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Learning implants ruined my life

Author
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#1 - 2012-05-28 02:11:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
So I have come to the conclusion that learning implants ruined my game in EvE, and not just my game, but a lot of other peoples' games as well.

So here's the story; for the past two or three weeks I have not been logging into the game very much at all, and when I have it was just to engage in general chit chat in alliance or its leadership channels, very rarely undocking from station except for perhaps refuelling a POS.

Boredom had taken a hold. I just sat there, watching the skill training queue tick away, scrolling through the other 450+ days of training I had planning in EHQ in order to finish up my support skills, then drones and gunnery.

I was so frustrated with the game that something inside me snapped, f**k it, I thought, and I started looking through my clones until I found an empty one - I stopped my training queue and jump cloned into it. My face dropped as I saw just how much of a hit my training queue had taken.

Ye know what? It was the start of perhaps the best 24 hours I've ever had in my 2 years of EvE.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#2 - 2012-05-28 02:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
I headed straight for Jita, and bought myself a rupture and fitted it out. It cost 30 million ISK for a bog standard T2 AC fit, had god-awful EHP but not bad DPS, and a flight of ECM drones. I saved the fitting, this, I figured, would not be the last one I would need. Oh man, I called that one right.

I spent the rest of the evening solo roaming through Geminate and into Etherium Reach, I killed a random cyno frigate that was following me around, and then came up against a Curse flown by the CEO of another alliance and he kicked my ass; no capacitor makes a MWD somewhat useless to try and get on top of someone to apply damage. Down went my shields, my EC-300s not able to hit a jam cycle... and then.. he let me go. Spared, because he thought "Ruppy" the Rupture was a good choice of name for my ship.

So yeah, wow. I'd dodged a bullet, and so I thanked him and moved on.

Eventually I encountered a system with a bunch of people in it, and one of them struck up a conversation, telling me that there had been a big battle there earlier that day, his coalition vs the one next door... hmm interesti... wait, is that assault frigate coming towards me? 20 jumps from the nearest support and I had an assault frig and a Rifter on me, with BCs appearing on D-Scan heading towards the gate I'd warped at 100 too.

Battle time! Burning around, trying desperately to burn away to reduce their transversal, trying to land a cycle of the medium neut on them, heart racing, hand shaking, I got a lucky hit and sucked his capacitor dry, his MWD was off, 3 cycles of the guns and he was down, scratch one retribution. He wasn't even at 50% structure before I'd moved my neut and point over onto the next target, a rifter.

Pointed. Neuted. But he'd got in close, tracking with 425s was almost impossible, and by this time I'd started taking heavy fire from a Drake, Omen, Eos and Omen. They had me tackled at 24km? Long points, my MWD was still available! I hit the overheat button and pulsed it, shooting out in front of the rifter just long enough to line up a couple of cycles on him at low transversal. Boom!

Then I exploded.

Now usually at this point I would be in panic mode; let's face it, there is little fun about trying to navigate your way through 20+ jumps of null and lowsec, trying to save your implanted pod, but that would be the situation I would usually find myself in, and fortunately for me I've been fairly lucky in the past, always managing to burn out of the edge of a dictor bubble just before my ship went pop, or the enemy having more important things to worry about than my pod.

I sat there, and less than a minute later, I was back in Jita fitting up my next Rupture and heading out once again. No need to try and pod it back to save some learning implants.

This time I had figured out a shortcut, taking advantage of a friendly -A- station system I managed to get straight into ER, only to run into another curse, except this time it was in an incursion system at 100% influence. Before I could align out I was hit by the rats, the curse decloaked, my cap was gone, and the Sanshas had me in hull before the first volly of missiles from the curse hit.

Bye bye Rupture #2. I warped off to a planet before I could be locked again, and hit the self destruct. 2 or 3 minutes later I was back in Jita fitting up another ship to go back. That one didn't end well either; I ended up running into a Legion of xxDEATHxx gatecamp, complete with interdictor and Falcon; as you might expect, I died. POD didn't stand a hope this time either and pop, up in smoke it went.

To cut a long story short, after downtime the fun continued, except this time it was in Providence going after CVA and friends. I even got an agreed 1v1 with another Rupture from ROL, and won, only to have the glory snatched away by some noob from Nulli Secunda who wanted to get in on the kills.

