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Small Truths: The Gallente

Author
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#1 - 2012-07-20 18:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Luminaire, Gallente Prime, child of warmth and light, whispered what it knew to the Gallente.

A soft land, a kind land, a garden world where the worst people had to fear was each other (and that only a little, for abundance gives little reason to fight), it taught them the small truths, the important lies, that would smooth over their conflicts with their fellows.

No need for rigid hierarchy. No need for painful choices, or tight control, or clannishness, or all-consuming faith. Enough that each should live a life apart, individual, untroubled by the beliefs of others, unless that life should seek to dominate and control, for in a world of plenty the greatest threat is the lingering instinct for hierarchy, the longing for power.

The answer: not anarchy, which invites collapse into rigid order, but a structure of systematically limited control, power bestowed on the many, but power limited to inhibit the tyranny of numbers.

These limits, named as "rights," mark the lines that power may not cross. They are-- they have to be-- universal, or else meaningless. A right must be nuanced to avoid becoming, itself, a tyranny, but a right to be breached at will is unsound material to build a house from.

So the small truth is told that rights are inherent to living humans as breath. This is the great merit of the Gallente. The idea of "rights" tempers their passions, limits the majority's might, and dignifies the individual person. It is when "rights" are embraced even in the face of adversity that the Gallente are at their best. It is when passion overrides structure, and power overrides regard for "inherent" rights, that they are at their worst.

So the important lie is told that rights are inherent to living humans as breath. This, not their passion, is the great tragedy of the Gallente. Seeing that others do not hold with rights that are, to them, inherent-- seeing individuals suppressed, devalued, limited, even owned as possessions-- they object, as they must. Rights are said to be inherent and absolute, independent of culture or ruler, and so they must be protected and fought for, no matter who rules and no matter where.

They tell themselves that what limits their power over one another, the rafters of their house of individuality and freedom, should limit all. This will to spread their belief, though necessary to their own stability, makes them conquerors.

Were they alone in this place, there would be no tragedy arising from this: their way stands well on its own merits. Faced with other ways, however, the small truths that limit the power of human to prey on human become predatory, themselves.

Perhaps if the Gallente told themselves that rights are not forged of starlight, but of thought, if they recognized the human fragility of those agreements about What Power Shall Not Do, there would be no more need to fight. But perhaps the admission that rights are forged by humans, and not by the universe (and so are flawed and subject to rethinking), is the very last that they can afford to make.
Malcolm Khross
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-07-21 16:11:15 UTC
This is the level of insight I have come to expect of you, Aria. If you and I could learn to communicate our insights to one another more carefully, perhaps there would be less strife between us.

~Malcolm Khross

Diana Kim
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#3 - 2012-07-21 18:11:12 UTC
There is so much wrong about these right, I don't know what to start with. Maybe I'll just start from the end.
The main problem is not gallentes became predators, but that they by their predatorship not just take power or minds of peoples, but prevent their advancement, damage efficiency and lower survivability.
I emphasized the word, because it will become the key in my answer.

The space is a harsh place. It is cold, empty and deadly. I am talking not about Caldari Prime, that made up our ancestors, and that is still affecting our minds. The whole universe outside is harsh. All planets are childs of extreme violence. Huge asteroids impact one into another with so strong force, that it melts them. The bigger the planet becomes, the more asteroids wreck into it, the more they melt, the more temperature grows, turning growing planet into big blob of molten rock. This molten rock is covered by tiny crust, on which life can develop. Should another huge enough asteroid hit this planet, the crust will be broken and the molten rock will be ejected, incinerating any life that developed on the unlucky planet. But, well, unlucky is bad word here, because there is no luck here, this is how planets are born and grow, and, eventually, all planets will meet this situation.

The space is harsh everywhere. Not only on such big scale, but on tiny too. Grab any small asteroid, that you can place on your palm, cut a tiny slice and look at it under electronic microscope, you will see it is covered with numerous hit wounds with melted edges. Small, tiny, huge, micro and nano meteorites bombard anything in space.

