EVE General Discussion

Riiiiiight… that's why no-one ever does it, right? There are plenty of reasons to do it today; there will be plenty of reasons to do it after this change.

…which will show up in the history and will be quite easy to research and tie together.

Yes? So? Just because the larger organisations will monopolise the best spots (which makes sense and which already happens) doesn't mean the personal POS goes out the window.

The main troubling thing for me is, that it allows the declaring corp to scope for noob-rich corps that way. If the war-fee is significantly lower than the member count suggest you can expect that (since it has many trials) it also has many relatively new players. I don't know if this is information that should be available either... But I think it outweighs the abuse-potential of counting trials (remember: up to 3 chars per account to pad your corp numbers).

For me the problem is that there are two things that are (pretty much) mutually exclusive. If you want your own POS (in highsec), you not only have to be in a corp (which is fine), but you have to be in a small to tiny corp. I'd love to be in a medium sized corp for various reasons (corp ops, people to play/talk with, and much more), but I can't! You need corp standings of 10x sec-status to put up the damn thing, no corp can achieve that without a just ridiculous amount of rules about who can join and what standings are required. Also any corp basically has to hand me the "keys to the kingdom" (meaning any POS they have) if they want to allow me to put one up for myself. Just not gonna happen.... The only remaining way are alliances, who generally aren't too keen on 5 char member corps.

How about this: You can launch a POS for yourself, but only if you are in a player corp. You can allow your corp access or your alliance as usual, but generally it's your own POS. Wardecs affecting the corp obviously also affect your POS.
For any serious industrialist there is no real alternative to having a POS just for yourself and maybe your alts (if small to medium POS) or at least access to a large one.

It's actually even easier: Just create an alt-corp and put the thing up yourself in the meantime... Obviously requires an alt with good standings toward your faction though ;)
It can also be seen as an issue that it's just not sensible (ever) to leave a small POS running in case of a wardec. Even if you try to upgrade defenses, it can relatively easy be taken down by just a couple of guys.

About the WarDec fee: I agree that it should be defined by the difference. If you are a 10 man corp and you wardec a 150 man corp you obviously don't expect them all to fight back (or at all), I like the explanation that this is basically the high-sec equivalent of the afk-cloaker. If you are 150 guys declaring war on a 10 man corp that is quite obviously an unfair fight. Both are examples of unproportional wars. If your 100 char corp declared war against another 100 char corp that seems much fairer and can therefore also be cheaper. I can also imagine a factor to be used in the formula to scale the price with the size of both corps, so that 10v10 wars are cheaper than 100v100. 10v100 or 100v10 should still be noticeably more expensive than either of those though!

All in all it seems like a good system to me

There is something i don't understand ...

When i read this thread, there is lot of people saying such things as "Kill all these carebears", "You have fun just running your POS, burn in hell etc ...".

So seem, the game is missing some PVP action, that people want to annoy other player who are NOT interested at all by PVP.

So :

1 - Do people not interested at all by PVP, and just taking fun with little industrial things with 1 or 2 friends have to stop the game ?

2 - How possible that people are missing some PVP action while in 0.0, if you roam 30 jumps, maybe you'll find 1 or 2 targets ? Where are the other targets, you guys, who wants to PVP ? Why all these people asking the industrialist to go out of the game don't go in 0.0 to have their PVP dose ? Not the balls ?

That new system is just completely idiot ! Look like someone think 15 mn to the new system 1 hour before the announce.

Let casual, and non PVP player in Peace ! They are part of the game, and most of them bring what PVPer needs (modules, ships, and so on ...). Missionners/Incursionners don't need to be in a corp, so they don't care of wardecs.

If you want PVP, go in 0.0 NPC space, or make lowsec more populated.

If this system appear, it's the end of all little corp as it will clearly tag on them : "I'm a sheep, come to shave me !". All these little corp/casual players will loose their assets (POS), their fun (Copying/researching is almost impossible in stations), and in most case have to be log off during the War time, as lot of industrialist have Badgers/Freighters, not PVP skills.

To pay for mercs ? Do you think all little corps have billions in wallets ? I'm sure CCP_Diagoras can give us the average amount on little corps wallets (let say max 5 active members). And, can you be sure mecs corps will not Wardec with Alts to propose their services of their mecs corps (New scams possibilities) ?