Camping HED, going on a roam comprised of 4 or 5 other alliances, and ended up dying in a 12 vs 20 fleet fight at the Kari gate, it was fantastic stuff... (p.s. volition cult, stop playing gate games with your logistics).

Then, with 2 hours left on the jump clone timer, I met back up with the pilot of the Rupture I had killed earlier in the day, and who had returned to Y-MPWL after being in the earlier roam fleet. He was now trying to kill VC solo in a drake, and despite our two alliances technically being -5 for reasons defying understanding, we decided to form a 2 man fleet and see if we could get any kills against our mutual enemies.

80m ISK of damage inflicted on a thorax, manticore and condoor later, and my final ship of the day exploded as a cyno went up to bridge in the enemies' cavalry.

I was very, very happy.



So what does this have to do with implants ruining my life, you say?

Well it's simple; a few hours ago my 24 hours was up, and I jumped back into one of my +4 learning clones to get my training back on track. As I did so I thought to myself how I only really had the opportunities for fun I had today because I was in an empty pod.

In order to have fun in the game I had to sacrifice the rate at which I could use new parts of it.

So even after losing 7 ships, the only dissapointment I was left with was knowing that, in the long run, it still made more sense to stay in my learning clone, away from just-for-fun PvP.

That's why learning implants ruined my life.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#3 - 2012-05-28 02:15:10 UTC
A +3 for the primary attribute and maybe +2 for the secondary isn't that expensive is it?

I bought a bunch of those for my character to use :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Moonasha
Orcses and Goblinz
#4 - 2012-05-28 02:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonasha
I really wish they'd take 3s,4s, and 5s out, and give a default +3, or at least introduce a more cheap way to keep the bonuses. Maybe a more expensive clone grade. Perhaps keep +1 and +2s in at a reasonably high price. It feels like implants are as cumbersome yet necessary as learning skills... I don't know how many !!FUN!! fleets have sucked because people left when en route to null sec, because they were afraid to lose implants.
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-05-28 02:39:30 UTC
+3s are fine for general training and you should only have 2 of them in at a time meaning it's like 15mil max loss if you lose the pod...

Or you could just grow some balls ;)
A LOT of PVP only people run with multi BIL isk pods all the time.
Especially these days when isk is so stupidly easy to get that it's more or less a non issue.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#6 - 2012-05-28 02:40:07 UTC
After this experience, which I chose to share, I personally think that one of the single best ways of getting more people involved in PvP would be if all attributes were set either +3 or +4, and the learning implants removed from the game.

Snakes, Slaves, Crystals etc all have perfectly reasonable combat uses, they offer a significant benefit in combat to the player, and should remain in game as is, perhaps other sets could be added too.

But as for the learning implants themselves... no, get rid of them.

@Alavaria Fera - If memory serves the cost comes to around 14m ISK for the +3 / +2 set for whatever I am training at the time. But that's going to be adding 50% on to the cost of a T1 cruiser, and doubling (or more) the cost of a frigate.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-28 02:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
If you play the game long enough you will find implants are actually an optional item.
And if you play even longer you will find that training is also optional.

Don't get caught up in the must fly the biggest and most expensive ship in the game.
If you do you will miss the point of actually playing the game.

Better to have fun today then to spend 6 months or a year sitting in station cause you think flying ship x will be the boss.


There isn't a problem with implants in the game.
THe problem is with the players who think SP's are the equivalent of Levels in other games.

THis is EVE there is no level 80
Zoe Athame
Don't Lose Your Way
#8 - 2012-05-28 02:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Athame
I wouldnt really mind seeing them taken out of the game, but I also don't mind having them in. You shouldn't really be losing your pod in hi/losec and in null you still have jump clones.

I can see why it causes people to avoid PvP but that's a personal problem and not an implant problem.

