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Shield transporter VS armor remote repair module (balance)
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Joyelle
SludgeSlingers
#1 - 2012-03-22 22:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Joyelle
Shield transfers use about 15 - 20 % more cap per cycle compared to their armor counterparts that are in most cases mounted on ships with way better cap stability compared to their shield mates. Fix this, then, chimeras used in shield fleets won't run out cap 30 secs into a fight.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-03-22 23:46:39 UTC
Joyelle wrote:
Shield transfers use about 15 - 20 % more cap per cycle compared to their armor counterparts that are in most cases mounted on ships with way better cap stability compared to their shield mates. Fix this, then, chimeras used in shield fleets won't run out cap 30 secs into a fight.


Counterpoint, shield reps land at the beginning of the cycle allowing you to do a massive frontload on reps. This mixed with shieldfleets being far more nimble than armor makes up for the slightly better cap and lower sigs with armor.

These things are clearly not meant to be equal.
Joyelle
SludgeSlingers
#3 - 2012-03-23 00:46:32 UTC
My experience with shield and armor fleets has made it more than obvious that armor ships have enough buffer which allows for enough time to react. I see where you are coming from but literally, my point is that remote armor reps consume less cap per cycle and the ships they are fitted on generally possess better cap stability before considering the effect of mods.
If anything change should be made at all, it should be to capital shield transporters. It's fairly reasonable, if the lower variants are left as they are atm.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-23 00:54:14 UTC
While I'm okay with the differences between armor and shield remote reps, I know for sure that Armor RR Battleships do exist, but I have yet to see Shield RR Battleships.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-03-23 01:33:23 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
While I'm okay with the differences between armor and shield remote reps, I know for sure that Armor RR Battleships do exist, but I have yet to see Shield RR Battleships.


RRBS is really a dead doctrine it was killed by logistics buffs.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#6 - 2012-03-23 11:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Shield RRBS was always a bit silly because of crazy CPU use of shield transporters. Then, logistics.

Capital shield RR suffered from the same problem too. Recently CCP cut the CPU of cap shield transporters, which helped the Chimera, but you still can't get a sensible triage shield Nidhoggur without a lot of fancy mods. Or a co-pro, I suppose, but the lowslots are really needed for CPRs. Although this might be more of a problem with the CPU of the capital shield booster...
Jalmari Huitsikko
Avanto
Hole Control
#7 - 2012-03-24 07:58:38 UTC
overpowered logistics made rr bs and to some extent even carriers useless
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#8 - 2012-03-26 19:53:14 UTC
Even when spider tanking BS was "in" only armor BS had the option as shield transporters were (and still are) too expensive to fit.
Joyelle
SludgeSlingers
#9 - 2012-03-26 21:06:59 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Joyelle wrote:
Shield transfers use about 15 - 20 % more cap per cycle compared to their armor counterparts that are in most cases mounted on ships with way better cap stability compared to their shield mates. Fix this, then, chimeras used in shield fleets won't run out cap 30 secs into a fight.


Counterpoint, shield reps land at the beginning of the cycle allowing you to do a massive frontload on reps. This mixed with shieldfleets being far more nimble than armor makes up for the slightly better cap and lower sigs with armor.

These things are clearly not meant to be equal.

The only viable shield fleets of nowadays employ skirmish setups and this limits the variety of ships you can bring to such fleets. It's either minmatar variants or gtfo. Where is the torp raven? I can't remember when last time I saw any shield BS fleets around. Armor has always been the favorable tanking style for brawling when using battleships and above. This is also noticeable in Heavy assault ship gangs.
Any smart person nowadays is gunning for armor caps mostly because shield caps are pretty much sub par to their armor counterparts in every way that matters. Why should I use use a chimera when it's cap, tank and logistic ability are all sub par to that of its direct armor counterpart? It's too much of a setback imo and numbers don't lie; They would be a balance in usage if these things were properly balanced in the first place.

P.S. The main reason armor reppers activate at the end of the cycle is because of the order of the various parts that make up a ship (shield before armor) and not a setback in anyway.