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Epic Fail in EVE

First post
Author
Azaru Shepard
The Omega Directive.
#1 - 2012-06-14 20:36:15 UTC
So I started playing a month ago, and I've been mining and saving my cash while training to get a mining barge. Today my goal was realized when I bought my Retriever and equipped it with 2 strip miners and 5 mining drones. I was finally going to get to do some serious mining and work my way towards a hulk. So as I'm flying back to my home in Deepari, I get a message from a guy named Ugly about joining the Hard Rock Miners. He talks to me for about 15 minutes about their goals and such and he seems like a really nice guy. I dock at the starbase and join their corporation. About 5 minutes later he asks me to come to the asteroid field in Deepari .9 space. I figure we were going to do some mining as a corporation, so I warp on over. As soon as i reach the field, 3 green ships from my corporation warp field me, and ask me for 8 million isk. Of course i don't have that much, and they proceed to destroy my month of work with Concord doing nothing at all to help me. That was a cheap and dirty way of killing a newbie, and there is no reason that it should even be allowed in the game. Canceled my subscription immediately afterwards.
Luis Graca
#2 - 2012-06-14 20:38:42 UTC
CCP is on a rampage to protect newbs petition then you may get you ship back

Black Bellamy
The Crips
#3 - 2012-06-14 20:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Bellamy
1) You were invited into a corp, did you look them up? They formed six days ago and have 12 members. If you want to join a mining corp, you need something larger, with a history and a reputation, not this fly-by-night shoot-the-newbs gang.

2) did you look up their leader? he's got a security status of -0.5 - that's not a friendly miner right there

3) you had no insurance?
Azaru Shepard
The Omega Directive.
#4 - 2012-06-14 20:42:21 UTC
I had just used all my money to purchase the ship. It was 1.8mil to insure my ship, and I was just starting to mine again to get enough to get it insured. So basically lost everything I had.
Tevar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-14 20:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tevar
Azaru Shepard wrote:
I had just used all my money to purchase the ship. It was 1.8mil to insure my ship, and I was just starting to mine again to get enough to get it insured. So basically lost everything I had.



#1) Never undock what you can't replace
#2) Don't be a high sec miner righ now cause... Hulkageddon????
#3) Politely explain the situation to the folks in the corp you joined and see if they were kidding or will help you? BE POLITE!
#4) Sorry for your loss mate.

When I was bran spanking new I tried to autopilot from Hemitar to Jita... lol... got podded lost my only ship... The pirates after a quick chat, sent me 3x the amount of that ship, explained what I had done wrong, what happened, and how to set up autopilot to never send me through lowsec again...

I was polite and I also understood that pirates gonna pirate... and I kind of admire pirates... not an easy life...

be polite...
Azaru Shepard
The Omega Directive.
#6 - 2012-06-14 20:52:58 UTC
Tevar wrote:
Azaru Shepard wrote:
I had just used all my money to purchase the ship. It was 1.8mil to insure my ship, and I was just starting to mine again to get enough to get it insured. So basically lost everything I had.



#1) Never undock what you can't replace
#2) Don't be a high sec miner righ now cause... Hulkageddon????
#3) Politely explain the situation to the folks in the corp you joined and see if they were kidding or will help you? BE POLITE!
#4) Sorry for your loss mate.



So like I said I just started the game. The game tells you you're pretty safe in 1.0 and .9 space. I always made sure I never attacked anyone, never stole from containers, and when people flipped my cans, i just took the loss. No where was it explained that I should beware of joining a corporation because they could kill me with impunity regardless of what sector security was. I explained to them that I was new, I had no other cash, and the fact that I was immediately destroyed after saying that shows they weren't kidding. The whole point of this is, EVE is not going to get or maintain new memberships if they let the new player base be totally abused like this. I went above and beyond to make sure that no one could kill me, yet I still lost everything to a bunch of unscrupulous people who took advantage of a newbie.
Velkis Karn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-14 20:58:22 UTC
Tevar wrote:
#1) Never undock what you can't replace