That system is just unfair by principe, by rules, and you guys who want to shoot on unarmed people, have a strange definition of PVP ...

(English is not my native langage, sorry).

One of the biggest issues with the current war dec system is that an agressor can basicly keep a war going indefinitely.

What is needed is a system where either side can defeat the other and force the war to end, goals or targets need to be set and when 1 side achieves those goals /targets he is declared the victor and the war ends.

for example inflicting a set amount of damage / losses against the aposing side.

Has anything like this been suggested in the planned rework of the war dec system?

You get a lot of points, including the fact that the internet HI SEC though guys are only demanding an one sided no-counter way to kill the non PvP inclined. They won't go in low sec or WH or 0.0 because their internet thoughness stops at the "You are about to enter a low security system" warning pop up. This is why the best place to live in EvE is deep low sec, those thugs won't ever come down here.

What you don't get instead, is that this IS an unconsensual PvP game therefore you just cannot opt out of PvP here.
Indeed if you want to play EvE you have to factor in losses.

Now, the old wardecs system sucked but was possible to play cops vs thieves, in the new system you'll be pinned down and your butt hole kept wide while they thrust an Avatar up inside.

"Unconsensual" has not necessarily to equal to "one sided" this is what they don't get (for convenience).

Oh if only "having one" was it. No, you have to grind the standings, buy one and then to fill it, anchor the modules, buy the BPOs (read: return of investment is measured in YEARS) and copy them and they take up to 1 month and longer and if you are wardecced you'll lose about 80M per each lab slot per each POS, not counting the now quite expensive fuel expense that just got made vain.

How many of the "new POS for everyone" users are going to bother with the above if they can be decced once a week?
How succesful will be the feature?
Let me guess... they'll try it and hope to luck out. Once they are caught they'll realize it was not worth the bother.
Because a personal POS cannot be made as good as a "hard mode POS" which is already a debatable, very long term investment income.




With the new rules? Care to list those ways?

I will clue you in about what happened when they removed the "or not" part of past features: they stopped doing them.
Goes a grand way to CCP's plan of "POS for everyone".
Why anybody with a brain would waste months of savings, standing grindings and efforts to setup something just to see some RR station game corp freely undoing all of this for 50M or whatever the cost will be?




Here's the catch, being "for everyone" they won't be as good as the regular stuff. Maybe they'll have NPC taxes (more than the charters that is), maybe limited slots, maybe inability to work on capital BPOs.
They will be *less* interesting (less effort to have one => less reward I suppose) and thus justifying having one will be even thougher.

You misunderstood the intent of my quote. I just wanted to give examples of how the game can be played without being subject to unconsensual PVP (which was claimed to be unavoidable: ".. just cannot opt ouf of PVP"). I didn't say "this is what you do that can always keep you safe". It's just an example how some people do play the game without participating in any form of PVP, proving it's possible.

I usually also have a POS up for Invention, BPO research and the like, it becomes more complicated in those cases but mostly you can just pull it down for the duration of the war. This can of course be an issue, but only if you have long-time-BPO copies/research running, things like that. In my case it never is an issue as most jobs I run only take a couple of days at most.

Would be lovely if this absurdly BAD forum did not force people to split posts in 100 fragments because it even counts how many quotes and farts you shoot.

Oh and half posts say they contain HTML (which is false) and the other half BBCode error because I DARED to use a percent sign in the same post where I put a link to something.

Cool, it'd be much clearer if he had some further details about how the player driven new features "POS for everyone" and "player driven station services" (sorry if I use shortcut names) are planned to be framed in the proposed wardec system.

I.e. which kind of safety measures will be available to prevent perma-disruption?

If not, since the current similar features are not *that* hugely profitable, how do you think players will receive these new additions if they will be denied using them each other week?

Edit: I mean, in the past you did not tell smaller corps struggling in 0.0 (or unwilling to join the endless politics): "LOL EVE IS THOUGH, GTFO", but you created fantastic features like Wormholes to find a sensible medium. Or FW.

Is there a plan to make the game appreciated to a wider audience who don't necessarily enjoy or don't have the forces to avoid being racketed and generally pummeled?