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Hive Ships (Motherships)

Daedalus II
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-24 20:17:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus II
This thread is added to continue the Hive ship thread from the old forum.

A hive ship is essentially a big ship that members of the corp can dock in and follow even when not online.
The hive ship can not itself dock, and it will never disappear from space, even when the one piloting it goes offline.
The ship is also mostly defenseless, and while it will have a significant tank, it won't survive without a defensive fleet around it.
The ship is used for those that wish to live a nomadic lifestyle

I have thought through the comments in the first thread, and also come to some insight in the limits of the EVE engine when it comes to moving other people than yourself between systems.

To counter these problems I suggest the following mechanic:

* A pilot can not "dock in the Hive Ship itself; no one follows inside the ship when it moves as that is a game mechanic problem.
* Instead each member owns a "Hangar Ship" which is a combination of a structure and a ship. This Hangar Ship attaches itself to a stationary Hive Ship and when doing so becomes a part of the Hive Ship and a hangar for the player!
* Whenever a pilot who is docked in his hangar disconnects for the game, his hangar will automatically detach and warp away as normal, so there are never any hangars attached to the Hive Ship with logged out pilots in them. They are either empty or contains an active pilot.
* When the Hive Ship decides to move one of two things happen:
- If a pilot is inside his hangar, the hangar is automatically detached from the Hive Ship and the pilot is transferred to fly it.
- If a pilot is not inside in his hangar, the hangar stays attached to the Hive Ship and cannot be used until it deploys again.

So, what happens if you are logged out when the Hive Ship moves out? Isn't the whole reason with this that you should follow the Hive Ship even if you're not logged in?
Yes it is, and here is how it could work:
Whenever the Hive Ship depolys it will also create a "beacon" which can be used by the Hangar Ships to jump to. Each Hangar Ship will have a jump drive which can ONLY jump to the Hive Ship, and ONLY when it's deployed. There also needs to be room for the Hangar Ship to attach to the Hive Ship, i.e. the Hive Ship can not be used as some kind of "bridge" bringing thousands of people over. If the Hive Ship has room for 50 people, 50 people can jump to it, no more.

Modes of the Hive Ship:
As mentioned above the Hive Ship can either be deployed or in flight mode. When deployed Hangar Ships can attach to it, services and hangars can be used. When in flight mode the ships services are limited. It can be used for refitting, and running industrial jobs will continue, but new ones can not be started.

Deployment of the Hive:
Hive Ships can deploy at two different locations:
* In normal space, next to a planetary body. This however does not let it deploy its shields. It will have the same health points and defensive capabilities as when in flight mode.
* In special sites that has to be scanned down. This will allow it to deploy its shield bubble. With the shield bubble it will get a significantly increased defensive capability. These special sites will also be time limited, perhaps lasting a month at most, then forcing the Hive to continue moving or drop its shield bubble.

Shield bubble:
Hive Ships will have a shield bubble similar to POSes, but as mentioned above, it can only be used under certain circumstances.
If it can't be used, the ship will be weaker and more open to attack than otherwise. This will severely limit using the Hive Ships as a counquest platform as the special deployment sites will be rare, hard to find and their location totally random.

Piloting Hive Ships:
The Hives will require a specific corp role to fly. You fly it by starting in your hangar and selecting a "Pilot Hive" option which will take you into space, piloting the ship. The ship will now automatically begin it's un-deployment cycle and will eventually be flyable like any other ship. The pilot can then at any time choose to "Stop piloting Hive" and he will then return to his hangar while the Hive automatically deploys.

Different Hive Ship sizes:
In the first thread I saw that people wanted different sizes of Hive Ships for different wallets, therefore I suggest the following sizes:
* Small: Size of carrier, cost of dreadnought, 1 high slot, 1 med slot, 3 low slots, shield bubble the strength of a large POS, can take 50 people.
* Medium: Size of super carrier, cost of super carrier, 2 high slots, 3 med slots, 5 low slots, shield bubble the strength of two large POSes, can take 150 people.
* Large: Size of titan, cost of titan, 3 high slots, 4 med slots, 8 low slots, shield bubble the strength of five large POSes, can take 400 people.

Fitting of Hive:
The Hive Ships will be able to fit special rigs:
* 1 low slot to med slot
* 1 med slot to high slot
* 1 high slot to med slot
* 1 med slot to low slot
These rigs will give the Hive Ships ability to specialize in certain areas.

The slots in the Hive Ships will be mainly used in this way:
* High slots; offensive modules
* Med slots; defensive modules
* Low slots; upgrades to industry and main ship

Things you can fit in high slots:
* Player controlled weaponry (these will only work when in flight mode)
* Automatic weaponry, similar to POS guns (these will only work when in deployed mode)

Things you can fit in med slots:
* Shield modules to increase defense
* Active shield modules can only be used when in flight mode

Things you can fit in low slots:
* Industry upgrades (production lines, invention lines, research lines and so on)
* Increased refining yield
* Increased storage space
* Increased hangar space
* Local in-ship market
* Increased jump drive range
* Clone bay
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Federation Uprising
#2 - 2011-09-24 21:59:26 UTC
I Remember this post. I plus 1ed it then And I am Plus 1ing it now.