The life on a planet in space without atmospheric and electromagnetic shield is not possible. And the threat comes not only from debris, but from the whole source of life: the stars. The stars, that give all material in our universe. And by Maker's will some star matter has gained consciousness that became us. The stars are our ultimate parents, they are our source, and they are our end. The stars give us warmth, they give us light, they give energy to all life forms, and they can kill everything. Star is a place with the most harsh conditions in universe. It is a ball of superheated plasma, with temperature and pressure so high, that it fuses atom nuclei one into another. Stars are hungry flame spitting beasts with enormous gravity, that will tear apart and eat anything that comes too close. You all know what a star can do, just remember what happened with Seyllin.

The space is harsh on all levels, and we must be efficient if we want to survive. The Gallente approach is what will lead humanity to disaster, deaths and extinction. For the sake of survivability gallentes must be stopped. There are no "rights" in space, there are no "tyrants", "slaves" and "freedoms". But there are well defined hierarchies of objects, that born, live, evolve and die, as everything else in universe. It is a great machine, where everything takes its designed place, and if you cannot adapt, you will be crushed. There's no place for love and kindness in space, only death and destruction. Today humanity is able to build its own machines, some of these machines can save lives and protect from harshness of space, and others do the same thing as universe itself: they bring death and destruction. The humanity is one of these machines, but, unlike them, we have a rare gift: we can think. Machines and universe act mindlessly, according to plan that Maker or manufacturers bestowed upon them. They don't care about their parts and about their own survival. But we do. We must be harsh enough to eject some parts, to prevent us from falling apart, and we must be smart enough to predict consequences of our actions towards not just ourselves, but for those, who stand near us, and, eventually, for our whole species.

And what for Gallentes themselves, is there a chance to save them? Of course, there is. But nobody can help them except themselves. They have to grow up from their soft and warm cradle, and embrace the world as it is: cold and harsh place. If they start to understand, that all their merits, that they have developed so far, won't help them to survive, but counterwise, they might be saved.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2012-07-21 19:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Khross-haan:

Thank you, sir, and I hope you're right. The trick in all of this is that every civilized person is necessarily raised to believe in a set of small truths. That being so, the real test here is going to be talking about the Caldari, who, having talked about the Gallente, are the logical next step. Talking about the Achura will be another major challenge.

It is easy to look at outsiders dispassionately, more difficult to look at ourselves. Thank you for your support, sir; I hope I will not disappoint you.


Kim-haani:

Hm. That is a thoughtful response. I'll get to theory in a minute, but first: it seems like the strongest rebuttal to your assertions is simply the course of history. The Federation is, has always been, an interstellar power by definition. By your theory, the Gallente Federation should have withered before the First War. The Caldari, not the Gallente, should have naturally emerged as the Federation's masters. How do you account for Gallentean successes in interstellar commerce and politics to date? A fluke? A temporary run of luck-- for hundreds of years on end? That seems ... unlikely.

I think the reason is simply this: most humans do not truly "live in" space. They live in bubbles that they build in space, bubbles that they fill according to their own cultural expectations. Gallentean station architecture is even more literally bubble-like than most, but any visit to any station of any empire has more in common with a visit to one of its planetside cities (particularly a habitat on a hostile world) than to taking a stroll through an asteroid belt.

The only way a stationside human generally has to face the real rigors of space is by ejection from an airlock or destruction of the habitat. Truly, if space were a place humanity was forced to inhabit unshielded, the Gallente would be ill-prepared for it. But then, so would everybody else: even Caldari Prime was not such a hard place.

There are only very few classes of life, or near-life, that come into such close contact with the Black as to start learning lessons from it, Kim-haani. One is the rogue drones. Another is ourselves, the capsuleers.

Near to it though we are, walking its empty halls in metal bodies, the lessons the Black teaches are not lessons that we, as living things, should be trying too hard to learn. The Black does not teach efficiency; that is a planetary lesson. Caldari Prime taught its people well, but it did not teach them to breathe vacuum.

What the Black teaches is annihilation.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-07-21 21:06:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
Came in expecting the old Gallente are bogeymen and the Federation is the ancient evil of the universe rhetoric and was not surprised.

