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A Plea for Rationale in the System of Natural Consequences

Author
Oddball Six
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-27 21:15:37 UTC
I do not live in my mother's basement.

I am fortunate enough to have full time employment as a fairly successful Solution Architect for a Global consulting firm. I play from a custom built home office and hotels all over the United States. My identity is defined as a father, a husband, and a businessman. Eve has woven itself in as an on-again, off-again diversion where for the last three years I can apply business acumen and some custom tools to build an industrial marketer and manufacturer.

Eve is a fun low pressure environment where I make the conscious choice to forgo combat and low sec rewards to maintain the low stress nature of this pursuit.

Recently, I was killed mining and even podded in high sec. Losses in my ship of 300mil plus, implant losses of something on the order of a billion and change. Why? Because CCP has chosen by its inaction to allow a loose coalition of players to reward collective behavior against the engineered system of penalties and policies that are intended to make high security zones a low risk, low reward environment.

I petition CCP to consider the policy and natural violations that the inaction to date represent, and also suggest a system of natural Consequences which may be of use in curbing such competitions like 'hulkageddon' - or at least limit them to the low- and null-sec systems where they belong.

Recognizing the Violations of CCP Policy

An external competition like hulkageddon depends upon players allying and indeed competing to determine which player is most willing to ignore the disincentives engineered into the game which protect players who participate in high security systems. Indeed the competition organizers have created systematic logs denoting and ridiculing the expressions of distress or outrage by affected players:

Quote:
" The same cannot be said for the 5000 poor fools that have been deshipped in the first half of this year’s Hulkageddon, with over a trillion isk in damages done so far. This hulkageddon has exceeded our wildest expectations. I am so very proud of all our great competitors, and remember the race for the gold is not yet over!"

- http://hulkageddon5.machine9.net/?p=96

Yet CCP has denoted conduct such as this which determines to interfere with the operation of the system and the enjoyment of other players as verboten through at least two provisions.

Quote:
"Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy. "

-http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp

The terms of service at http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp specifically forbids role playing that interferes with others enjoyment of the game as well as forbidding conduct which disallows others to enjoy the game.

By organizing large scale operations to eliminate players engaging in high sec mining operations, and entire sector of game play is disrupted. By CCP's own statistics, thousands of players have already been affected in this way to date.

Quote:
"A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account."

-http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336

In the Knowledge Base published by CCP, as well, we find a definition of griefing and its specific prohibition of players deriving a significant portion of their time to game tactics that derive their enjoyment through the harassment of other players ourside of genuine pvp conflict such as corporation wars.

Recognizing Inaction as Counter to Real Life Analogs

One of the other clear guides CCP has applied to player conduct is the consideration of the real life treatment of the analog of the player conduct in a real society.

Were a real life band to conspire to affect markets by systematically attacking mining operations, there is ample precedent to recognize that governments and international organizations would act.

The grounds to do so are numerous.

  • Systematic attacks on the unarmed
  • Collusion to manipulate market dynamics
  • Collusion to destroy an entire class of entity


We would see concerted action on multiple fronts from the US, the EU, and the UN. Antitrust hearings. Courts and tribunals. Resolutions and committees.

CCPs response in the role of the international arbitration? Absent.

A Simple Response

I would suggest the response is simple and two pronged.


  1. Concord notices the drop in the markets and in order to ensure the supposed stability of the universe, have placed a couple of concord ships resident in high sec asteroid belts only in addition to their current locations.

  2. CCP begins warning and taking action against blatant high sec offenders.


Anecdotal evidence has already started to surface of player discontent with allowing these actions to remain unpunished and indeed unrestrained. I question how long CCP will wait to allow bands of players to flagrantly collude to ignore intended game mechanics and deny greater segments of the player base the enjoyment of the chosen virtual profession that keeps the real-life game revenue coming in.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2012-05-27 21:20:16 UTC
I have no KM to go on so I will assume you failed to tank your ship while mining when a very well known event was going on. Welcome to EVE, a PVP game full of nasty pirates and terrorists who love people who fail to protect themselves in even the most basic way.

Best you get used to EVE as it is not advertised as a dark and hostile game for nothing.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#3 - 2012-05-27 21:22:31 UTC
I agree with you OP, Hulkageddon is turning thousands away from Eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1329447#post1329447

But CCG (-oon) will do little or nothing.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  

ShipToaster
#4 - 2012-05-27 21:24:08 UTC
Sandbox.

