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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#961 - 2012-05-25 22:58:41 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Meytal wrote:
-snip- I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.

Here is some recent history that Blue and I discussed while testing on SiSi.


but it's the same UI as windows 7. I mean it's not done right, but it's not like windows 7 UI is made for consoles.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#962 - 2012-05-25 23:01:26 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Meytal wrote:
-snip- I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.

Here is some recent history that Blue and I discussed while testing on SiSi.


but it's the same UI as windows 7. .....


That's why we using other file manager such a Total Commander or other else.
Because Windows Explorer is sh*t.
Brutal Red
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#963 - 2012-05-25 23:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Brutal Red
MotherMoon wrote:

edit:wait what? the tree can be opened inside every single items window? by pressing the >> button? THEN WHY don't windows open like they used to? please make it so we have to hold SHIFT to open a window in the SAME WINDOW.

Clicking buttons to open new windows should work just like before. THEN, we click the >> button, we ge the tree view to move items quickly, once we are done, we can close the tree by pressing << button.

Why can't you do this CCP? it wouldn't even require much change! it wuld be the old UI, with the tree as optional. the tree would only show up by defalt in station in the main items window. By MY CARGO DOESN'T NEED TREE VIEW.


CCP do this , I think that would make Eve playable again for me .
(Windows still need to made persistant like the old UI)

Great solution MotherMoon !
Marisol Shimaya
Doomheim
#964 - 2012-05-25 23:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Marisol Shimaya
I have to amitted some of the Inventory is good and that is just the you can see the base price in the inventory box if you have some stuff like:

f.eks.

you have 10 shuttle and will tell you that price is 100k isk

That was not in the old inventory box.

But the rest of the new inventory box is unuseible


So Have a nice weekends Big smile


For the EU have a nice show in Baku ESC 2012 " Light The Fire " 29th of May is the final show.
I hope the best song wins !

Have a nice weekend show Baku !!!!

Fight For Our Rights

Mangone
Plan.B
#965 - 2012-05-25 23:12:17 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Meytal wrote:
-snip- I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.

Here is some recent history that Blue and I discussed while testing on SiSi.


but it's the same UI as windows 7. .....


That's why we using other file manager such a Total Commander or other else.
Because Windows Explorer is sh*t.


Totally offtopic but dafuq..

I loved windows xp explorer... Does windows 7 even have one? Or do u need to shift + click it open aswell?

Regards
Mangone
Win 7 64 Bit
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#966 - 2012-05-25 23:22:55 UTC
WolfSchwarzMond wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:

I was working on War Dec and Kill Reports this release - hope you like that stuff!

This was on the 1st page of the EVE Online: Inferno - Feedback thread. Post number 10. This tells me that CCP knew we'd hate this new Inventory. There a is Dev going "Don't blame me. I was working on something else.!"

So after 25 pages here and 50 pages in the Feedback Thread, 90% of them saying this thing is "CRAP" or "junk" or "Stupid" or that is just "SUX" the question is simple. Why can't CCP learn from it's own mistakes? We've been here before......]

"Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans." -Hilmar Veigar Pétursson, CEO

And so CCP have repeated the same mistake. Making a change, testing it, getting feeback from players that said "THIS SUCKS" then ramming it down the player's collective throats anyway.

"The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar Pétursson, CEO

Well Sir, this was a lesson you didn't learn. You are proving it. The new inventory has made Looting from Wrecks, Player Owned Station operations, Jetcan Mining, Corporate Hanger Ops, and dealing with large amounts of items into a tedious, time wasting, torture sessions. The new system lags. It in some cases makes it harder to find things. It makes you repeat the same actions over and over and over where before it was once. Your people were told time and again during Sisi testing that this change was not a good idea, but you did it anyway. Again....

I would humbly suggest that you either Rollback this change or make it optional as you did with the whole Captain's Quarters fiasco. Let us not take this latest lack of good judgement and turn it into International news.
Prove to us you can learn from your mistakes. And stop repeating them.

Quotes taken from here http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672


+1
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#967 - 2012-05-25 23:31:41 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Meytal wrote:
-snip- I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.

Here is some recent history that Blue and I discussed while testing on SiSi.


but it's the same UI as windows 7. .....