It never ceases to amaze me how you people are frightened of the smallest details about our society, how alien like it must be for you that each individual in the end in her/his own temple and at the same time in frequency with a massive spectrum that takes form as a super state, the Gallente Federation.

It is human nature to fear and hate what they don't understand however.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#6 - 2012-07-21 21:12:14 UTC
You make it sound like the Gallente are some homogeneous entity; you forget that there are millions, if not billions, of Gallenteans who think exactly like how you do. You cannot excuse the Intaki, either, who also hold similar views on individual rights and civil liberties. Most Gallenteans simply do not care for what goes on outside their bubble. What you're addressing is a form of foreign policy, of coating realpolitik with some sort of ideological front.

But tell me, Aria, when was the last time the Federation exported its values directly to another sovereignty? The last power that was guilty of this was the Caldari State, back in 111. Your military landed troops on worlds that haven't seen the hand of interstellar government in years, you replaced their local authorities with puppet regimes, and established a formal system of meritocracy according to the Provist model. While Federation-based corporations may be guilty of similar things, you forget these are corporations, and do not represent the Federation or its peoples. Quafe, for example, employs millions of Caldari citizens as the unofficial 'ninth megacorporation', with full domestic sovereignty.

Mekhana is quite correct; you specifically refer to the Federation as a non-homogeneous entity, yet refer to it as a homogeneous entity. The Federation is what people make of it.

Do not confuse culture for politics, or vice versa.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#7 - 2012-07-21 22:16:07 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Luminaire, Gallente Prime, child of warmth and light, whispered what it knew to the Gallente.

A soft land, a kind land, a garden world where the worst people had to fear was each other (and that only a little, for abundance gives little reason to fight), it taught them the small truths, the important lies, that would smooth over their conflicts with their fellows.

No need for rigid hierarchy. No need for painful choices, or tight control, or clannishness, or all-consuming faith. Enough that each should live a life apart, individual, untroubled by the beliefs of others, unless that life should seek to dominate and control, for in a world of plenty the greatest threat is the lingering instinct for hierarchy, the longing for power.

The answer: not anarchy, which invites collapse into rigid order, but a structure of systematically limited control, power bestowed on the many, but power limited to inhibit the tyranny of numbers.

These limits, named as "rights," mark the lines that power may not cross. They are-- they have to be-- universal, or else meaningless. A right must be nuanced to avoid becoming, itself, a tyranny, but a right to be breached at will is unsound material to build a house from.

So the small truth is told that rights are inherent to living humans as breath. This is the great merit of the Gallente. The idea of "rights" tempers their passions, limits the majority's might, and dignifies the individual person. It is when "rights" are embraced even in the face of adversity that the Gallente are at their best. It is when passion overrides structure, and power overrides regard for "inherent" rights, that they are at their worst.

So the important lie is told that rights are inherent to living humans as breath. This, not their passion, is the great tragedy of the Gallente. Seeing that others do not hold with rights that are, to them, inherent-- seeing individuals suppressed, devalued, limited, even owned as possessions-- they object, as they must. Rights are said to be inherent and absolute, independent of culture or ruler, and so they must be protected and fought for, no matter who rules and no matter where.

They tell themselves that what limits their power over one another, the rafters of their house of individuality and freedom, should limit all. This will to spread their belief, though necessary to their own stability, makes them conquerors.

Were they alone in this place, there would be no tragedy arising from this: their way stands well on its own merits. Faced with other ways, however, the small truths that limit the power of human to prey on human become predatory, themselves.

Perhaps if the Gallente told themselves that rights are not forged of starlight, but of thought, if they recognized the human fragility of those agreements about What Power Shall Not Do, there would be no more need to fight. But perhaps the admission that rights are forged by humans, and not by the universe (and so are flawed and subject to rethinking), is the very last that they can afford to make.


I found it quite interesting. Could you do it with the Caldari State too ?
Shiv Mahon
Chicas Perdidas
#8 - 2012-07-22 00:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiv Mahon
I read your words as a poem, and I was moved by them.


Thank you. You speak my heart with words better than I ever could, and my fears.



