corroboration would be achieved by identifying locations within the New Eden Cluster relative to the convenient concentric ring around New Eden.


I cannot agree with this more. Indeed, I'm hoping the more in-depth Eifyr analysis will identify known New Eden stars in one of the skymap captures. I do point out in the report that such a discovery would be much more conclusive. Unfortunately, the computer time CAS generously granted me simply did not have the time to perform such an analysis.

Borascus wrote:
Although I support Mark726's work I feel elaboration of the concentric ring theory would allay any alternative conjecture or interjections from other research bodies further down the line.


I'll try to clarify what I can, but are there specific areas of confusion? I'm merely postulating that, based on observed Orion deformation between Pelkia and various Anoikis systems, Anoikis surrounds New Eden.

Borascus wrote:
The conclusion indicates that Orion resides in another Galaxy (some 3,500 light years away). This distance would allow a more detailed analysis of our neighbouring Galaxy and would also lead towards a more empirical analysis of the relative locations.


I should note that a mere 3,500 light years does not necessarily place Orion in a separate galaxy, though that heavily depends on the precise kind of galactic structure New Eden and Anoikis are located in. Elliptical galaxies can be over 100,000 light years across, while even smaller irregular galaxies can be 7,000 light years across. Personally, I suspect that the Orion cluster exists within our own galaxy, but simply beyond the range of our current stargates and whatever spatial anomalies that are causing the wormholes, but without more data that is merely speculation.

Borascus wrote:
I do tend towards agreement that all W-Space systems are outside of the Stargate network, relative to the center of New Eden, however, the spread and deviation only relates to the star formations previously mentioned. Corroborate using identifiable systems in locations that reside parallel to the observation point.

Otherwise the concentric ring has no measurement of loci relative to the galactic plain, it meerely states:- level playing field: these are just over there and around the otherside too.


As I mentioned, I sincerely hope the Eifyr analysis is able to identify some New Eden stars from my Anoikis captures. Even without that, however, I think the evidence is a bit more conclusive than you seem to suggest here (though I'm admittedly a tad biased here). The entire point of Project Compass was to locate Anoikis in relation to New Eden. Locating the larger New Eden/Anoikis complex within the galactic structure will take a much better resolution telescope than I have available in the camera drones, I suspect. I think the fact that we can, in fact, say with some certainty that Anoikis is "just over there and around the otherside too" is a major breakthrough when, as Rhavas pointed out, the Empires hadn't even managed to announce that much.

That being said, I appreciate the thoughtful feedback and I look forward to any other observations/counterpoints you may have.

Rhavas wrote:
The ring hypothesis is probably the only thing in the paper that Mark and I have significantly different ideas about - my own view is that they are either scattered between New Eden's stars (this is supportedthe by the "missing shattered planets" data) or the less likely idea that still fits the evidence is that they could be parallel alternate-dimensional locations, which is supported by the remarkable "twinning" phenomenon in which many Anoikis systems have been found that have stars that are precise matches to k-space stars, with identical planetary counts but of different types.


I should note that the only particular reason I disagree with Rhavas here, at least assuming Anoikis is located within the same dimension (an assumption I cannot, as of now, conclusively prove) is the lack of observable stellar phenomenon within New Eden that is so pervasive in Anoikis. None of the pulsars, black holes, or other phenomena that are so prominent in Anoikis are visible in New Eden. However, they could just be unobservable from my camera drone platforms.
Borascus
#8 - 2011-10-05 00:29:53 UTC
I really appreciate you taking the time to allay my concerns.

I was merely voicing potential refutations that may have detracted from further study; early. I welcome your feedback and any relative distances inferred are impressive, considering the limited potential of extra solar cinematography from a camera drone.


I would once again like to thank you for producing a research document that is carried out so well.
Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#9 - 2011-10-05 04:32:16 UTC
Borascus wrote:
I really appreciate you taking the time to allay my concerns.

I was merely voicing potential refutations that may have detracted from further study; early. I welcome your feedback and any relative distances inferred are impressive, considering the limited potential of extra solar cinematography from a camera drone.


I would once again like to thank you for producing a research document that is carried out so well.


This is what science is all about, after all. Being able to defend myself and my conclusions through logic and data. I certainly appreciate your critiques, and I look forward to addressing any others that anyone may have.
Jon Engel
Machete Carbide
#10 - 2011-10-05 16:41:21 UTC
Having served in the Apex Conglomerate. I often snuck myself into the Starsi assembly lines and stole a can or two right off the line. Some say soft drinks taste the same regardless of age. There is nothing like an ice cold Starsi just minutes after being made at any of the fine Starsi ( a subsidiary of the Apex Conglomerate ) production plants.

