Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So far most of the ideas I am seeing, "Crimewatch" etc, seem to be just part of a big carebear wet dream. We get to read loads of disingenuous self-serving carebear suggestions on how to 'improve' ganking - all of which involve various ways to make it nearly impossible and/or highly unprofitable. They simply want to be 100% safe instead of just 98% safe like they are today.

But MAYBE, just maybe - that's simply because CCP hasn't heard much of anything constructive from the suicide ganking community.

Maybe they just need OUR input, on common sense things that can be done to make our profession

A) more convenient.
B) more accessable to younger gankers
C) more profitable.

1. Income for Pod Killers
-Killing pods is generally very difficult to do in highsec (without bubbles), and often you have to forcably 'remove' the ship first - before Concord intervenes. Yet despite the tasty implants that lie within, NONE EVER DROP. Pod killers are struck with the harshest of security status penalties. They deserve an income as well. Allow reprocessing of corpses for a 50% drop rate on the implants....with all the talk of RISK vs REWARD - lets have some rewards for podding already.

2. Orca 'Stealth' Cargo Bay nerf
- We've seen a ton of Orca nerfs lately. But the most damaging and game-distorting Orca 'bug' of all still remains. Its the effortless profits that come from hauling highly valuable goods in Orcas - almost completely without risk. Every day, goods are moved from one sector of space to another, and earn their pilots billions in profit. The only possible risk? Suicide gankers. Yet gankers aren't allowed to scan Orcas - to see what is concealed within the magic 40K cargo bay. And even if the Orca does get randomly popped (unlikely due to high EHP) - the 'secret' loot is 100% destroyed, without even a record of its destruction on the KM.

Lets just say - if I was going to theoretically move multiple T2 BPO's from point A to point B in highsec.....they would be moved in the 'secret compartment' of a heavily tanked Orca with an empty 'normal' cargo bay. Its safer than the fastest blockade runner or fleetest Covert-Ops ship. Safer than the highest EHP Jump Freighter. Because nobody knows what you have behind all the EHP - and they won't get it anyway. The less dim traders out there have figured this out long ago - and this abuse needs to end.

3. Crimewatch seems to be about getting other players involved in law enforcement! Thats Great! Guess that means we can roll back Concord a bit, then.

You know, kind of like 2007/2008. When Concord took 30 seconds to show up in 0.5, and sec status penalties were about 1/3 of today. I am all for greater player involvement in enforcing high-sec rules, rewards for 'white hats', a meaningful bounty/sec status reward system. Even the 'suspect' flag can be worked with - (though if it happens, I'd like to see ALL player wrecks set blue - not just for gankers - so a succesful sui-ganker can actually loot a victim without having to picking up aggro from everyone else on the gate. As it is, its already a race with the vultures....)

But with all that extra player involvement, we don't need Concord to be quite so lightning prompt, now do we? As it is, annoying pop-ups and normal trans-Atlantic lag (or crappy internet service) eats up a LOT of your 'ganking window'. Reset Concord to 2008-era reponse times, give gankers a bit more 'breathing room' to account for lag-issues and additional risks added by Crimewatch.

4. Return Concord Pop-up Window defaulting to 'YES' from 'No.'
-Sorry to say this, CCP but this was a **** move. That window (impossible to shut off in highsec, BTW) is dealt with by the ganking community far more than any other class of player. In just TONIGHTs miner ganking session, I've had to clear it 36 times. Yes, Tab-Enter is FAR more annoying than just hitting Enter, because only have two hands and one is on the mouse.

I don't get it - is your aim really to eventually force gankers down the road of hotkey and macro use, just to clear multiple clunky pop-ups? You know, kind of like a sick joke - as miner gankers tend to blow up botters and AFKers more than anything else?

Granted, sounds like you are going to have this 'fixed' with Crimewatch safety condoms for carebears. (and kill off the entire 'profession' of baiting and destroying LVL 4 mission runners in the process....well, it was a 4 year run, Suddenly Ninjas, sorry CCP don't want you around no more.....) But I suppose we'll get to that bridge when someone starts coding on something other than a whiteboard.

5. I don't know! What do you think??
I understand that gankers tend to be a pretty adaptable bunch. Generally we just figuring out how to make things work through experimentation and practice. We just aren't used to asking CCP to change the conditions of the game on our behalf - short of asking for clarifications of stealth-nerfs and complaining about the goalposts always being shifted against us.

Here is a thread where those who specialize in blowing up and requesitioning 'high-sec assets' can speak up.
Mentally challenged carebears and 'leet' PVPers need not chime in. This isn't about PVP. Its about PvC. Because we all know that Carebears aren't players. They aren't even people most of the time.