That's why we using other file manager such a Total Commander or other else.
Because Windows Explorer is sh*t.


but not windows 3.1 ****.

also I think a majority of people would disagree with you, sorry. That's not a bad thing, it's just fact.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#968 - 2012-05-25 23:36:59 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
[quote=Meytal] -snip- I had a strange thought that I'm hoping isn't true: Are we testing DUST's new inventory system?
Please say this isn't true.

Here is some recent history that Blue and I discussed while testing on SiSi.


but it's the same UI as windows 7. .....


That's why we using other file manager such a Total Commander or other else.
Because Windows Explorer is sh*t.


Yes you think a majority of people would disagree with YOU That's why almost 95% posts hate this crap inventory.
Medli
TriFusion Project
#969 - 2012-05-25 23:40:24 UTC
I was skeptical about the new inventory at first, but after using it for a couple of days, I think it's okay. I like the fact that everything is in one window, instead of having to open several windows and move them all over the screen, etc. And I like that estimated value of items is shown. This makes it easier to sift thru mission loot. I do have a few suggestions for improvement though...

When dragging items to another destination, it seems the switch to that destination window happens too quickly. It's annoying to automatically be taken to the destination even when hovering the mouse for a few seconds.

I think this is being developed, but some ship icons on the left hand side of the inventory window, to differentiate ships from everything else, would be nice.

Any way to optimize the loading time for the inventory window? In one of my other char's main station, where there is a lot of invention and other junk, it takes 12 to 15 seconds for the window to load.

PLEASE, make identical blue print copies stackable! It would be nice to have a stacks, much easier than counting out invention BPC's all the time.

And, a simpler window for use in space would be nice. Perhaps something with just 2 buttons across the top: one for my ship's cargo bay and one for whatever I'm trying to loot.
Chloe Celeste
Net Effect
#970 - 2012-05-25 23:44:58 UTC
Unified Inventory is horrible.........rollback to the way it was previous to this expansion.
Mackenzie Hawkwood
Event Horizon Expeditionaries
The Watchmen.
#971 - 2012-05-25 23:46:08 UTC
Rhianna BloodELF wrote:
GIVE US BACK OUR INVENTORY SYSTEM WITH PERSISTENT WINDOWS!!!

WE DO NOT WANT UNIFIED INVENTORY OR A TREE TO OPEN OUR HANGERS!!!!


+1
I am dreading trying to run a Rorq with this fail patch. I need the various windows open ie the Rorq cargo hold, the Rorq corp hanger, the POS hangers, the Rorq fuel bay are just some that are open all the time.
These use to be all opened by either a double click, right click or even from the overview.
Now I will have to open the new **** UI wait for it to load (took 3 min for it to open the cargo bay on a drake last night) then shift+Click to open the next window, rinse and repeat.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that. - Kina Ayami

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#972 - 2012-05-25 23:50:20 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
also I think a majority of people would disagree with you, sorry. That's not a bad thing, it's just fact.
No, it really isn't.

Also, why do you keep blabbing on about Windows 3.1?
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#973 - 2012-05-26 00:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
After days of using it I am convinced it will never be fixed to function as well as the old system, Revert or option to turn it OFF please.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.

Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#974 - 2012-05-26 01:08:34 UTC
May O'Neez wrote:
It is a bit sad that people complain in loop about some issues that CCP stated the fix is already in the pipe ... (yes, I know, there's still issues not in the pipe, but they get drowned in the flood :/ )

The opt-out option is silly, because by principle people will NOT use the new system. So they have either to pull back or to fix the existing one, but I understand why they don't want the 2 aside. Moreover, old UI is 9 years old and code must be freaky old and clunky ...



Yea. Being freaky old and clunky. That explains why the game always lagged or threatened to crash when you opened your cargo hold. Oh, wait, my bad! That's the NEW system! The old system was so freaky old and clunky alright. So old and clunky it worked damn well. It did it's job, it didn't get in the way, and you didn't have to fight it to do basic inventory management. It's like replacing a Swiss Watch with some mass produced garbage and thinking it's an improvement because the mass produced garbage was "newer". Newer=/=better.