If I may, I would like to address those that will follow afterwards with their comments about Evil Gallente.... I would like to state that ours has always been a reactionary society.

I learned in school that when the Amarr fell upon us, in the first struggle, we rose and resisted, Surprising them despite their numbers and strength.

Later, we found a word for our struggle: "Freedom." Something we... I... Burn for today.
I mean really. We never force war on anyone. We simply will not fold before tyranny.

Later I learned that we found friends in the stars who were also struggling. Our ideas formed from the struggle as we joined with them. It isn't that we went looking for a fight to pitch our ideals to the Universe, and force them upon you all. We are not slavers!

I am Gallente. I will fight for your right to ignore me, and spit at my name and all that I stand for. if you want nothing to do with me then that is your right. If someone else tries to take those rights away from you - then in me you will find your fiercest ally.

That is what the Amarr did not know, so long ago. It is what so many still forget today. It is not because we must, but because we are.

I know this doesn't help and you will laugh. I'm not a poet. But I believe it to be true.
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#9 - 2012-07-22 04:03:09 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Near to it though we are, walking its empty halls in metal bodies, the lessons the Black teaches are not lessons that we, as living things, should be trying too hard to learn. The Black does not teach efficiency; that is a planetary lesson. Caldari Prime taught its people well, but it did not teach them to breathe vacuum.

What the Black teaches is annihilation.


You look at space and see "the Black". I look at space and see "Home". The lessons we choose to learn from it - and we do choose them - are not the same.

I do respect your opinions, Aria, but if you really think the lessons you choose to take away from a given environment are the same lessons "living things" in general will learn from it, I think you would do well to search yourself for some of the same cultural imperialism you seem so wary of in others.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#10 - 2012-07-22 05:35:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Ms. Mekhana, General Inhonores:

Necessarily, my remarks are an outsider's perspective. I could write to please your ear, to try and be true to how you see yourselves, but that would not be true to my purpose.

Small truths are structural precepts that underlie a civilization. They are the stories from which national identity and common purpose are forged, lessons learned from a certain context that become central to a people's identity. They are fictions, but direly important ones, and their effectiveness depends on the inability of large segments of the population to identify them as in any way fictitious.

It is no surprise if those who are members of the source civilization do not agree that these "small truths" are fictitious. I am, however, disappointed that you apparently regard the attention as unambiguously hostile. Perhaps you'll like it better when I discuss small truths of the Caldari and Amarr.


Natalcya Katla wrote:
... if you really think the lessons you choose to take away from a given environment are the same lessons "living things" in general will learn from it, I think you would do well to search yourself for some of the same cultural imperialism you seem so wary of in others.


As you well know, Ms. Katla, I number myself one of the Demented, and for good reason. You and I have long agreed that there is something poisonous, something monstrous, in the character of the average capsuleer.

I know you have not forgotten this. I also know that you are understandably reluctant to blame your favorite astropolitan habitat for that. Fortunately, I do not think we are talking about the same things.

You grew up on a succession of stations, yes? And came to know and love the people you found there, to appreciate especially the continuities, the samenesses, from station to station? The qualities spacers have in common?

If I understand you properly, then when you speak of a "home" in space, you speak of islands: places of warmth, light, and life, the ships and stations that are home to so many.

When I speak of the Black, I speak of the sea: the sterile near-nothing that lies between, emptier and more hostile than any planetary ocean.

Humans have been occupying their orbital habitats and deadspace installations for centuries, with relatively little apparent effect. Capsuleers, on the other hand....

Your beloved astropolitan culture has nothing to fear from my "cultural imperialism," Natalcya. Nor have they much to fear from the whispering Black-- though they might have something to fear from those whose souls the Black whispers to.


Shiv Mahon wrote:
I read your words as a poem, and I was moved by them.

Thank you. You speak my heart with words better than I ever could, and my fears.


Your praise humbles me, Ms. Mahon. It appears that our thoughts are not one and the same, but you seem to have understood where General Inhonores and Ms. Mekhana could not. If a Gallentean can find some truth here, then perhaps my understanding is not too far wrong.


Lyn Farel wrote:
Could you do it with the Caldari State too ?