Shirah Yuri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-10-19 12:38:32 UTC
Mark726 wrote:

While I strongly suggest reading the entire report, two conclusions in particular merit emphasis:

  1. Based on spectroscopic and parallax data analysis, Anoikis is located in a halo surrounding the New Eden cluster. This conclusion is based off of the fact that a star cluster, nicknamed "Orion" for simplicity's sake, has been identified both in Anoikis skymap captures and in New Eden skymap captures.
  2. Anoikis and New Eden are both located in an elliptical or irregular galactic system. To my knowledge, this has never before been postulated by the Capsuleer community (though I welcome any evidence to the contrary). This conclusion is based on the uniform and homogenous distribution of stars across the entirety of the sky, with none of the banding that might be expected in, say, a spiral structure.



I personally find the analysis intriguing. Personally, I however tend to disagree in the classification of the New Eden galaxy as an irregular or elliptical one. It would appear to me that the majority of (young generation) stars that we find within close distance to each other follow the patterns of a galactic disk. I personally hold intragalactic dust and gas clouds responsible for quenching quite a bit of disk light.

However, with the positional analysis of the Anoikis system locations, I fully concur. It would appear that those systems form the out-of-disk halo population of stars and star clusters in the galactic system of New Eden. This observation is well matched with the observed late-generation nature of many central objects (e.g. pulsars) of Anoikis systems. It would hint that many of those systems were born before a galactic merger that united two galaxies in the past to form the current New Eden galactic halo, flinging copious amounts of galactic matter, gas and even stellar systems from the protogalactic disks into irregular halo orbits.

Whether this galactic merger might have had its influence in the creation of the wormhole we know as Eve and different other phenomena observed would be worth more in-depth study on the subject.

Good work, Mark
Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#12 - 2011-10-19 17:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark726
Shirah Yuri wrote:
I personally find the analysis intriguing. Personally, I however tend to disagree in the classification of the New Eden galaxy as an irregular or elliptical one. It would appear to me that the majority of (young generation) stars that we find within close distance to each other follow the patterns of a galactic disk. I personally hold intragalactic dust and gas clouds responsible for quenching quite a bit of disk light.


It's true that the stellar distribution of New Eden itself is fairly flat, especially compared to it's width or length. There could be any number of reasons why this is so, though i doubt that the Factions are going to be forthcoming on why they expanded only in some directions but not others. However, "height" of New Eden is, at best, only 10 to 20 light years or so (that number is off the top of my head, it may be a bit more than that). Even smaller spiral galaxies have disks significantly thicker than that. I am unaware of galactic pains that are this thin, though I'd be happy to look at research showing otherwise.

Furthermore, there's no proof that even if New Eden is located within a galactic disk that the plane of New Eden matches the hypothetical plane of the galaxy. The various stellar maps I've seen have shown no position relative to the galaxy at large. Even if New Eden is in a spiral galaxy (though personally I disagree with that still), the New Eden plane might be perpendicular to the galactic plane. We simply don't have the proof either way, though if you can point to any observations to that effect, I'll be happy to reconsider my views.

I will grant, however, that you have a point with the interstellar dust. There are large amounts of dust both within New Eden and wormhole space that make further observations difficult. While that certainly does point against an elliptical galaxy (which is typically very gas and dust poor), it by no means rules out irregular galaxies, which also can show prodigious rates of stellar formation and interstellar dust densities. In that respect, infrared observations from New Eden would probably go a long way towards solving that particular mystery, and I may petition Eifyr in the future to help in that regard.

I hope I'm not coming off as too dismissive of your points in this reply. You raise a number of good points (which I intend to mention and address in the Compass final report) and I'm merely trying to defend my theories as much as possible while granting that this is an area of continuing research. As I said above, if you have any particular data in this regard, I'd be happy to reconsider my own views. Unfortunately, I'll be traveling planet-side for the next few days, so any replies may be a bit delayed. I appreciate your critique!

EDITED: to fix formatting
Shirah Yuri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-10-19 21:13:21 UTC
Mark726 wrote:
It's true that the stellar distribution of New Eden itself is fairly flat, especially compared to it's width or length. There could be any number of reasons why this is so, though i doubt that the Factions are going to be forthcoming on why they expanded only in some directions but not others. However, "height" of New Eden is, at best, only 10 to 20 light years or so (that number is off the top of my head, it may be a bit more than that). Even smaller spiral galaxies have disks significantly thicker than that. I am unaware of galactic pains that are this thin, though I'd be happy to look at research showing otherwise.