I don't give a rats ass how OLD it is. If you aren't improving it, don't replace it.
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#975 - 2012-05-26 01:23:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Tobin
OK CCP Guard, you asked for it, I spent a few days with it... Here are my observations and feedback:

PART 1 OF 2:

- It takes up to 50 seconds to RELOAD the corporate hangar list every time one docks.

- WINDOW AMNESIA: Why do I bother setting my corp hangars, ship hangar, station hangar, etc, all in specific locations - only to have the game forget half of them, especially if a ship's cargo hangar is open - it sometimes overlaps onto that window...

- IF YOU DOUBLE-CLICK a place you would like to open, PLEASE MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY FORCE OPEN in a NEW window. Because, as we are ALL so used to double-clicking to open a new tab, NOW, if we do double-click anything, we're stuck with a new window that we can't GO BACK from. This is so ridiculously time-consuming.

- FOR THAT MATTER, MAKE A "BACK" BUTTON IN ALL "UNIFIED UI" WINDOWS: One wrong double click or even simply not having an option IN an open window to "Open Container In New Window" will assume you wanted to open up the container in that current window... WITH NO WAY TO BACK UP.

- MORE TIME CONSUMING FOR MASSIVE INDUSTRIALISTS: Enough said? I can provide a list of 72 COUNTED STEPS (and CLICKS) to do something that already took a great deal of "hoops to jump through"... and that was just in one station. Then dealing with a POS and other office-occupied NPC stations... it's just too much to deal with, ending with frustration and ending gameplay for that day.

- MASSIVE TIME CONSUMPTION AND LAG WHEN MOVING/TRADING: It seems that if you massively move or trade 40-400+ items in one movement from one hangar to a personal hangar, one corp hangar to a ship's cargohold, or HADES' FORBID you try to TRADE that much between two people. both sides take FOREVER to clear the item movements.

- FAILURE IN MOVING "ALL-SELECTED" ITEMS FROM CARGOHOLD TO PERSONAL/CORP HANGAR: Example from today: I have 45 sets of massive amounts of items... I select all, move it to hangar, and then it stops halfway through, and lags while it tries to figure out price... by the time it's "done"... half of the "ALL-SELECTED" items are still sitting in the freighter. 30 minutes later I realize this and "select all" again in the cargohold, and move them to a corporate hangar... and lag again.

- TOO LONG, COMPLEX NAMES MAKE "TABS" FAIL: Example: I choose "Open In New Window" for a Corporate Container named "GAS STORAGE". I then "Open In New Window" for a Corporate Container named "WORMHOLE SALVAGE". I THEN DRAG ONE WINDOW ON TOP OF ANOTHER TO CREATE TWO TABS IN ONE WINDOW. Sounds convenient, aside from all the extra special clicking and keystrokes, right?

WRONG.

1: One tab is LABELLED: "Corporation hangars > PRODUCTION BAY > GAS STORAGE"
2: The other tab is LABELLED: " Corporation hangars > PRODUCTION BAY > WORMHOLE SALVAGE".
3: WHEN MERGED AS A 2-TABBED WINDOW: Sadly all I see are two tabs that say "Corporation ha" next to the other tab that also says "Corporation ha"... DOES ANYONE NEED A SCREENSHOT FOR THIS? (...again...)

SOLUTION TO THAT: Make window and tab names display simply their names... not an entire DOS-like "Root Directory" system of naming. EVE is seriously becoming MORE complex than it should be... ironicly all because of an effort to (assumably) make things "less complex". The sheep is going one way, the herding dog is running in the opposite direction. Nothing is being accomplished folks...