I mean to try, Ms. Farel.

The really tricky one is going to be my own people. My faith, like a lot of Achur spirituality, is highly compatible with reason and scientific understandings of the universe, but ... well, there is a reason even the Crystal sect is still a "faith," after all.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2012-07-22 10:23:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Shiv Mahon wrote:


I learned in school that when the Amarr fell upon us, in the first struggle, we rose and resisted, Surprising them despite their numbers and strength.

Later, we found a word for our struggle: "Freedom." Something we... I... Burn for today.


There has never been any real armed conflict between the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation to my knowledge, except the recent rogue attack of Kador forces on Solitude, if a rogue vassal of the throne acting illegaly can be considered as the "Amarr Empire" of course, which is highly discutable.

I am not sure of what you are refering to, actually ? The diplomatic cold war that happened shortly after the Federation and the Empire met, just before Atioth when the Empire annexed an isolated and untouched minmatar colony ?
Diana Kim
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#12 - 2012-07-22 11:59:31 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Hm. That is a thoughtful response. I'll get to theory in a minute, but first: it seems like the strongest rebuttal to your assertions is simply the course of history. The Federation is, has always been, an interstellar power by definition. By your theory, the Gallente Federation should have withered before the First War. The Caldari, not the Gallente, should have naturally emerged as the Federation's masters. How do you account for Gallentean successes in interstellar commerce and politics to date? A fluke? A temporary run of luck-- for hundreds of years on end? That seems ... unlikely.

I think the reason is simply this: most humans do not truly "live in" space. They live in bubbles that they build in space, bubbles that they fill according to their own cultural expectations. Gallentean station architecture is even more literally bubble-like than most, but any visit to any station of any empire has more in common with a visit to one of its planetside cities (particularly a habitat on a hostile world) than to taking a stroll through an asteroid belt.

The only way a stationside human generally has to face the real rigors of space is by ejection from an airlock or destruction of the habitat. Truly, if space were a place humanity was forced to inhabit unshielded, the Gallente would be ill-prepared for it. But then, so would everybody else: even Caldari Prime was not such a hard place.

There are only very few classes of life, or near-life, that come into such close contact with the Black as to start learning lessons from it, Kim-haani. One is the rogue drones. Another is ourselves, the capsuleers.

Near to it though we are, walking its empty halls in metal bodies, the lessons the Black teaches are not lessons that we, as living things, should be trying too hard to learn. The Black does not teach efficiency; that is a planetary lesson. Caldari Prime taught its people well, but it did not teach them to breathe vacuum.

What the Black teaches is annihilation.

I didn't mean it to be so literal. I really don't expect us (or gallentes) to start hugging some asteroids (no offense for miners, but, well...) and walk in vacuum without protection. I was talking about fundamental aspects of the life and existence itself. Gallentes are too infantile, there aren't enough selection in their bubbles, every filth is nurtured as healthy species, that is the main cause of their degradation and, eventually, will lead to their extinction.

And I would like to 'rebut your rebuttal'. They are still descendants of Garoun Empire, although slowly turning into grey mass, before the First War they were formidable power, and mostly because of their numbers. Just compare the State and Federation several hundreds of years ago and now. Gallente president run and abandoned their subordinates, and Caldari forces struck in the heart of Federation. The Federation is crumbling. Much smaller Caldari has achieved superiority over larger stagnating Federation. Why? This is simple, while Federation was degrading, nurturing its useless 'merits', Caldari were advancing. Gallentes has already lost the war. Unfortunately, they couldn't accept it even after all their systems in the warzone had fallen. But there's one option left: to destroy them. To kill, burn, pillage, pop their bubbles, tear apart, cut, slash and hack. And when more lifes will be taken, they understand, that the universe was not made for them. It is in their own interest to understand it before their crystal spires will fall down in flames.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#13 - 2012-07-22 13:14:14 UTC
I accept - and am glad to hear - that you're not trying to paint astropolitan populations in the color of your Black. And you are right that we agree, to a large extent, on the existence of and dangers posed by capsuleer dementia.

