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Faction Warfare: Preventing Docking is a Stupid Idea
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iownuall123
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-24 03:19:34 UTC
if you're in a warzone and you need to get out of the fight, do you go into a hostile controlled area and ask if you can take a quick rest? No, they would shoot you on site and never allow you in. How does that not make sense to people?
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-03-24 03:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleet Warpsujarento
iownuall123 wrote:
if you're in a warzone and you need to get out of the fight, do you go into a hostile controlled area and ask if you can take a quick rest? No, they would shoot you on site and never allow you in. How does that not make sense to people?


You might have a point if Caldari space was filled with exclusively Caldari stations, but it isn't. There are Minmatar and Gallente stations in those systems. Factions that are actually at war with the owners of the space they occupy. The fanfest proposals would apply to the, too.

Not that it would matter, since it's not about some loose sense of consistency with the lore. It's about game design that encourages people to play the game like the developers want them to. In this case they want people to join FW but are introducing disadvantages for doing so.
None ofthe Above
#23 - 2012-03-24 03:45:08 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Being able to dock in stations belonging to a Faction that really hate you is also stupid. The way stations are totally randomly distributed over all Factions is also stupid.


I think there is a valid point about docking privs being tied to control of the system.

But I think it should not being restricted to just FW members and shouldn't be all stations in the system. Military stations sure. But there should be relatively neutral or at least civilian stations that would still allow docking (although maybe the effective standing with the could be adjusted).

This all applies pretty equally with NPC Null. Docking in pirate stations seems silly if they hate you, but there should be neutral stations around. Sisters of EVE maybe?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#24 - 2012-03-24 03:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
iownuall123 wrote:
if you're in a warzone and you need to get out of the fight, do you go into a hostile controlled area and ask if you can take a quick rest? No, they would shoot you on site and never allow you in. How does that not make sense to people?


You might have a point if Caldari space was filled with exclusively Caldari stations, but it isn't. There are Minmatar and Gallente stations in those systems. Factions that are actually at war with the owners of the space they occupy. The fanfest proposals would apply to the, too.

Not that it would matter, since it's not about some loose sense of consistency with the lore. It's about game design that encourages people to play the game like the developers want them to. In this case they want people to join FW but are introducing disadvantages for doing so.


I think the thought is they become occupied, kinda like Star Trek DS9. But that doesn't make sense with the station owners standing to non-FW folks.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-03-24 03:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleet Warpsujarento
It's problematic to simply say that they have been "occupied", because then why would they still have the original faction's agents, sentry guns, standings and LP stores?
None ofthe Above
#26 - 2012-03-24 03:58:28 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
It's problematic to simply say that they have been "occupied", because then why would they still have the original faction's agents, sentry guns, standings and LP stores?


Agreed. That doesn't make much sense to me either.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-03-24 04:13:45 UTC
It's not stupid. In fact it is ridiculously easy to get around with a neutral alt with a cloaky hauler or just some neut to fly the ship and swap pilots in a deep ss. It does make living in the war zone more risky. There should be a corresponding reward to come with it, which I have no doubt will be a part of the revamp when it is fleshed out fully.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#28 - 2012-03-24 04:25:22 UTC
docking at the hostile militia station simply does not make sense. All other stations should be safe to dock unless the system is occupied by the hostile militia (or some other game mechanic is in place e.g. special system upgrades or whatever).

Docking games are like the most boring pvp ever invented (and it really does not make sense, why should you disappear from space and dock if somebody fires at you?). Reducing it by giving friendly militia an advantage at undock of a friendly militia station is a big win.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Propmod
The Creepshow
#29 - 2012-03-24 04:38:51 UTC
So what advantages does being in faction warfare have over just joining a pirate corp and killing people in low sec then? cheap LP items dont seem to outweigh being able to dock in any station imo. I don't know too much about fw other then that though. IMO , admittedly with my limited knowledge of the situation, this doesnt seem like a step forward for FW.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#30 - 2012-03-24 04:48:26 UTC
base out of a nearby highsec station

peace y'all
None ofthe Above
#31 - 2012-03-24 05:19:26 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Being able to dock in stations belonging to a Faction that really hate you is also stupid. The way stations are totally randomly distributed over all Factions is also stupid.