Born Amarrian Raised Minmatar.

Seraph Cruoris
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-09-25 14:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Cruoris
I have one small problem with this idea...otherwise i like it a lot...

(1) i could be misunderstanding what you said but from what i gather the hanger itself is also a ship in itself? so id need to be flying this 'hanger' in order to join the hive ship? - scenario: im on the hive ship. enjoying the ride. i suddenly decide i want to do a mission, does that mean i have to fly to the station housing my lv3 runner to do said mission?

(2) if the ship is moving i cant dock? and if the pilot leaves my ship is automatically undocked? i think it would just be easier to have the ships docked. let the hive ship move around and have its deployed stance too and not force an undock on the player. rather let them be. if the player logs out and you're not in your ship. you simply get into it and undock...the ship would look like its in 'space' but it cant be docked into after being undocked or warped back into till the player comes back.

(3) also there's the qn of whether or not this will be allowed to enter high sec? and for it to be truly nomadic it should feature all the basic functions of the station in ship even a little communal area for those docked

(4) to avoid having a numeric limiter have an access limiter. the pilot grants access to only players he approves (not on a case by case basis but on a permission basis: imagine it being a 'corp' where only people of that 'corp' can dock)

(5) also i feel that there should be significant tankage and defense stats on this ship. maybe 0 offensive or at least enough to keep anything bellow a cruiser at bay but not enough to kill it efficiently or easily (unless said attackers are stupid enough to stay around long enough to get pummeled - essentially it would take a pilot to be AFK to not be able to know they have to leave and not be a sudden depletion of HP as can be seen in some PvP scenarios). scenario: ship is under attack and you need to get to your ship, it should be able to wistand a good beating so everyone can leave defend the ship etc and then take it to a safe spot for repair.

as for the limits of the EVE engine. but any ship or player inside of the ship could be considered the ship's container's content..there shouldn't be any code issue associated with this...but those are some tweaks to the idea. i mean to make it really feel like its a nomadic ship it should be able to function like a moving station for anyone who decides to live the nomadic life
Daedalus II
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-25 15:18:54 UTC
Seraph Cruoris wrote:
I have one small problem with this idea...otherwise i like it a lot...

Ok I'll answer as good as I can :)

1) Well all your ships are in the hive ship. I guess saying that the Hangar Ship is a hangar might be a bit misleading, it's more of your living space (CQ) onboard the hive ship. All your ships are inside the hive itself. So if you want to do something with a ship, you simply select it and undock. Your hangar (CQ) will stay attached to the hive ship. If your ship is not in the hive ship you have to select a shuttle or something and fly over to wherever it is. Clone jumping could work as well.

2) You can not be inside a ship that is moved by someone else as far as I understand it. For example there are supposedly problems with forcing someone else to change systems. They game is just not built to handle it. That's why I suggest all these complicated mechanics about never being attached to the hive ship while it's moving. When it's stationary you can be 100% certain it won't switch systems or change location, when it's not stationary you can't be sure. Other than that I'm not quite clear on what you're suggesting?

3) Agreed, and yes I think they should be allowed in high sec, but probably only the smallest type of hive ships. The smallest type is the only type that could possibly fit through a gate. The larger types need to use jump drives, and as such couldn't enter high-sec.

4) Yes only people in the corp can dock, that is a basic criteria. Then I imagine there would also be some role or similar would would have to have to be allowed to dock, which will further fine tune who can join and who can not. It's important however to not be able to somehow shuffle around people in such a way that more than the max number the hive can support can jump to it, as they in that case could be used as jump bridges for invasions in nullsec.

5) Agreed, however the smaller hive ships will inevitably be a lot weaker than the large ones. Having the hives deployed so they get a "POS" shield will be very important as that will make them as strong as a POS, and also provide protection for ships docking and undocking. I would imagine seeing a hive ship deployed at a planet a pretty rare sight. When the hive ships move they are vulnerable, when they deploy they are safer.

As I said, the problem as I understand it is force-updating the locations of other players. This might work well enough when you're offline (I don't know) but I can imagine it being quite a problem if you're online.

Thanks for the feedback :)
Ching Mortao
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-09-25 15:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ching Mortao
This should be an ORE based made ship for miners, would add something new to the mining area. It should be modular like a T3 and like a POS. Where for a trade - off instead of massive shields you can have two massive mining lasers.
Oberine Noriepa
#6 - 2011-09-25 16:21:30 UTC
This is a pretty cool idea!