I also accept your comparison between space and planetary oceans. Where I don't agree with you is when you step beyond that analogy to seemingly argue that space is so much harsher and more hostile than an ocean that it becomes downright sinister in itself.

Oh, I'll readily agree with the saying bandied around by many veteran crewpeople, that "space is a harsh mistress". There's no doubt about it. A relatively simple mistake or malfunction could potentially cause the deaths of thousands, and if you find yourself stranded with no hope of help arriving, you're effectively dead. But if a comparable situation happens in a planetary ocean, aren't your chances of survival comparable, too?

Maybe in some situations, an ocean is more forgiving of misfortune than space is. But in others, I suspect it is actually less forgiving. I have never been in a planetary ocean, but I do remember reading about Nouvelle Rouvenor in school, and what it looked like - in vivid, disturbing detail, complete with pictures - after somebody let the ocean in. That always seemed far more horrible and destructive to me than a comparable hull breach in a space station would be. And yet you find no shortage of people willing to romanticize the sea. It's the same with space.

I wonder, given the same political realities, only on a planetary scale, and given the same license to roam and kill (and the same luxury of infomorph resurrectability), would we capsuleers be any less demented if, instead of piloting ships through space, we were prowling the deep ocean in combat submarines? I somehow doubt it.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2012-07-22 15:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Natalcya Katla wrote:
I wonder, given the same political realities, only on a planetary scale, and given the same license to roam and kill (and the same luxury of infomorph resurrectability), would we capsuleers be any less demented if, instead of piloting ships through space, we were prowling the deep ocean in combat submarines? I somehow doubt it.


Perhaps not. Depending on how far this technology eventually goes, maybe we'll find out someday, though the comparative strategic advantage of orbital strikes makes planetary naval warfare a little ... out of date.

Perhaps someone who spent most of her time as, functionally, a fish would wind up as strange as we do. But I think there would still be a difference of degree: people can swim in many oceans unprotected, and an ocean is nothing like as appallingly vast. You speak of the lethality of deep water, under pressure, and correctly, but the ocean's methods of killing are not automatically absolute. They boil down to having too much of a good thing in the wrong place. That might mean a pressurized jet that cuts like a blade or just plain old drowning.

The Black has too little of pretty much everything, it is literally as vast as space, and it kills more or less on contact-- everybody but the rogue drones, ourselves, and maybe a few entities, like the Sleepers, we don't understand well enough to describe. The fact that we only contact it via a neural shunt that functionally turns a ship into a surrogate body is immaterial. When I say that it whispers to us, I don't mean that as some kind of spiritual temptation, even if the effect is similar. I mean that the circumstances we live in inform who we are.

The circumstances of the Black are distorting. The only victims we actually see ourselves destroying are faceless bubbles: the lives within remain largely unseen. And it's all so very, very small, you know? Who cares about a few bubbles, lost in infinity?


Ms. Kim:

Low numbers have been a Caldari weakness for a long time, but let's remember that this is a matter of degree. I haven't seen the census figures lately, but each empire's population stands well into the hundreds of billions, if not trillions, and we've been doing our utmost to even the odds with such fun undertakings as the creche program (and as somebody who spent a good year in one of those as an orphan, let me just say: it needed work. Lots and lots of work).

I agree that what you name as Caldari virtues are largely virtues, Ms. Kim, but I think you misunderstand the nature of Gallentean liberality. A few years back, the State hit a crisis point and could easily have crumbled into civil war. Why? Because a few of our elites decided that what the State really needed was to convert that troublesome old meritocracy into a proper plutocracy. Who needs the disadvantaged scaling the corporate ladder after you, right?

Because our leaders failed us, our civilization nearly went to pieces right there. Tibus Heth has been good for the State in that he's restored it to a functional, um, state. The tendency towards rigidity remains, however.

It's hard to imagine the Gallente suffering a similar crisis.

It's soft and corruptible (or maybe "changeable"), but resilient, versus hard and efficient, but brittle, Ms. Kim. Each is anathema to the other, but each has its merits.
Shiv Mahon
Chicas Perdidas
#15 - 2012-07-22 16:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiv Mahon
Lyn Farel wrote:
Shiv Mahon wrote:


I learned in school that when the Amarr fell upon us, in the first struggle, we rose and resisted, Surprising them despite their numbers and strength.