CCP can remove implants, but they can't remove player fear. The players must do that themselves.
Emiko Luan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-28 02:48:35 UTC
+3s are pvp implants. you only need 2 :P

+welcome to my world+ http://emikochan13.wordpress.com http://emikochan13.deviantart.com

Jinkii Visser
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-05-28 02:52:42 UTC
Implants are something that i see as clunky and kind of messed up from early eve. They should be independent of jump clones.
There should be like racks of implants say like 5 (id even go 10) of them. You add your implants to whatever rack and you choose which rack you want to activate at a fitting station (near carrier, pos or station). Then maybe some timer like 2hrs before being able to change your active rack again.
Why? Because there are so many implants that affect the ships you fly. Shield ones, armour ones, small projectile ones, big projectile ones, missile ones, hybrid ones, speed ones. A PLETHORA of implants to go with the many varied ships and fittings in eve. YET they are all tied to this stupid ******** 24hr jumplone and timer. It just stifles the use of them. If you could swap between sets every few hours people would use more of them. Hell yeah ill jump in my projectile set for this rifter roam,.. few hours later.. sweet gunna do some ratting in my missile boat ill go my missile and learning set.. get bored of that, im going to go in a fast cruiser solo roam ill activate my low grade slave set.
Instead its just painful and simply not worth the hassle of having multiple sets. Not only do you get stuck in them for 24hrs but then there is the oh **** the implants i want are on the other side of the eve universe.. :effort:
Then finally for people in wormholes that don't have easy access to stations and random high sec entry points the clunkyness of implants really becomes apparent. I mean you have this varied dynamic wormhole world.. check.. varied shield or armour fleets.. check.. access to implants or able to swap between shield and armour sets.. hell no.

The current system favours high sec ratters or station sitters. I think learning implants have a real bad impact on the game. Just remove them totally and have implant sets independent of jump clones. It would really be a better way to have it and i think would mean higher usage of them in the end than what what we have now.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#11 - 2012-05-28 02:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Simetraz wrote:
There isn't a problem with implants in the game.
THe problem is with the players who think SP's are the equivalent of Levels in other games.


Not quite, but SP is the difference between able to use, for example, T2 artillery ammo, and being able to apply damage at the same range as the rest or you fleet.

Another example would be navigation; if you're the slowest one in the fleet because you have poor navigation skills, your likelyhood of being picked off is significantly higher, or your fleet as a whole has to travel slower to accommodate you.

If you made the choice to put that SP into something else, so be it... but you shouldn't be penalised because you want to go and PvP in nullsec.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#12 - 2012-05-28 02:59:20 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
There isn't a problem with implants in the game.
THe problem is with the players who think SP's are the equivalent of Levels in other games.


Not quite, but SP is the difference between able to use, for example, T2 artillery ammo, and being able to apply damage at the same range as the rest or you fleet.

Another example would be navigation; if you're the slowest one in the fleet because you have poor navigation skills, your likelyhood of being picked off is significantly higher, or your fleet as a whole has to travel slower to accommodate you.

If you made the choice to put that SP into something else, so be it... but you shouldn't be penalised because you want to go and PvP in nullsec.

Yep. If a dreadnaught fleet has a bunch of fellows with only JDC IV, the whole fleet has to take more cynos and take longer to get to the destination.

Train JDC V guys.

Oh and similarly for the MWD speed. Poor drakes who don't have it to at least IV will lag behind the rest of the pack.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-05-28 03:01:04 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
There isn't a problem with implants in the game.
THe problem is with the players who think SP's are the equivalent of Levels in other games.


Not quite, but SP is the difference between able to use, for example, T2 artillery ammo, and being able to apply damage at the same range as the rest or you fleet.

Another example would be navigation; if you're the slowest one in the fleet because you have poor navigation skills, your likelyhood of being picked off is significantly higher, or your fleet as a whole has to travel slower to accommodate you.



And once again it is the players who are dicatating to other players, stick in this implant cause you are lacking this skill.

And if they are removed that situation will still be the same.
Although now that newbie will no longer be able to give themselves an edge to get in the fight faster.
If your corporation or alliance really wants a newbie to have such and such skills then they should not have an issue providing those implants.

Removing implants only helps the veterans who don't want the new players to catch up.