.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-05-27 21:24:12 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
I agree with you OP, Hulkageddon is turning thousands away from Eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1329447#post1329447

But CCG (-oon) will do little or nothing.


Year on year EVE has grown and in all that time miners have died.
Tallon Sylph
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-05-27 21:27:13 UTC
ShipToaster wrote:
Sandbox.

Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#7 - 2012-05-27 21:27:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
I agree with you OP, Hulkageddon is turning thousands away from Eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1329447#post1329447

But CCG (-oon) will do little or nothing.


Year on year EVE has grown and in all that time miners have died.


Really? In 2010, I really can't remember less than 50k players on weekends, sometimes around 58k.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#8 - 2012-05-27 21:27:26 UTC
You are investing time into something you don't really understand, Mr. Successful Real-Life Businessman Married With Children.

You see, this is a video game that focuses on conflict, scamming, violence, murder, and sociopathy. This is not a family-friendly pastime created for the enjoyment and benefit of working family men to unwind after a hard day of shaking hands and having power lunches.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2012-05-27 21:31:13 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:


Really? In 2010, I really can't remember less than 50k players on weekends, sometimes around 58k.


Because players online at any one time is the same as active subs.
Llywelyn Emrys
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-05-27 21:31:36 UTC
Think of EVE as a libertarian paradise.

The government (CCP) will not do anything to save you.

You have to do it yourself.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#11 - 2012-05-27 21:33:45 UTC
World of Warcraft --------------------------->

The Tears Must Flow

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#12 - 2012-05-27 21:39:09 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
I agree with you OP, Hulkageddon is turning thousands away from Eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1329447#post1329447

But CCG (-oon) will do little or nothing.


Year on year EVE has grown and in all that time miners have died.


Really? In 2010, I really can't remember less than 50k players on weekends, sometimes around 58k.



2010 was before Incarna. The server pop hasn't recovered from that yet, but it's steadily climbing.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#13 - 2012-05-27 21:41:57 UTC
Honestly, I think you could have started here - "Recently, I was killed mining and even podded in high sec." Why do we need to hear your life story before you go on about being killed? lol
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#14 - 2012-05-27 21:42:10 UTC
Oddball Six wrote:
My identity is defined as a father, a husband, and a businessman.
No, your identity is defined as a "highsec miner" and a "carebear."

Proposal

  • EVE players continue to destroy your ships and pod you at every opportunity.

I eagerly await your considered response.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-05-27 21:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478516
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478515

1.9 bil implants plugged in head, prefers to leave midslots empty rather then fit tanking modules because 'don't have to cuz pvp is optional right?'
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#16 - 2012-05-27 21:46:55 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478516
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478515

1.9 bil implants plugged in head, prefers to leave midslots empty rather then fit tanking modules because 'don't have to cuz pvp is optional right?'


The mids aren't empty. He does have that tracking computer in there.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.

Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#17 - 2012-05-27 21:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Oddball Six wrote:
Quote:
"Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy. "

-http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp




Well reasoned and thought out.

And indeed the Policy above is constantly violated by the Goons and the CFC period. Even SONY said "They sure bring great content".

(Hulkageddon I must remain neutral about. As long as it's a temporary event I find it rather exciting. This time around though it is unfortunately coinciding with a huge Goon death squad campaign as well. But that is not the fault of Helicity Boson, the organizer of Hulkageddon).

All I can figure at this point is Vikings will inflict their culture and ways on the unwilling as they always have. Lol It's a real mess. Good luck dealing with it all if you do stick around.

***

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#18 - 2012-05-27 21:49:37 UTC
Kaeda Maxwell, nice gank :)

The Tears Must Flow

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#19 - 2012-05-27 21:50:56 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478516
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478515

1.9 bil implants plugged in head, prefers to leave midslots empty rather then fit tanking modules because 'don't have to cuz pvp is optional right?'


The mids aren't empty. He does have that tracking computer in there.


It's an Omni-Directional Tracking Link because.... o.0

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2012-05-27 21:53:45 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478516
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13478515

1.9 bil implants plugged in head, prefers to leave midslots empty rather then fit tanking modules because 'don't have to cuz pvp is optional right?'


The mids aren't empty. He does have that tracking computer in there.


It's an Omni-Directional Tracking Link because.... o.0


To track all those nano rocksBlink
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