Later, we found a word for our struggle: "Freedom." Something we... I... Burn for today.


There has never been any real armed conflict between the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation to my knowledge, except the recent rogue attack of Kador forces on Solitude, if a rogue vassal of the throne acting illegaly can be considered as the "Amarr Empire" of course, which is highly discutable.

I am not sure of what you are refering to, actually ? The diplomatic cold war that happened shortly after the Federation and the Empire met, just before Atioth when the Empire annexed an isolated and untouched minmatar colony ?


I refer to ancient history..... First contact between the larger, agressive Amarr empire, and a younger Gallente race that wondered what had just fallen on it from the skies.

http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/File:Timeline_amarr.jpg

23180 was the first contact between a race that pursued aggressive enslavery of all it encountered, and a smaller determined race of people that looked up at the sky and hoped that this new entity came in friendship.
Guess which team I'm rooting for in that Holovid?

Not much is written about those times - but it's pretty plain that the Amarr didn't just look at the Gallente and think "Hmm - no point enslaving them, they are so liberated and joyous we should leave them to their happy dance!"

We reacted. We became. We are. Gallente.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2012-07-22 17:03:22 UTC
Shiv Mahon wrote:
I refer to ancient history..... First contact between the larger, agressive Amarr empire, and a younger Gallente race that wondered what had just fallen on it from the skies.

http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/File:Timeline_amarr.jpg

23180 was the first contact between a race that pursued aggressive enslavery of all it encountered, and a smaller determined race of people that looked up at the sky and hoped that this new entity came in friendship.
Guess which team I'm rooting for in that Holovid?

Not much is written about those times - but it's pretty plain that the Amarr didn't just look at the Gallente and think "Hmm - no point enslaving them, they are so liberated and joyous we should leave them to their happy dance!"

We reacted. We became. We are. Gallente.


Ah, dear me ...

I'm afraid that bit of history is a little more complicated, Ms. Mahon. I suppose the Gallente were technically younger, but by that time you'd already not only made interstellar contact with multiple other civilizations, but established the Federation-- and, what's more, driven the rebellious Caldari from their homeworld in Luminaire, an event they never forgot or forgave. The Caldari and Gallente had lived as neighbors for six hundred years by then. The war had already been underway for 25 years, and would continue for a further 68.

Only a century or so has passed since the last war ended, a short time as the Caldari count it.

You may have reacted to the Amarr, but you were no happy-go-lucky innocents. We all had learned much of struggle and grief by then, and there was more to come. Decades more.

And now, we are again at war.
Shiv Mahon
Chicas Perdidas
#17 - 2012-07-22 17:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiv Mahon
Aria Jenneth wrote:


Ah, dear me ...

I'm afraid that bit of history is a little more complicated, Ms. Mahon. I suppose the Gallente were technically younger, but by that time you'd already not only made interstellar contact with multiple other civilizations, but established the Federation-- and, what's more, driven the rebellious Caldari from their homeworld in Luminaire, an event they never forgot or forgave. The Caldari and Gallente had lived as neighbors for six hundred years by then. The war had already been underway for 25 years, and would continue for a further 68.



But everybody knows the Caldari left the federation because they wanted to print their own money? Or something?
We simply didn't want corporations telling us how to go about our business, as I try and understand it. That's a tyranny as well.
It must be! How can a corporation put my needs above its own?

I'm still reading. I hope to learn more about this.

But I have no real ill will towards Caldari, despite the conflict. I love some Caldari. I hate some others (But no more than I hate my sisters for example).

I just think there was a miscommunication along the way.

I can't say for sure for everyone else, but I believe the real struggle is against tyranny.
And the Federation is not a Tyrant, it is simply as big as the tyrants out there, so it can match them.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2012-07-22 18:23:53 UTC
Shiv Mahon wrote:
But everybody knows the Caldari left the federation because they wanted to print their own money? Or something?


That's a long story. I'll try to explain it at length in a future writing (the Caldari were more shaped by the Gallente than the reverse).

