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Nevy Apoc or Navy Geddon for level 4 PvE please?

Author
Kendo Kanli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-03-21 18:56:49 UTC
Greetings, I am thinking of getting one of these, I was wondering for level 4 missions what would be the better ship please? I do not plan on using drones all that much apart from T2 medium's.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-03-21 19:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
The Navy Geddon is faster at completing missions, but it's also more demanding on player skill. Also you don't fit it to be cap stable, using Cap Boosters allows you to go mad with damage mods and tracking comps to get the extra range out of multifreq.
A substantial part of why it's a mission destroying beast is the fact it can use Sentries, which help give a decent DPS boost as well as improving the Navy Geddon's damage projection.

Navy Apoc on the other hand just builds on the normal Apoc, as such, it's a very capable ship. It will do slightly less paper DPS than the Navy Geddon from its turrets, but you can do that turret damage over quite a bit more range thanks to the hull's bonus. It's also easier to fit and you can make it cap stable if you need too (obviously, Cap Booster is better for the same reasons as the Geddon).


Oh, T2 Pulse's for both is a must.

TL;DR:
As you don't want to train up T2 Sentries, I'd say go with the Navy Apoc.
Kendo Kanli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-03-21 19:23:39 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
The Navy Geddon is faster at completing missions, but it's also more demanding on player skill. Also you don't fit it to be cap stable, using Cap Boosters allows you to go mad with damage mods and tracking comps to get the extra range out of multifreq.
A substantial part of why it's a mission destroying beast is the fact it can use Sentries, which help give a decent DPS boost as well as improving the Navy Geddon's damage projection.

Navy Apoc on the other hand just builds on the normal Apoc, as such, it's a very capable ship. It will do slightly less paper DPS than the Navy Geddon from its turrets, but you can do that turret damage over quite a bit more range thanks to the hull's bonus. It's also easier to fit and you can make it cap stable if you need too (obviously, Cap Booster is better for the same reasons as the Geddon).


Oh, T2 Pulse's for both is a must.

TL;DR:
As you don't want to train up T2 Sentries, I'd say go with the Navy Apoc.



Thank you Buzz., much appreciated.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-03-21 20:00:37 UTC
I would second the above and add that I find the Navy Apoc much more forgiving than the Navy Geddon. Both get the job done though. With all L4s mind the aggro, control your drone aggression (I set mine passive), kill the Web and Scram boats first (easier to see them with the recent overview changes). Keep your transversal up and alway be ready to GTFO.

Boosters or Cap Ctable is a personal preference. Personally I like to have around 5-7 minutes of Cap with Scorches installed and Repper running. Most waves will take less time then that to dispatch. Great thing about ethier boat (doubly so for the Apoc though) is the ability to blap targets at 65-75km away. The only L4 missions I find troublesome are the ones where you land right on top of the enemy.

Just my .02 ISK.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
barbara1234
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-21 21:58:41 UTC
Having used both an unforeseen benefit I found when using the Geddon was that its resilience to tracking disruption due to its sentries. Both are beastly, the Geddon sort of needs faction trimmings to fit properly whilst the Apoc is cool with just T2.

Tbh Navy Geddons are so cheap just have both, win win win.
Kendo Kanli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-03-22 02:14:01 UTC
Thank you very much everyone. Your advice and insight helped me immensely, I have since bought the Apocalypse Navy Issue and resides safe and sound. Just waiting on my training now, and for the time being I am using an Omen Navy Issue (fantastic DPS) for my level 3's.

Cheers Everyone.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#7 - 2012-03-22 05:02:56 UTC
I'm a little late to the thread, but for a newer player, I think the Navy Apoc is the best choice. The Armageddon shines with T2 sentry drones (that's an additional 300 DPS). The extra range of the Navy Apoc and the nice cap will be very handy for a new player. Look into the Paladin as a long term goal.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-03-22 06:13:45 UTC
I fly both to be honest depending on if im solo or fleeted up. For the solo I usually go with the apoc as it is much more forgiving of those warp in full agro situations. Where as if you are fleeted the ROF bonus on the navy ged with faction heat sinks will let your fleet fly through even the longer missions.

Both can give good results so I think the critical consideration between them is are you fitting T2 sentries, as stated. Other than that fit cap booster and get a shiney large armor rep and these are mission grinders. Just beware of the typical amarr damage type problems.
Temo Pher
#9 - 2012-03-22 07:42:41 UTC
I love my navy Armageddon. I realy do. Its fun, Its sexy and you dont see them around that much. But thats the thing. There is a good reason you dont see it that often. There realy isnt any way to make it viable as anything but a glass cannon, and glass cannons with faction price tags arnt that smart. Honestly there isnt anything this ship can do that you couldnt do better with something else at half the SP and ISK investment. That said it is fun.