Exactly what I was thinking. What happened to you sucks for sure, but it is part of the game. It is a harsh, brutal universe and people are not out to be your cuddle buddy sorry to say. The golden rule of Eve is to never fly what you can't afford to easily replace. If it will stress you out and make you fill with rage to lose something, never leave the station with it. Like Black Bellamy said, do not join newly formed player corps unless they are real life friends of yours. Look for corps with large numbers that have been around for a while. You can research this using the Corporations button on your UI sidebar. While you canceled your sub and got angry, those other guys that did it to you were laughing on voice chat and drinking beer and remembering why THEY play the game (to be douches). Just like real life, some people live to be douchebags. Don't let them ruin your day, just fly smart. Take this as a learning experience and start again. You already have the skills (cloned I hope?) So you can collect ISK pretty easily through missions and be back to where you were fairly quickly. The skill training is what takes the longest, and if you keep your clone updated (cheap) you won't lose those.
Azaru Shepard
The Omega Directive.
#8 - 2012-06-14 20:58:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Azaru Shepard
Tevar wrote:
Azaru Shepard wrote:
I had just used all my money to purchase the ship. It was 1.8mil to insure my ship, and I was just starting to mine again to get enough to get it insured. So basically lost everything I had.



#1) Never undock what you can't replace
#2) Don't be a high sec miner righ now cause... Hulkageddon????
#3) Politely explain the situation to the folks in the corp you joined and see if they were kidding or will help you? BE POLITE!
#4) Sorry for your loss mate.

When I was bran spanking new I tried to autopilot from Hemitar to Jita... lol... got podded lost my only ship... The pirates after a quick chat, sent me 3x the amount of that ship, explained what I had done wrong, what happened, and how to set up autopilot to never send me through lowsec again...

I was polite and I also understood that pirates gonna pirate... and I kind of admire pirates... not an easy life...

be polite...


If I had flown through lowsec space and got jacked by pirates that's one thing, being abused in 1.0 space is another story. Real pirates I admire, life is not easy for them living in lowsec. Unscrupulous people praying on the newbies in 1.0 space is a whole different story...

Velkis Karn wrote:
While you canceled your sub and got angry, those other guys that did it to you were laughing on voice chat and drinking beer and remembering why THEY play the game (to be douches).


Yes I was angry but let them drink their beer and gloat. The point is I'm sure I'm not the only one that was killed in this manner, and for EVE to let people abuse the system this way is a sure way to lose new members. Obviously a game can't give new players everything they want, but they should at least be safe in the 1.0 space as long as they dont attack other people or steal things, etc.
Zoe Athame
Don't Lose Your Way
#9 - 2012-06-14 21:01:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Athame
Azaru Shepard wrote:
Tevar wrote:
Azaru Shepard wrote:
I had just used all my money to purchase the ship. It was 1.8mil to insure my ship, and I was just starting to mine again to get enough to get it insured. So basically lost everything I had.



#1) Never undock what you can't replace
#2) Don't be a high sec miner righ now cause... Hulkageddon????
#3) Politely explain the situation to the folks in the corp you joined and see if they were kidding or will help you? BE POLITE!
#4) Sorry for your loss mate.



So like I said I just started the game. The game tells you you're pretty safe in 1.0 and .9 space. I always made sure I never attacked anyone, never stole from containers, and when people flipped my cans, i just took the loss. No where was it explained that I should beware of joining a corporation because they could kill me with impunity regardless of what sector security was. I explained to them that I was new, I had no other cash, and the fact that I was immediately destroyed after saying that shows they weren't kidding. The whole point of this is, EVE is not going to get or maintain new memberships if they let the new player base be totally abused like this. I went above and beyond to make sure that no one could kill me, yet I still lost everything to a bunch of unscrupulous people who took advantage of a newbie.


You say you went above and beyond to not be killed but you don't even know the rules of aggression?

EVE is hard. We like it this way. Obviously the players and CCP want new customers but we can only go so far to help you without ruining EVE's integrity. EVE is not for everyone and you not given a promise that you will enjoy it. If it's not for you, don't feel bad, just find a more casual game.
Tevar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-06-14 21:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tevar
Azaru Shepard wrote:
[quote=Tevar][quote=Azaru Shepard]
So like I said I just started the game. The game tells you you're pretty safe in 1.0 and .9 space. I always made sure I never attacked anyone, never stole from containers, and when people flipped my cans, i just took the loss. No where was it explained that I should beware of joining a corporation because they could kill me with impunity regardless of what sector security was. I explained to them that I was new, I had no other cash, and the fact that I was immediately destroyed after saying that shows they weren't kidding. The whole point of this is, EVE is not going to get or maintain new memberships if they let the new player base be totally abused like this. I went above and beyond to make sure that no one could kill me, yet I still lost everything to a bunch of unscrupulous people who took advantage of a newbie.