Leave impants in the game, they don't hurt anything and it helps the new players.
Or as I said above is this just a bunch of vets who are more interested in keeping newer player held back rather then helping them.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#14 - 2012-05-28 03:01:30 UTC
Jinkii Visser wrote:
Implants are something that i see as clunky and kind of messed up from early eve. They should be independent of jump clones.
There should be like racks of implants say like 5 (id even go 10) of them. You add your implants to whatever rack and you choose which rack you want to activate at a fitting station (near carrier, pos or station). Then maybe some timer like 2hrs before being able to change your active rack again.
Why? Because there are so many implants that affect the ships you fly. Shield ones, armour ones, small projectile ones, big projectile ones, missile ones, hybrid ones, speed ones. A PLETHORA of implants to go with the many varied ships and fittings in eve. YET they are all tied to this stupid ******** 24hr jumplone and timer. It just stifles the use of them. If you could swap between sets every few hours people would use more of them. Hell yeah ill jump in my projectile set for this rifter roam,.. few hours later.. sweet gunna do some ratting in my missile boat ill go my missile and learning set.. get bored of that, im going to go in a fast cruiser solo roam ill activate my low grade slave set.
Instead its just painful and simply not worth the hassle of having multiple sets. Not only do you get stuck in them for 24hrs but then there is the oh **** the implants i want are on the other side of the eve universe.. :effort:
Then finally for people in wormholes that don't have easy access to stations and random high sec entry points the clunkyness of implants really becomes apparent. I mean you have this varied dynamic wormhole world.. check.. varied shield or armour fleets.. check.. access to implants or able to swap between shield and armour sets.. hell no.

The current system favours high sec ratters or station sitters. I think learning implants have a real bad impact on the game. Just remove them totally and have implant sets independent of jump clones. It would really be a better way to have it and i think would mean higher usage of them in the end than what what we have now.

What, no...

Higher use as in buy one and use it almost forever, maybe. Do you mean that you risk the implants you are *currently* losing, but when you swap they are not in cloneA or cloneB but just sitting in some magical implant inventory?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

ModeratedToSilence
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-05-28 03:03:15 UTC
Escaping from a gang in structure and then realising you had +5s gives me a nice adrenalin rush.
Disdaine
#16 - 2012-05-28 03:14:27 UTC
You ruined your own game.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#17 - 2012-05-28 03:14:45 UTC
When I was a newb, I decided that by 29M sp I would stop caring about learning speeds.

Turns out I was wrong. I stopped caring at 25M after training BC 5 and going on to a nice 1 week skill and thinking, "wow, its a short one".

Now, I fly with the implants until I die with them, then I'll not bother. Now... a full slave set would be a different story.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-05-28 03:16:42 UTC
If you are scared to PVP because of your implants, you need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=69021
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#19 - 2012-05-28 04:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Simetraz wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
There isn't a problem with implants in the game.
THe problem is with the players who think SP's are the equivalent of Levels in other games.


Not quite, but SP is the difference between able to use, for example, T2 artillery ammo, and being able to apply damage at the same range as the rest or you fleet.

Another example would be navigation; if you're the slowest one in the fleet because you have poor navigation skills, your likelyhood of being picked off is significantly higher, or your fleet as a whole has to travel slower to accommodate you.



And once again it is the players who are dicatating to other players, stick in this implant cause you are lacking this skill.

And if they are removed that situation will still be the same.
Although now that newbie will no longer be able to give themselves an edge to get in the fight faster.
If your corporation or alliance really wants a newbie to have such and such skills then they should not have an issue providing those implants.

Removing implants only helps the veterans who don't want the new players to catch up.

Leave impants in the game, they don't hurt anything and it helps the new players.
Or as I said above is this just a bunch of vets who are more interested in keeping newer player held back rather then helping them.


I completely agree with the OP.

He isn't so much talking about implants as a whole. So your point about using implants to make up for lacking a skill isn't what he is talking about. He specifically says learning implants.

I have no problem with the other implants but the change in speed of learning and the cost of the implants is a very valid point. Fear of losing a pod with expensive implants is just an added risk on top of the normal risk of losing ships. Something it'd be nice not to have. Who knows how many people have not entered a fight because of their implants? I know its fairly easy to get away in a pod but you don't always get away, specially in null sec.

Good tips about only using 2 learning implants.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-05-28 04:22:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Jack Miton wrote:
A LOT of PVP only people run with multi BIL isk pods all the time.


i do

on my supercap alt, anyway

not really worth running about with a multi-billion isk pod unless the ship you're flying is worth that consideration

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

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