Yes, indeed, the star cluster we have come to know as New Eden is very flat in distribution, which makes be suspect it would be part of some rotationally supported structure, but doesn't by any means have to be the whole of the structure. Rather, it appears like the star systems of New Eden could have formed on a gas filament that are well known to form in the spiral arms of galaxies. Gas contained in irregular galaxies does not show strong evidence of such flat filamentation, or if it does, it ends up forming a galactic disk inside the galactic halo.

What is true is that if the cluster known as New Eden IS in fact the whole of the disk, such a small galaxy would be unobserved in the sky outside our cluster and would raise questions about what phenomena took a role in the upcoming of it.


Quote:
Furthermore, there's no proof that even if New Eden is located within a galactic disk that the plane of New Eden [[matches the hypothetical plane of the galaxy. The various stellar maps I've seen have shown no position relative to the galaxy at large. Even if New Eden is in a spiral galaxy (though personally I disagree with that still), the New Eden plane might be perpendicular to the galactic plane. We simply don't have the proof either way, though if you can point to any observations to that effect, I'll be happy to reconsider my views.


If we were in fact in the galactic plane, it would very much be likely that the axis of New Eden tends towards the axis of the galaxy it is part of itself, but of course by no means sure.

As for the impact of your observations on the nature of New Eden itself, I think we concur that Elliptical galaxies show different properties than we observe for our direct neighborhood. Whether New Eden now is a diskoid galaxy or in fact an irregular one is hard to make out clearly. Given the few restraints we have on the actual size of the galaxy, it could be rather small and hence likely subject to external distortions that tend to bring forth irregular shapes. Also, I still would not exclude a past merger event to play its role in the current observed properties of New Eden.

If we could get the empires' scientists to collaborate in determining parallaxes in high precision across the diameter of all of New Eden, we might be able to get more exact distance statistics. Unfortunately, the high dust density around New Eden makes spectroscopic and chromatic parallaxes problematic; many significant spectral features seem lost that could lead to interesting insights.






Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#14 - 2011-10-29 17:47:50 UTC
I apologize for the lateness of the reply. Planetside matters took longer than I had anticipated. Before I respond directly to Ms. Yuri's points, I'd like to announce that Project Compass's final report has been postponed. It has come to my attention that new equipment for capsuleer camera drones will be coming soon increasing their ability to detect background interstellar objects ((I'm referring to the coming nebula updates)), with the potential for significant advances in Project Compass. Because of the significant changes that this may cause to my Compass conclusions, I will merely stand on my preliminary report for now, and re-canvass wormhole space systems if necessary once the new equipment is released.

With that out of the way, on to Ms. Yuri's points.

Quote:
Yes, indeed, the star cluster we have come to know as New Eden is very flat in distribution, which makes be suspect it would be part of some rotationally supported structure, but doesn't by any means have to be the whole of the structure. Rather, it appears like the star systems of New Eden could have formed on a gas filament that are well known to form in the spiral arms of galaxies. Gas contained in irregular galaxies does not show strong evidence of such flat filamentation, or if it does, it ends up forming a galactic disk inside the galactic halo.


That is certainly plausible, but I'd feel much more comfortable with that conclusion if there was evidence as to why in particular the Empires expanded the gate network as they did. I'm not personally familiar with the filamentation of gas clouds in spiral compared to irregular or elliptical galaxies. Perhaps I'm putting too much reliance on the point, but I just can't get around the lack of banding that would suggest a location in a spiral disk. However, when the Project Compass final report does come out, I will be sure to note your theory.
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#15 - 2011-10-30 18:39:44 UTC
Mark726 wrote:
Quote:
Yes, indeed, the star cluster we have come to know as New Eden is very flat in distribution, which makes be suspect it would be part of some rotationally supported structure, but doesn't by any means have to be the whole of the structure. Rather, it appears like the star systems of New Eden could have formed on a gas filament that are well known to form in the spiral arms of galaxies. Gas contained in irregular galaxies does not show strong evidence of such flat filamentation, or if it does, it ends up forming a galactic disk inside the galactic halo.


That is certainly plausible, but I'd feel much more comfortable with that conclusion if there was evidence as to why in particular the Empires expanded the gate network as they did. I'm not personally familiar with the filamentation of gas clouds in spiral compared to irregular or elliptical galaxies. Perhaps I'm putting too much reliance on the point, but I just can't get around the lack of banding that would suggest a location in a spiral disk. However, when the Project Compass final report does come out, I will be sure to note your theory.