Yea... eve is huge... the rulesets are immense... the learning curve is vertical...
and no one can hear you cry in space...

personally, I run every highsec mission like Im on a pvp op in lowsec and I expect to lose my ship every time I undock, and I also can't aford to replace it... although it is insured at least... although I doubt it would help much.

Sadly the safest thing you can do as a miner right now is join a nullsec corp and go mine for them. You won't make as much isk but you will survive to play another day and they will teach you and protect you...

The trick thou... is researching the corp your gonna join and then SEEK THEM OUT... never ever sign up with anyone that contacts you first... as you just learned.

Once again sorry for your loss... hang tough... why not run some missions while you look for a nice corp to go mine for.

Also never carry more than 100k on your ship... I have jettisoned really nice loot cause Im too afraid to try to get it out of dead space.
Azaru Shepard
The Omega Directive.
#11 - 2012-06-14 21:06:06 UTC
Zoe Athame wrote:

EVE is hard. We like it this way. Obviously the players and CCP want new customers but we can only go so far to help you without ruining EVE's integrity. EVE is not for everyone and you not given a promise that you will enjoy it. If it's not for you, don't feel bad, just find a more casual game.


Yes EVE is hard. How is not letting corporation members kill you in 1.0 space ruining EVE's integrity?
Sun Win
#12 - 2012-06-14 21:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sun Win
Azaru Shepard wrote:
If I had flown through lowsec space and got jacked by pirates that's one thing, being abused in 1.0 space is another story. Real pirates I admire, life is not easy for them living in lowsec. Unscrupulous people praying on the newbies in 1.0 space is a whole different story...


This is your first and most important lesson in Eve: people play by ALL the rules.

The pirates of Eve aren't swashbuckling fun times Erroll Flynn pirates, we are rusted hull, desperate Somalian pirates.

You had a hard loss and I feel sorry for you. Now one of two things will happen. You'll either decide that this kind of game is thrilling and you'll stick around, or you'll stay firm in your conviction that it's not for you. Good luck either way.


Azaru Shepard wrote:
Yes EVE is hard. How is not letting corporation members kill you in 1.0 space ruining EVE's integrity?


Letting corpmates shoot each other is a great way to test fittings. It's really the only safe way. You are trying to legislate away ignorance and bad decision making. It can't work. Accept that you made a mistake. It's just a game. Play on or move on.
Zoe Athame
Don't Lose Your Way
#13 - 2012-06-14 21:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Athame
Azaru Shepard wrote:
Zoe Athame wrote:

EVE is hard. We like it this way. Obviously the players and CCP want new customers but we can only go so far to help you without ruining EVE's integrity. EVE is not for everyone and you not given a promise that you will enjoy it. If it's not for you, don't feel bad, just find a more casual game.


Yes EVE is hard. How is not letting corporation members kill you in 1.0 space ruining EVE's integrity?


It seems you are getting hung up on this one loss. To put this into perspective, veteran players have lost hundreds of ships and billions of ISK over their play-time.

Like others have said, you could have avoided this loss by not joining a shady corp and by knowing that inter-corp PVP is not punished by CONCORD. However, every loss can not be avoided and you will get blown up a lot. You are left with two choices, learn from your mistake or quit playing.

EVE, like real life, will not change for you, you adapt to it or you die (repeatedly, in EVE).
Equus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-06-14 21:32:28 UTC
I am not going to repeat everything that has been said, as I am in agreement with most.

I don't know if it was mentioned but it might be worth CCP looking into adding a corp-ish section in the beginner's tutorial? Or maybe just one of those warnings that explains some of the pitfalls of corps, like those you get when you enter low-sec for the first time, that can later be disabled to help new players understand part of the risk they take when joining a corporation.

That way the rules of engagement still apply, but there is at least some warning to a newb who may not have done all their research.

Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#15 - 2012-06-14 21:34:15 UTC
That is quite valuable lesson you know. Few lessons actually.

1. using expensive ship while having empty wallet is bad
2. joining a corp without doing any kind of research is more than bad
3. trusting people just because they are nice to you in chat is terribad

The best you can do is to learn from your mistakes.
In the future you just need to be more careful. When in doubt - ask on the forums or specialized chat channels.
Lazarus Malen
MILITEK
#16 - 2012-06-14 21:36:05 UTC
There's nothing else I can say that others' haven't. Learn from this experience, and grow.