- "POP UP" INFORMATION IS UNNECESSARY AND BLOCKING MY VIEW: Speaking of the benefits of "Less Is more" (not the other way around): When I scroll through any window, a FORCED "POPUP" BOX appears overshadowing up to 3 rows and up to 3 columns... containing the following lines:

1: FIRST LINE IN POPUP BOX: "Quantity Of Item x Name Of Item" (gee, if I'm pointing at "it", I think I already know the "name of it"...right?) [let's pause and let the pure logic set in for everyone]
2: NEXT LINE IN POPUP BOX: "Estimated price: xxxxx ISK (per unit)"
3: ...AND THEN YOU ADD AN EXTRA LINE "xxx,xxx,xxx ISK (entire stack)"

...PLEASE: STOP with the ISK calculating and extraneous/unnecessary information. NOT ONLY IS IT BLOCKING MY VIEW OF ITEMS AND QUANTITIES ABOVE/AROUND THE MOUSE POINTER (especially when I have it in a compacted item-list form without any icons). It's really frustrating. Personally, with price estimation and such, that's my job technically (a part of my Corporate responsibilities), and I suspect it is taking up calculating time referencing something within the region's market: Which then makes me wonder if that is part of the extra "LAG" with everything - and every move - I make with items of value. I WILL AGREE, THOUGH: For some people, especially non-industrialists and new players, this may be seemingly very helpful for those players (though honestly, your price estimations are 50% terribly wrong). BUT ITS NOT FOR EVERYONE. SO PLEASE: MAKE IT OPTIONAL.

- AGAIN: MARKET VALUES ON MY OWN ITEM HANGAR?? In one station, I have 22 Station Warehouses separating my assets. I don't need to be told I have "22+ Items" with a value of "33,000,000 ISK" (price of containers only) when in reality I have [for this particular station example] over 28+ billion in "Est. price" value of the items contained within those containers... But I don't see that, nor do I want to (personally). SO AGAIN: MAKE IT OPTIONAL PLEASE. I for one would enjoy the screen real estate.

- WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LINES FOR ROWS? If you open up the MARKET WINDOW, everything from current item Details to Corporation Orders all have clearly visible lines separating the rows. In ALL "uniform inventory type" windows, all I see are column dividing lines. Please stick with uniforminty if you truly are trying to be "uniform".

- POSSIBLE FIX FOR ALL: Why don't you turn the ASSETS button into the "Uniformed Inventory UI" and revert (give us) back to our main TABBED windows: Current Station Item Hangar, Corporation Hangars (All in one WITH TABS), and a Ship Hangar...
Damhtman
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
#976 - 2012-05-26 01:23:36 UTC
It seems that the Devs are not listening to us even if this thread is going to hit 1000 post. I encourage everyone to file a petition and escalate it and let’s hope that the GM group put more pressure on the Devs than this post seems to be having.

I vote that this is the worst change in EVE to include the captain’s quarters.
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#977 - 2012-05-26 01:23:38 UTC
PART 2 OF 2:

- SPEAKING OF SHIP HANGARS: For the love of the gods, please list THE SHIP WE ARE CURRENTLY IN... Why? BECAUSE ONCE WE HAVE SEPARATED OUT ALL OUR WINDOWS (the ones we all personally want/need to have open)... we can't see the ship we are in.

- REINSTATE DOUBLE-CLICKING YOUR CURRENT SHIP TO FORCE OPEN A NEW CARGOHOLD WINDOW: Please bring back the action for a COMPLETELY NEW (hopefully remembered) window for a ship's cargohold WHEN DOUBLE-CLICKED. I SAY THIS AS A POINT because, though sometimes it does work, the reality is that it is replacing an already open window (of about 6 crucial windows I need separately open. now... the reality is that the UI just REPLACES and REMOVES an already-opened window for a container or Corp Hangar. It's happening all the time - and unpredictably, I might add.

- CREATE A BACK BUTTON: With all of us used to double-clicking and having it automatically opening what we double-clicked on into a NEW WINDOW... Now it is: Click arrow to expand long list, scroll through, find container inside hangar, right click "Open in new window." Well now, gods forbid you double-click something by accident and you are stuck with it, man. "Game over, man." [smirk]


"Game over." Hmm...

I think that's where I'm at, for now. Let you work on some of that food for thought and do some more patch work. So what if I took up 2 posts. I took a few days, worked with it, made notes and refined it into one solid set of observations and helpfully-intended feedback - as requested.

ON A SPECIAL NOTE: I have noticed something NON-TECHNICAL. More like purely "of mind" or "emotional impression":

Upon logging into Eve since the upgrades and patches, after hours and hours trying to do things that should have taken a single hour at most... that when I think to myself "game over, man, game over" .... "this is all a big headache", and, sadly in reality, I do end up with a headache after a few hours. I haven't even been able to "enjoy" any of the game's other upgrades, like the missile "upgrades", because I've been stuck daily trying to work with the frustration and inconsistencies of this "Unified Inventory UI" headache.