I think that it's important to note that the largely flat disk of systems in the jump gate network does not necessarily imply a flat distribution of stars. it simply suggests that our ancestors spread out via technological paths in a flat-space direction. Or more to the point, looking at the location of the New Eden system, out and down in a broad disk or very wide-based cone. Distribution is mostly even except for some of the furthest "east" regions like Jove space and Paragon Soul. It is entirely probable that the flat configuration of New Eden is due to technical as much as physical limitations.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Lady Ariona
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-10-31 06:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Ariona
It is a bit intriguing to me that nobody has actually went outright to break the misconceptions of New Eden as a spiral galaxy. However, it's glad to see that this has finally been carried out.

With regards to the spatial distribution of the Anoikis systems and your suggestion, do you have any theories regarding the distribution of fullerenes within New Eden? As we all know, the key to active Sleeper presence is the existence of fullerenes in the Anoikis systems. However, if Anoikis is in some sort of halo surrounding the rest of New Eden, I find myself hard pressed to imagine that Anoikis would have a heavy Fullerene presence, while New Eden proper would not.

Given the amount of deformation carried out in some of the constellations, does it not remain possible that while we are certainly by no means a great distance away due to spectroscopic similarities, that we are indeed within a different galaxy within the same local cluster? I find this result more likely due to the presence of fullerenes. Perhaps it requires a different galactic formation in order to develop fullerenes in the amount that we witness in Anoikis. I understand that you have made some preliminary amounts of deformation, though I find it difficult to consider the parallax calculations to be that accurate without more baselines than just angular seperation changes. We do not have an accurate distance to the Orion asterism, after all.

If necessary, I could petition bringing in a science vessel into Adhocrat space in order to take spectroscopic data from Anoikis systems, in order to confirm this hypothesis further. While I agree that it is likely that they are the same stars in the Orion constellation, I think that we may be able to find some sort of redshift to determine if there is a more significant difference in spatial coordinates between the Anoikis systems and New Eden.

Ideally, we would want to find another galaxy with which to take rotational data, but in the meantime, I believe that the stars in the Orion asterism would serve as enough data to at least come to an immediate result that can be confirmed or disproved by future studies.

Edit: I would like to note that the new nebula data should be sufficient to determine this same result of rotational data from a galaxy. Perhaps you could look for known molecular lines and measure the redshift in order to determine if Anoikis and New Eden are in the same galaxy. While I agree that the results seem to propose being in the same local group, I do not find it particularly convincing on the basis of fullerenes that we are in the same galaxy.

Adhocrat Former Morsus Mihi pilot / E-UNI Graduate

Researcher into Sleeper and Talocan Technology and History

Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#17 - 2011-10-31 18:07:32 UTC
Lady Ariona wrote:
With regards to the spatial distribution of the Anoikis systems and your suggestion, do you have any theories regarding the distribution of fullerenes within New Eden? As we all know, the key to active Sleeper presence is the existence of fullerenes in the Anoikis systems. However, if Anoikis is in some sort of halo surrounding the rest of New Eden, I find myself hard pressed to imagine that Anoikis would have a heavy Fullerene presence, while New Eden proper would not.

Given the amount of deformation carried out in some of the constellations, does it not remain possible that while we are certainly by no means a great distance away due to spectroscopic similarities, that we are indeed within a different galaxy within the same local cluster? I find this result more likely due to the presence of fullerenes. Perhaps it requires a different galactic formation in order to develop fullerenes in the amount that we witness in Anoikis. I understand that you have made some preliminary amounts of deformation, though I find it difficult to consider the parallax calculations to be that accurate without more baselines than just angular seperation changes. We do not have an accurate distance to the Orion asterism, after all.


I must say I never included fullerene distribution into my analysis. I haven't given the problem much thought, but I can't help but wonder if the imbalance in distribution has to do with man-made causes over natural ones. Since New Eden has been occupied by one space faring civilization or another for at least the past few thousand years, it seems entirely possible that fullerenes have been over-mined in known space. In Anoikis, however, we only have evidence of two civilizations inhabiting that area of space, and we don't know how long they were there or when they precisely died out. As I said, it's just a rough idea that occurred to me, and I certainly have no data to back that up either way. If it is due primarily to natural causes, I would certainly be hard pressed as to why there would be a fullerene "hole" in New Eden with a prevalence in Anoikis.