I certainly think that suicide ganking should be a possible profession - and I say that as a non-ganker who has been ganked in high sec in the past due to his stupidity. The idea of an insta-kill CONCORD raygun is a bit ridiculous.

Nothing should ever be 100% safe in high sec. Close to 100%, perhaps, but not completely. This is EVE after all.

Again, in something vaguely resembling English please?

But seriously, I don't see how you can tell people what they should be doing or finding fun.

You seem to be arguing that everyone in high sec should be completely safe, that suigankers have no right to shoot "casuals and newbs", and that anyone who wants to shoot other people should be in null or low. This is EVE - it's harsh. Deal with it.

At least expand on why they "should be in null/low playing the real game instead of grieffing casuals and newbs", rather than just stating it as fact.

1) Far too much incentivisation for pod killing as a result. And competes directly with an exisiting NPC isk sink. Especially when there is no suggested sink related costs for extracting the implants and should never be even closes as competative as the current exisitng process as it would then be viewed as "the" way to obtain implants as opposed to regular ways.

If penalties associated with pod killing can be married with any gain improvements also then it makes the idea of farming them justified. Also by your argument, the profitable exercise of farming easily readily available implants in null sec from blobs becomes a very real challenge to the implant economy as a result.

2) Orca Corporate hanger bays should be accesible to player scans. And also to NPC custom scans. (Please see my sig for an alternative proposal.)

3) With the numerous systems and places for gankers to operate their practice it is simply a naive view that players can police the activity as a result. They simply cannot be in every place a ganking situation will occur at any give time or that every ganker will have an associated layer shadowing their every move in order to challenge them, that's simply a ridiculous argument. Therefore, it is a invalid premise to believe that player can in any way replace the process of Concord.

The contra argument of course is the fact that criminals can as a result spend significant time in their activities currently being unchallenged.

The changes with new crimewatch mechanics do not prevent suicide ganking either, they only propose to make it more important for criminal activity to be managed better as poor security status would have new implications as preventative or more challenging to the criminal behaviour. Yet at the same time it also introduces more ways of repairing this poor security status.

4) "Safeties" under this proposal, will allow people to remove the current annoying checkbox behaviour.

5) Gankers have had signiifcant improvements aswell as reductions to their activities. E.g. Tier 3 BC's and dessie improvements. Meanwhile they operate in a pretty unchallenged way with their practices. And its comes down to a spreadsheet exercise of target picking being the only real relevance or awareness to the excercise.

This moreso relevant when the recognised player policing mechanic aka "bounty hunting" is simply broken or offers an exploitable feature in favour of the criminal. As such my opinion is that it is not the criminal who is hard done by these changes, it is more a move to re-address the balance of risk, culpability and challenge associated with criminal activities at present.

How bout you cut out the middle man just hit self destruct and earn some isk like everyone else?

Suiciding is more of a skill and more intensive than running L4 missions, Incursions or any other "safe" high sec activity. Once you run the Dread Pirate Scarlett L4 and work out all you have to do is alpha her on the 3rd Acceleration gate and you get a 8-9M implant drop and don't have to kill anyone else in the rooms, that is pretty much it.

Suiciding is continually being looked at in a negative light but it is no more a dishonest activity that many of the others that go on in EVE and should be looked upon as a legitimate way to play the game. Now, there is obviously some areas that need to be looked at, where suiciding is unbalanced, but if you can kill a pilot carrying goods you should be able to take their goods without suffering the wrath of every single white knight or regular player around the place or suffering any other disproportionate penalty.

My personal opinion is that a lot of things won't ever get changed to help suicide gankers, but nerf after nerf after nerf is just an unsustainable way to deal with it.

I don't think I've seen anything on crimewatch that really affected suicide-ganking. There's no reason to change much in that aspect

But I agree that Orca hangars should be scannable though. It's very easy to get an Orca's EHP well over 200k so it's not a very profitable ship to suicide-gank (unless you're carrying billions in loot, in which case it's your own bloody fault.)



You should look again where ever you pulled that statement from. I think you missed a rabbit

Suicide-ganking is one of the oldest professions in EVE and CCP always condoned it. The only measure they've taken is against recycling of alts and forfeiting insurance. More then enough. If carebears are still insisting on making themselves a viable target, it's their own bloody fault.

That was changed quite some time ago iirc...

Suicide ganking = killing soft targets that don't fight back.


You could of course grow a pair and do some real PvP.

Is this a troll or not?