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Crime & Punishment

 
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CCP please reduce GANKING!

Author
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#1 - 2012-07-11 15:44:27 UTC
I posted this in the Dev blog but thought at page 44 it may not get read. So I made this thread to remedy that.

I like the new changes to the mining barges specifically.

I am not sure, that it will solve the ganking issue in high sec though.

I would suggest a slight modification to the current security status levels. Anyone can get ganked in 1.0 just as easy as in 0.5 atm which seems a little wrong IMO.

Why even have a sec status rating for these systems. You might as well just give it 3 statuses.

2.0 High sec
1.0 low sec
0.0 null sec

With the current system why not add advanced aggression from Concord and belt patrols for 1.0-0.8 space. You try and lock someone, you get a warning....you choose to actually lock them, Concord attacks you.

0.7-0.5 you can lock them, but you fire and you get Concorded. No belt patrols, but still patrols at gates and Stations.

0.4-0.1 Concord will respond eventually, so time for the ganker to retreat.

Null sec....well stays null sec.

The above are just a basic layout to make the security system actually mean more in the game. Just an idea. It does need to be looked at though and I would welcome any change at all. My idea is just an example.

The potential for people quitting the game will go down significantly.

The old heads wont quit because they cant gank folks in 1.0 systems anymore, but I am sure relatively new players have quit from being ganked after they spent all their hard earned isk just to lose it 10 minutes later to a ganker prick.

Risk vs reward comes into play as the more rare and expensive ore would be located in the lower sec systems.

I should not be getting evemail from a Goon saying I have to pay him for protection to mine in HIGH sec space.

Cops do not wait for a bank robber to execute their hostage before storming in to take said robber down. They send in the SWAT team at the first available opportunity. Security guards are there to prevent a crime, not exact retribution after the fact.
Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-07-11 15:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vellen Thoss
Osirus Bayne wrote:
I posted this in the Dev blog but thought at page 44 it may not get read. So I made this thread to remedy that.

I like the new changes to the mining barges specifically.

I am not sure, that it will solve the ganking issue in high sec though.

I would suggest a slight modification to the current security status levels. Anyone can get ganked in 1.0 just as easy as in 0.5 atm which seems a little wrong IMO.

Why even have a sec status rating for these systems. You might as well just give it 3 statuses.

2.0 High sec
1.0 low sec
0.0 null sec

With the current system why not add advanced aggression from Concord and belt patrols for 1.0-0.8 space. You try and lock someone, you get a warning....you choose to actually lock them, Concord attacks you.

0.7-0.5 you can lock them, but you fire and you get Concorded. No belt patrols, but still patrols at gates and Stations.

0.4-0.1 Concord will respond eventually, so time for the ganker to retreat.

Null sec....well stays null sec.

The above are just a basic layout to make the security system actually mean more in the game. Just an idea. It does need to be looked at though and I would welcome any change at all. My idea is just an example.

The potential for people quitting the game will go down significantly.

The old heads wont quit because they cant gank folks in 1.0 systems anymore, but I am sure relatively new players have quit from being ganked after they spent all their hard earned isk just to lose it 10 minutes later to a ganker prick.

Risk vs reward comes into play as the more rare and expensive ore would be located in the lower sec systems.

I should not be getting evemail from a Goon saying I have to pay him for protection to mine in HIGH sec space.

Cops do not wait for a bank robber to execute their hostage before storming in to take said robber down. They send in the SWAT team at the first available opportunity. Security guards are there to prevent a crime, not exact retribution after the fact.



Concord are not police, they are not there to make sure you can take your kids to the park and not get mugged.

They are, and always have been a reactive mechanic to penalize people who attack in highsec.

Sorry, dont AFK mine; and if you see people warp to your belt in combat ships (you can configure your overview so you can see these things), just warp away. Always have a safe point you can warp to quickly without having to fiddle with menus. Just because its high sec doesn't mean its ever safe.

If youre gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.
Alice Shimaya
Special Weapons and Tactics.
#3 - 2012-07-11 15:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Shimaya
First!

Edit: crap, second :( Nevertheless, here we go again on this topic.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#4 - 2012-07-11 15:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Osirus Bayne
I dont AFK mine. You still can get ganked easily in high sec and sit and watch the show.

Just because Concord is that way now does not mean it has to stay that way.

I bet CCP would keep alot more active subscriptions with some form of safety, somewhere in the game.

This is just a suggestion as to how that could/should happen.
Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-07-11 15:53:08 UTC
Alice Shimaya wrote:
First!

Edit: crap, second :( Nevertheless, here we go again on this topic.



Actually, I think that was my honor.
Kirtar Makanen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-07-11 15:54:19 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:

Cops do not wait for a bank robber to execute their hostage before storming in to take said robber down. They send in the SWAT team at the first available opportunity. Security guards are there to prevent a crime, not exact retribution after the fact.