I think there is a valid point about docking privs being tied to control of the system.

But I think it should not being restricted to just FW members and shouldn't be all stations in the system. Military stations sure. But there should be relatively neutral or at least civilian stations that would still allow docking (although maybe the effective standing with the could be adjusted).

This all applies pretty equally with NPC Null. Docking in pirate stations seems silly if they hate you, but there should be neutral stations around. Sisters of EVE maybe?


You know I am going to reverse myself here, as much as it seems to make sense to deny docking privs when systems flip, the I don't think that denying players access to their possessions in fast moving FW is a good idea.

Denial of services or perhaps more expensive based on standings of the new system owner, but not docking rights.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#32 - 2012-03-24 05:36:40 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.


A few of you do. A few of us sometimes go to null sec.

But by and large you guys like your game mechanics and we like ours. The idea is to have different options in eve not make everyone do the same thing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#33 - 2012-03-24 05:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
EI Digin wrote:
base out of a nearby highsec station

peace y'all



Making it take longer to reship or ship up or down will just slow down the game.

IMO CCP should be working to pick up the pace of pvp in fw and make it more dynamic. They shouldn't make it plod along at an even slower pace.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#34 - 2012-03-24 05:42:30 UTC
Propmod wrote:
So what advantages does being in faction warfare have over just joining a pirate corp and killing people in low sec then? cheap LP items dont seem to outweigh being able to dock in any station imo. I don't know too much about fw other then that though. IMO , admittedly with my limited knowledge of the situation, this doesnt seem like a step forward for FW.


I agree.

The ablility to have ships at various places so you can quickly reship and get in a fight would be a huge advantage for the non-fw low sec pvpers.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#35 - 2012-03-24 05:43:21 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
It's problematic to simply say that they have been "occupied", because then why would they still have the original faction's agents, sentry guns, standings and LP stores?


Maybe agents need to change allegiance as well. Or the "old" agent goes into hiding and a new agent shows up in the window to offer you missions.

LP stores could simply be "closed for business" during the occupation by enemy forces.

Sentry guns could be changed at DT based on who has Sov, or just make them "generic". Heck, other then the name, I couldn't tell you whether they are graphically different because they're never more then an in the window.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#36 - 2012-03-24 05:44:34 UTC
Propmod wrote:
So what advantages does being in faction warfare have over just joining a pirate corp and killing people in low sec then?


Well, instead of 100% of the opposing players wanting to kill you, now only 60-80% of the other players in the system want to kill you?

(shrugs) It probably needs some more "rewards" and "benefits" added.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#37 - 2012-03-24 07:02:18 UTC
NPC Standings should dictate docking rights for all players not just FW players.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2012-03-24 08:00:30 UTC
Don't worry, it will never happen. Response against it has been pretty much unanimous from just about anyone operating in FW/LS .. problem is that the idea even made it into the presentation, proof of a major flaw in the thought/decision processes in Iceland which does not bode well for any of us (null/high included).
CSM6 rode high on a back-log of items that were vetted and ready to fix, CSM7 will have to work hard for a living me'thinks Big smile
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.

You spend most of your time in enemy space as FW pilots are wont to? If not then the comparison is neither here nor there.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#39 - 2012-03-24 08:12:43 UTC
I remember back during WW2 when I lived in San Francisco.

We'd often see Japanese warships pulling into the harbor to refuel and take on provisions after a large naval battle.

Mr Epeen Cool
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2012-03-24 08:17:49 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:


You spend most of your time in enemy space as FW pilots are wont to? If not then the comparison is neither here nor there.


I often spend 2 weeks in enemy space in my bomber and only comeback because I either die, run out of ammo or have something nice in my cargo.

This change makes perfect sense and gives FW some risk it has badly needed for years as well as a goal.