Quote:
We simply didn't want corporations telling us how to go about our business, as I try and understand it. That's a tyranny as well.

It must be! How can a corporation put my needs above its own?


At the time, the Caldari megacorporations mostly just wanted to go their own way. It was a war of secession.

Now, well, it's a limited war of territorial control. Who knows where it will end up?

Quote:
I just think there was a miscommunication along the way.


Of a kind, perhaps. Hard as it may be, I think the real misunderstanding is the notion on either side that the two peoples are really very much alike, if they would only open their eyes.

People are people, yes, but different people live differently.

In this war, having open eyes means that I can look my enemy full in the face, admit to her humanity and the validity of her ideas and way of life, and admit also that, under other circumstances, we might have been good friends. And then shoot her in the head.

That I admit to the validity of your way of life does not mean that I will make peace at the expense of my own.

Quote:
I can't say for sure for everyone else, but I believe the real struggle is against tyranny.

And the Federation is not a Tyrant, it is simply as big as the tyrants out there, so it can match them.


That depends on how you define "tyranny," Ms. Mahon. If you mean autocratic control, then you're quite right. If you mean being forced to watch your carefully-ordered, efficient society dissolve because other options designed to distract and lure individuals away keep eroding your numbers, well....

We Achura are traditionally reclusive and not very materialistic. In this last respect, even the Caldari can become a little hard to deal with, because they have trouble understanding why we don't care about profits and keep trying to sell us shiny toys. Even taking that into account, however, we get along well: the Caldari understand that a people is more than a crowd of individuals.

The Gallente dignify the individual even at the expense of the people as a whole, and have trouble seeing why that's troublesome. To those of us who value our traditions highly, that becomes a type of tyranny, itself.

General Inhonores doesn't care to admit that there's a problem here: to him, the individual is the basic unit and true face of humanity, and groups of individuals are welcome to be as un-individualistic as they like. In this, he's moved from wondering what the problem is (which I liked, a lot) to declaring that there is no problem. He's given up on trying to work out why an individualistic culture looks about as inviting to some of us as a bath of 12-molar hydrochloric acid.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#19 - 2012-07-22 18:46:15 UTC
Your capacity to reject an individualistic culture is apart of one's own individualism. The Caldari are only against individualism because other Caldari tell them that they are. Besides, collectivism instigated from one's own free will is far more commendable than collectivism forced by a corporate dictatorship. The Caldari are socially conditioned to be collectivist; as I've said before, no one is born anything.

While individualistic cultures may create or even encourage undesirable societies, the ability to discern between good or bad is retained. Telling everyone what to do, the basis of a control state like Caldari, may produce results, but it removes the ability to think for oneself.

Anyway, what you call "tradition" is just dead people's baggage. This is how humanity maintains its cycle of revenge. We learn from the mistakes of history, but we don't let it control us, something the Provists and Patriots have a hard time understanding.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#20 - 2012-07-22 19:31:07 UTC
A story with a sadness reminiscent of the Cold Wind tale.

I guess it could be another reason why I no longer felt at home in the Fed: I no longer have the will to spread my beliefs. (Although I sometimes wonder if this will to spread our beliefs is little more than posturing, I think this will is somewhat inversely proportional to our individuality and freedom. (And I guess you could call me an example of that hypothesis, as I have gained excessive amounts individuality and freedom, but along the way I've lost my will to spread my beliefs, even though that was originally part of the reason for gaining said freedom. But then again, my small truths were at odds with the Gallentean ones before I became a capsuleer.))
I also realize that rights are not forged out of starlight, but I always thought that was a lesson the Black may have taught me. Or maybe it was it's brother, the Grey.

But I'm not convinced the picture you paint here is completely accurate , Aria. Not that I think you would think it is.
Rights have an interesting relationship with freedom and individuality. I therefor think that the "small truths that limit the power of human to prey on human" have not become predatory, they were predatory to start with. And perhaps even cannabalistic.

Dear Aria, some of your comments here... I have to control myself to responding to those here, as I don't want derail this discussion, but let's just say that I find them chillingly enigmatic. I look forward to our next talk.
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