CONCORD is more equivalent of the police, not security guards, but as noted above are not a perfect analogue. Even sending a SWAT team at the first opportunity doesn't keep you alive in real life if someone is just there to kill you and leave. You should be glad that unlike real life avoiding police/CONCORD isn't a viable option.
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#7 - 2012-07-11 15:56:05 UTC
If someone wants to gank you, they're going to, regardless of patrols, superweapons, giant space-station-moons, and forum banter. Remember the high-sec gank of the freighter? They just tossed ship after ship until it died, regardless of Concord interference (that was a few years ago, if I recall correctly). Quite a feat. No matter what you do, the only way to be 100% safe in EVE is to isolate yourself in-station, don't touch the market, don't touch contracts, don't do anything.

And where's the fun in that?

You fly, you take risks. Looking at your little reference to SWAT teams waiting on bank hostages...

The POLICE are not in your house until after the thief breaks in. It's up to YOU to defend your home.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#8 - 2012-07-11 15:57:28 UTC
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#9 - 2012-07-11 16:00:33 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
If someone wants to gank you, they're going to, regardless of patrols, superweapons, giant space-station-moons, and forum banter. Remember the high-sec gank of the freighter? They just tossed ship after ship until it died, regardless of Concord interference (that was a few years ago, if I recall correctly). Quite a feat. No matter what you do, the only way to be 100% safe in EVE is to isolate yourself in-station, don't touch the market, don't touch contracts, don't do anything.

And where's the fun in that?

You fly, you take risks. Looking at your little reference to SWAT teams waiting on bank hostages...

The POLICE are not in your house until after the thief breaks in. It's up to YOU to defend your home.



In null sec that makes sense because it is your home... In high sec though it is another matter. Putting belt patrols and changing the mechanics would reduce gankers. They would have to atleast risk something viable and put forth some effort to ruin your week.
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#10 - 2012-07-11 16:00:39 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.


IF the cop is there to begin with. Remember, CONCORD does not know your intentions until the first shot is fired. Targeting is not a punishable offense. If it were, imagine how many neutral remote-reppers would die every day...

Like I said, the first line of defense is YOU. That's what CCP did designing EVE. This is not an NPC-driven game, it is a player-driven sandbox. Whatever YOU put in is what YOU get out. If you put in unwillingness to defend your own ships, be proactive against getting nuked by a gang of gankers, then...sucks to be you.


Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-07-11 16:00:52 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.



CONCORD are not flown by people. CONCORD is an AI reaction to aggression in high sec. They are not there to patrol the beat and make sure everyone is safe and sound and tucked in tight.

Empire/Highsec =/= free from risk.

Instead of changing the way the game works, why not improve the way you play and get smart about these things. No one ever wants to take responsibility for their own actions, everyone wants to blame something else.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#12 - 2012-07-11 16:03:35 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.


IF the cop is there to begin with. Remember, CONCORD does not know your intentions until the first shot is fired. Targeting is not a punishable offense. If it were, imagine how many neutral remote-reppers would die every day...

Like I said, the first line of defense is YOU. That's what CCP did designing EVE. This is not an NPC-driven game, it is a player-driven sandbox. Whatever YOU put in is what YOU get out. If you put in unwillingness to defend your own ships, be proactive against getting nuked by a gang of gankers, then...sucks to be you.





Exactly! So put some cops there in a HIGH sec rated area. Why would you need neutral remote rep in a HIGH sec area?

It doesnt take a gang of gankers...it takes one.
Andy DelGardo
#13 - 2012-07-11 16:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
I think OP is a troll, but if not, u might as well realize that games and game mechanics are not rationalized by real world examples? The game company mainly wants to make profit, so as long as they do they do something right :p
If it's a good company they may even have "providing entertainment" on there agenda, but only if they still make profit.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#14 - 2012-07-11 16:05:30 UTC
Vellen Thoss wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.



CONCORD are not flown by people. CONCORD is an AI reaction to aggression in high sec. They are not there to patrol the beat and make sure everyone is safe and sound and tucked in tight.

Empire/Highsec =/= free from risk.

Instead of changing the way the game works, why not improve the way you play and get smart about these things. No one ever wants to take responsibility for their own actions, everyone wants to blame something else.



I know what they are. I am not denying that fact. That's why I am proposing a change.

So you agree that 1.0 and 0.5 are the same when it comes to ganking a Hulk then.....
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
#15 - 2012-07-11 16:05:35 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.


IF the cop is there to begin with. Remember, CONCORD does not know your intentions until the first shot is fired. Targeting is not a punishable offense. If it were, imagine how many neutral remote-reppers would die every day...

Like I said, the first line of defense is YOU. That's what CCP did designing EVE. This is not an NPC-driven game, it is a player-driven sandbox. Whatever YOU put in is what YOU get out. If you put in unwillingness to defend your own ships, be proactive against getting nuked by a gang of gankers, then...sucks to be you.





Exactly! So put some cops there in a HIGH sec rated area. Why would you need neutral remote rep in a HIGH sec area?

It doesnt take a gang of gankers...it takes one.