Now the Navy Apoc, thats a differant beast, much more capable, forgiving and slightly more versatile... though not much. Cant compeet with the Armageddon for looks though. If your going to fly somthing ugly any way you may as well just go with a raven or a dominix.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-03-22 14:10:59 UTC
Temo Pher wrote:
I love my navy Armageddon. I realy do. Its fun, Its sexy and you dont see them around that much. But thats the thing. There is a good reason you dont see it that often. There realy isnt any way to make it viable as anything but a glass cannon, and glass cannons with faction price tags arnt that smart. Honestly there isnt anything this ship can do that you couldnt do better with something else at half the SP and ISK investment. That said it is fun.

Now the Navy Apoc, thats a differant beast, much more capable, forgiving and slightly more versatile... though not much. Cant compeet with the Armageddon for looks though. If your going to fly somthing ugly any way you may as well just go with a raven or a dominix.


Seconding the Apoc is ugly comment. IMO the ugliest Amarr ship, well maybe the stupid looking frigate (Crucifier) is worse.

The cut outs along the underside of the hull, the hooked nose, and the trapezoidal exhaust ports do nothing for the overall look. But if I'm ranking T1 and faction (excluding the Bhaal) Amarr Battleships it goes like this.

Navy Apoc
Abaddon
Navy Geddon
Apoc
Geddon

The glass cannon aspect of the Navy Geddon puts it below the Abaddon IMO.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Kristoffon Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-03-22 14:29:36 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
The glass cannon aspect of the Navy Geddon puts it below the Abaddon IMO.

Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

With 2 plates, 2 eanms and trimarks the navy geddon hits 150kehp.

How do you consider that a glass cannon?

Oh because you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

The geddon and navy geddon are buffer tank high dps in-your-face close range ships. Trying to use them with active tanks is suboptimal and not what they're meant for.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-03-22 18:01:20 UTC
*some logi required, see store for details.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#13 - 2012-03-22 18:35:59 UTC
Echoing above, Geddon for speed, Apoc for fitting/skill ease. I fit both with meta4 Tachs, since I spend most of my time in Multifreq range (40+km for tachs! 50 with apoc) anyway, the upgrade to t2 ammo is not worth the fitting cost. More important is to decide if you're heading for Paladin or not. IMO Geddon is a better long term boat then Navy Apoc, but those sentry skills yo uhave to dig for won't be usable once you get to Pally, so if you're going that way it may be best to stick with the apoc.

The Geddon is not really a glass cannon though, at least not any more then the Apoc (Baddon is overtanked, undercapped and inneficient at l4s imo). I run my l4 boats gank fit with about 450 DPS mission-hardened tank, which takes about 4 slots max. Combined with smart spawn pulling (and turning down those damn guristas missions), everything dies before my tank is stressed; this holds true even for a t1 Apoc, and just gets faster with the faction versions. The Geddon fits that tank just as easily as the Apoc, only difference is it's not as cap stable and needs a cap booster.
Liam Mirren
#14 - 2012-03-23 03:14:15 UTC
If you can use T2 pulses then you can go either Abaddon or Navy Geddon. If you have GOOD drone skills and T2 sentries then the Navy Geddon will outperform an Abaddon, if you don't then it'll be worse. If you lack T2 pulses and/or very good fittings skills or aren't interested in having to pay lots of attention (proper abaddon isn't easy to use, it's a bit cap hungry) then get a Navy Apoc. Napoc is easy to use on low SP and is decent allround.

Once you get good sp and don't want the lazy gameplay anymore switch to an Abaddon till you can fly the Paladin.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Liam Mirren
#15 - 2012-03-23 03:16:30 UTC
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
The glass cannon aspect of the Navy Geddon puts it below the Abaddon IMO.

Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

With 2 plates, 2 eanms and trimarks the navy geddon hits 150kehp.

How do you consider that a glass cannon?

Oh because you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

The geddon and navy geddon are buffer tank high dps in-your-face close range ships. Trying to use them with active tanks is suboptimal and not what they're meant for.



I can see why you're in TEST.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

To mare
Advanced Technology
#16 - 2012-03-23 07:58:29 UTC
navy apoc for low skill/cap stable setup
navy geddon for killing speed and maximum efficency on isk/hour
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
#17 - 2012-03-24 01:30:09 UTC
Don't forget the navy apoc can use 3 sentries!!!!
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#18 - 2012-03-24 14:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
It also depends on which enemy you want to kill.

(Navy) Geddon against Guristas/Angels is the better chose (as you can use heavy/sentry kin drons)
(Navy) Apoc against Sansha/Bloods is the better chose (isn't hurt by TD and Neut that much)

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#19 - 2012-03-24 17:44:42 UTC
Navy Geddon is great for close range lvl4s. However, unless you want a gimped fit, don't even bother with cap stability, just use a cap booster, even for PvE.

Navy Apoc is great for most lvl4s. Almost every mission can be done with Mega Pulses on it. There are a few that will be very annoying and would be better with Mega Beams, so change fit according to mission, ignore those missions, or bite the bullet and take longer with Pulses.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-25 00:13:58 UTC
geddon is by far better.
only reason you should ever buy a navy apoc is if youre drunk and missclick in your market.

There is no Bob.

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