As for your question about whether Anoikis is in a different galaxy given the lack of conclusiveness on the distance of the Orion cluster, I would tend to say Anoikis and New Eden almost have to be within the same galaxy. The Orion cluster are made up of stars, and even the brightest stars would only be visible by camera drones over a few thousand light years. Even given the margin of error, any companion galaxy for Anoikis would have to be very close indeed, and I would have to imagine that any such galaxy containing Anoikis would be visible from New Eden, and vice versa. Again, a natural process for the fullerene distribution would give me cause to reconsider, but based on my data, I find such a possibility remote.

I would certainly welcome any additional data you may be able to add to my collection. Indeed, if it is alright with you, once the new imaging systems come into full deployment, I wonder if it might be possible to gain access to some of your space temporarily in order to perform my own observations? Obviously we have time to settle details of that later, but I would appreciate any help you or your corporation would be able to provide. The last set of data gathering proved rather...harrowing at times, and I will happily use any resources I can to avoid that in the future.

As always, I appreciate the thoughtful comments and I look forward to hearing what you or other capsuleers have to say on the subject.
Lady Ariona
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-31 20:26:44 UTC
Mark726 wrote:
I must say I never included fullerene distribution into my analysis. I haven't given the problem much thought, but I can't help but wonder if the imbalance in distribution has to do with man-made causes over natural ones. Since New Eden has been occupied by one space faring civilization or another for at least the past few thousand years, it seems entirely possible that fullerenes have been over-mined in known space. In Anoikis, however, we only have evidence of two civilizations inhabiting that area of space, and we don't know how long they were there or when they precisely died out. As I said, it's just a rough idea that occurred to me, and I certainly have no data to back that up either way. If it is due primarily to natural causes, I would certainly be hard pressed as to why there would be a fullerene "hole" in New Eden with a prevalence in Anoikis.

As for your question about whether Anoikis is in a different galaxy given the lack of conclusiveness on the distance of the Orion cluster, I would tend to say Anoikis and New Eden almost have to be within the same galaxy. The Orion cluster are made up of stars, and even the brightest stars would only be visible by camera drones over a few thousand light years. Even given the margin of error, any companion galaxy for Anoikis would have to be very close indeed, and I would have to imagine that any such galaxy containing Anoikis would be visible from New Eden, and vice versa. Again, a natural process for the fullerene distribution would give me cause to reconsider, but based on my data, I find such a possibility remote.

I would certainly welcome any additional data you may be able to add to my collection. Indeed, if it is alright with you, once the new imaging systems come into full deployment, I wonder if it might be possible to gain access to some of your space temporarily in order to perform my own observations? Obviously we have time to settle details of that later, but I would appreciate any help you or your corporation would be able to provide. The last set of data gathering proved rather...harrowing at times, and I will happily use any resources I can to avoid that in the future.

As always, I appreciate the thoughtful comments and I look forward to hearing what you or other capsuleers have to say on the subject.


Indeed, I've just recently went over the data once more out of curiosity, and noted that you have accounted for the distance of the stars adequately for a preliminary report. That being said, the farther objects visible to the human eye go out to 2.5 MLyrs, and I can only imagine that the camera drones that we utilize have a greater efficiency than the average, non-upgraded human eye. I'm willing to agree that it is highly likely that we are within the same local group, but that small margin of error can magnify itself immensely in terms of parallax based calculations. If I might suggest, why don't you consider this quick New Eden based calculation to add to your final report? Choose two locations within Empire space that have a known distance between them, and repeat your camera drones to search for the Orion asterism. If the Orion asterism is as close as anticipated, you should be able to witness a stellar parallax that should allow you to, hopefully, determine the distance to the star.

While it is true that we have the Talocan and Sleeper civilizations within Anoikis, I do not think there is enough evidence to suggest that fullerenes were simply harvested out of New Eden to the point that they are no longer visible. If we are looking at an equal distribution of stars, why is it that we do not witness more Sleeper/Talocan ruins within New Eden proper, especially with regards to fullerene based technology? Why only in Anoikis? Those are the sorts of questions I find myself asking, if we are assuming Anoikis is within the same galaxy. I've proposed a study to look into the way fullerenes are utilized within the Talocan/Sleeper ruins between New Eden and Anoikis, but I have not heard back from project leads yet. Perhaps, though, it will verify that the New Eden ruins hold markers of Fullerene based technology to the degree to support your statements that it was a societal removal of fullerenes from space, as opposed to natural distributions.

While I cannot personally offer you access to our space, I could discuss this in the future with the Adhocrats to see if they would be willing to consider this on a one-time basis. If this is not the case, we certainly can modify ships within our space to the settings required for data collection, and then transmit the data to Arek'Jalaan for further research.

Adhocrat Former Morsus Mihi pilot / E-UNI Graduate

Researcher into Sleeper and Talocan Technology and History