Putting the reactive NPCs in a belt won't help keep you alive. I refer to, once again, the freighter gank. CONCORD was already there from the first shots fired, but the gank-squad persisted through the ship losses until the target was dead. That's what they do. They blow you up because they can. And they can because they'll do whatever it takes to do.
Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-07-11 16:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vellen Thoss
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Vellen Thoss wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.



CONCORD are not flown by people. CONCORD is an AI reaction to aggression in high sec. They are not there to patrol the beat and make sure everyone is safe and sound and tucked in tight.

Empire/Highsec =/= free from risk.

Instead of changing the way the game works, why not improve the way you play and get smart about these things. No one ever wants to take responsibility for their own actions, everyone wants to blame something else.



I know what they are. I am not denying that fact. That's why I am proposing a change.

So you agree that 1.0 and 0.5 are the same when it comes to ganking a Hulk then.....



How about... no.

Learn to not AFK mine and learn to be more vigilant. Why should CCP change a game system to suit a player who refuses to take responsibility for his actions (or inaction in your case) that led to them losing an asset.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#17 - 2012-07-11 16:09:11 UTC
Andy DelGardo wrote:
I think OP is a troll, but if not, u might as well realize that games and game mechanics are not rationalized by real world examples? The game company mainly wants to make profit, so as long as they do they do something right :p



True, but my point is they would make much more if they were to consider this possibility. When you are new to a game, you want some reward for your time.... Not the potential to lose it in a heartbeat. I guarantee lots of people quit because they get ganked one too many times and get fed up with the BS.

Why stay in highsec with all your skills and awesome ships to pick on the vulnerable and new folks. Exploit them. That really shows how awesome you are at the game. Makes you so much better than the new guy.

They pay their money the same as you do, they should have a voice too.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#18 - 2012-07-11 16:10:58 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.


IF the cop is there to begin with. Remember, CONCORD does not know your intentions until the first shot is fired. Targeting is not a punishable offense. If it were, imagine how many neutral remote-reppers would die every day...

Like I said, the first line of defense is YOU. That's what CCP did designing EVE. This is not an NPC-driven game, it is a player-driven sandbox. Whatever YOU put in is what YOU get out. If you put in unwillingness to defend your own ships, be proactive against getting nuked by a gang of gankers, then...sucks to be you.





Exactly! So put some cops there in a HIGH sec rated area. Why would you need neutral remote rep in a HIGH sec area?

It doesnt take a gang of gankers...it takes one.



Putting the reactive NPCs in a belt won't help keep you alive. I refer to, once again, the freighter gank. CONCORD was already there from the first shots fired, but the gank-squad persisted through the ship losses until the target was dead. That's what they do. They blow you up because they can. And they can because they'll do whatever it takes to do.


ya they persisted through numerous losses. Not just 1 ship. THis is what gankers do. No planning, no skill just exploitation. Your example is not even remotely on the same subject as what I am saying.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#19 - 2012-07-11 16:12:20 UTC
Vellen Thoss wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Vellen Thoss wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.



CONCORD are not flown by people. CONCORD is an AI reaction to aggression in high sec. They are not there to patrol the beat and make sure everyone is safe and sound and tucked in tight.

Empire/Highsec =/= free from risk.

Instead of changing the way the game works, why not improve the way you play and get smart about these things. No one ever wants to take responsibility for their own actions, everyone wants to blame something else.



I know what they are. I am not denying that fact. That's why I am proposing a change.

So you agree that 1.0 and 0.5 are the same when it comes to ganking a Hulk then.....



How about... no.

Learn to not AFK mine and learn to be more vigilant. Why should CCP change a game system to suit a player who refuses to take responsibility for his actions (or inaction in your case) that led to them losing an asset.


You don't get to tell me no. And I dont afk mine. Lol
Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-07-11 16:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vellen Thoss
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Andy DelGardo wrote:
I think OP is a troll, but if not, u might as well realize that games and game mechanics are not rationalized by real world examples? The game company mainly wants to make profit, so as long as they do they do something right :p



True, but my point is they would make much more if they were to consider this possibility. When you are new to a game, you want some reward for your time.... Not the potential to lose it in a heartbeat. I guarantee lots of people quit because they get ganked one too many times and get fed up with the BS.

Why stay in highsec with all your skills and awesome ships to pick on the vulnerable and new folks. Exploit them. That really shows how awesome you are at the game. Makes you so much better than the new guy.

They pay their money the same as you do, they should have a voice too.



This game is not for people who expect to PVE without any risk. Sorry, its been made clear on thousands of occasions. You will get ganked, you will lose your ships, you will probably get podded at times.

This is a game where you have to play smart and adapt.

Don't like it? There's the door. No one will hold your hand and say "We are sorry, those big bad meanies in highsec killed you because you were watching the first two seasons of adventure time and eating hot pockets while mining and not paying attention to who warps into your belt, we will get right on it and make it so no one can attack you because you cant learn to pay attention to the overview and watch out for players in combat ships who warp into your belt"
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