But first, give yourself some space to cool down. If you want to give it another go, contact me in game and I'll send you some money to get you back on your feet.
Azaru Shepard
The Omega Directive.
#17 - 2012-06-14 21:47:10 UTC
This will be my last post on here, and I'll just sum up some things. Thanks to everyone that had sympathy for me, and especially Lazarus who offered me money. However the game is uninstalled and the subscription canceled. The game being hardcore is great I really liked that. A system that lets people take advantage of newbies is not however. Let this just be a heads up to any other newbie that was looking for a new game to call home. All I wanted to do was be part of a mining corp and enjoy the company of other people while having fun.


Two kids that don't know each other walk into an arcade. They both end up playing the same game together for hours.

Kid 1:Hey lets go next door they got better games there
Kid 2:Sure lets go

Kids walk past a security guard next door. Kid 1 pulls a gun out on Kid 2. Security guard sees this, thinks hey they came into together, its cool. Kid 1 shoots Kid 2 in the face and kills him.

Everyone else: He should have known better.
Lazarus Malen
MILITEK
#18 - 2012-06-14 21:55:07 UTC
Azaru Shepard wrote:
This will be my last post on here, and I'll just sum up some things. Thanks to everyone that had sympathy for me, and especially Lazarus who offered me money. However the game is uninstalled and the subscription canceled. The game being hardcore is great I really liked that. A system that lets people take advantage of newbies is not however. Let this just be a heads up to any other newbie that was looking for a new game to call home. All I wanted to do was be part of a mining corp and enjoy the company of other people while having fun.


Two kids that don't know each other walk into an arcade. They both end up playing the same game together for hours.

Kid 1:Hey lets go next door they got better games there
Kid 2:Sure lets go

Kids walk past a security guard next door. Kid 1 pulls a gun out on Kid 2. Security guard sees this, thinks hey they came into together, its cool. Kid 1 shoots Kid 2 in the face and kills him.

Everyone else: He should have known better.


Even though you won't be responding to this, I'm going to post anyway.

I'm sorry you came to that conclusion after your experience. The fact of the matter is, the systems are in place for a reason. As others pointed out, corporation members need a way to test out fittings. Could the system be improved or changed? Sure. Is it worth the time and effort? Arguably, no.

Being a hardcore game means that the systems can and will be exploited. Along the way, you will be a victim of this exploitation. But, this is part of the design. For those who want to be the unscrupulous types, they can. For those of us just trying to make a buck and get by, we have to keep an eye out.

Personally, I prefer this. I'm tired of MMOs where the amount of risk is completely manageable. I like the types, similar to UO, where your decisions, for good or bad, made a direct impact on your experience. In your case, you didn't know that corporation members could fire on one another without CONCORD intervention. Now you do - so I know you won't make that mistake again.

But, your final statement is incorrect, in my opinion. People aren't saying "you should have known better". They're pointing out all of the mistakes you made, and teaching you how to avoid those mistakes in the future. They're arming you with knowledge to protect yourself in the future from the same kind of scam/situation.

So, it's not "you should have known better" - it's "hey, that sucks, been there, done that, here's how you learn from it and do better in the future". Quite frankly, that's just life. And similar to life, this game is unforgiving at times. I personally wouldn't have it any other way.

Take care, and good fortune in whatever game you go to now. o7
Tokaj Sunshine
Causa Ignota
#19 - 2012-06-14 21:56:11 UTC
You say that you went above and beyond to make sure that you couldn't be killed. Wrong. There is no way to be certain of that. Every time you undock, there is a probability of someone shooting at you. Even corporation members.

Trust no one, and doing just a little bit of research would have raised red flags about that corp. Had you done that research, you wouldn't have joined.

If you can't afford to buy, fit, and insure at least 5-10 copies of a ship, you can't really afford it. Don't spend all your money on a single ship.
Todd Zilla
Low Fidelity
#20 - 2012-06-14 22:13:04 UTC
Eve is all about experiential learning. There's just no way to prepare folks for every possible scenario out there.

What you have experienced has actually made you stronger and more knowledgeable about the game.

Yeah it sucks to lose your ship and all your isk, but everyone who has played EvE has taken brutal losses. Some recover, grow stronger and adjust, some do not.

But, I suppose this is pointless since you have already unsubbed. Good Luck. Hope you find a game that caters to your needs.
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