Honestly, since the first day of "Infernal" frustrations: Each day since, when I log in, I have a weird pit in my stomach. Inevitably it's because each day (so far), no matter what (so far), I end up wasting my own personal/valuable time moreso now, trying to accomplish what I used to do in 1/4 of the time (or less) - by the time I'm "done" doing what I needed to do for my Corp and Alliance, I soon after realize that I've lost all interest in dealing with Eve's "unified" system. And that's when I just want to log off and do something more relaxing.. like brick-laying or driving blind on the 101.

CCP, you have seriously (and inadvertently, I trust) made this game more laborious and frustrating to "play" that it's no longer enjoyable. Like going to work after coming home from work.

This game is complex, and for those that are new or not as invested as others of us whom have been with you for years and years, the new "Unified Inventory UI" may appear "of nothing" to a new or less involved (or NON-industrial/scientific/leadership-oriented players)... but for the rest of us (and by the looks of almost 1000 Feedback complaints in 48 hours after Inferno's launch...) I know I am NOT alone in this.

Please listen to the people whom, without us, CCP would not be where it has come to be today.

Jared Tobin
Maul555
Xen Investments
#978 - 2012-05-26 01:36:32 UTC
Marisol Shimaya wrote:
Unified Inventory is crashing my eve clientSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSad



Then don't use it, thats what I am doing. Eve is now the prettiest chat client ever... I am seriously deciding on whether to shut down my POS operations right now and go to keeping 1 account alive. And that's only because of the friends I have made in eve that I want to keep in touch with.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#979 - 2012-05-26 01:38:52 UTC
Ya know, I have refined my tests of a bug I have reported, and now I can't find the appropriate place to post as there are multiple official and unofficial threads to post in. Call me paranoid, but I wonder if this was by design to diffuse the criticism...

Anyway, here goes, and I hope CCP actually sees this:

ORIGINAL BUG REPORT ::
transferring items from cargo hold to jet can :: select all --> drag and drop --> random qty of items were actually xferred, typically only one item xferred.

REFINED INFO:
This is related to stacking :: if you "select all" --> drag and drop onto an item that is duplicated in the list created from "select all", it will ONLY xfer that item, while the rest of the items picked up by the "select all + drag" are left in the cargo hold.

Easy Example:
Fire up [email protected] IIs in Rokh --> when cargohold full, stop Miner IIs --> select all, drag and drop to jetcan :: if you drop onto the pyroxeres icon and pyroxeres is in the list created from "select all + drag", it ONLY xfers the pyroxeres and leaves all other ore types in the cargo hold.

If you --> select all, drag and DROP CAREFULLY to the space in between icons (icon mode), it will consistently perform as expected (xfer total items from "select all" stack).

Another way of understanding this is :: if you "select all" and jettison to create a jet can, it works perfectly as tthere is no interference from trying to stack objects already in the jet can. But xferring requires that you avoid dropping onto an item in the jet can that is simultaneously in the stack created from "select all + drag".

CCP :: This is one exact problem from a huge list of general complaint. Please review and include in the "fix it" plan. If this is the inappropriate thread, plase move this post to the appopriate thread.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#980 - 2012-05-26 01:57:49 UTC
Kile Kitmoore wrote:
Marisol Shimaya wrote:
Kile Kitmoore you started to play eve at 2008.08.31 01:10 nice but seems like you have playing that much you need to know this ; I had another characters before this and was about 2005. I can tell you what eve have been doing but it will take long time to write all down so I'll think that I know more than you.


You know what I was going to let that post slide but you know what, f*ck it. My response was to a new player who actually enjoys the new UI, which I have no fault with but also wanted to convey there are serious problems with it also. Now you show up with your e-peen about length of account with your little insult for what purpose?

So my response to you; "oh great one with account of old who truly knows more about this game then I , please take a moment and impose your great wisdom and explain, WTF are you talking about?"



I have been playing since eve beta, 2003, and if its an e-peen contest, I would gladly slap him for you...