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Tell me all about the Shield Curse.
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Calliste Orange
House Orange
#1 - 2012-03-23 13:01:36 UTC
It's a thing of great aesthetic beauty as far as joined up pixels exist in our world and I'm becoming all trippy with it.

My questions are these:

What is the forum concensus on its advantages and drawbacks? What does it do well, and what does it not in a whole variety of situations? Show me creativity and insight! but obviously, ignore any PvE discussion, please -not looking to Worlds Collide in one.

Thanks, you lovely EVE player people!
Rindon Callsar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-03-23 13:45:11 UTC
Calliste Orange wrote:
It's a thing of great aesthetic beauty as far as joined up pixels exist in our world and I'm becoming all trippy with it.

My questions are these:

What is the forum concensus on its advantages and drawbacks? What does it do well, and what does it not in a whole variety of situations? Show me creativity and insight! but obviously, ignore any PvE discussion, please -not looking to Worlds Collide in one.

Thanks, you lovely EVE player people!






The problem with shield tanking for PvP is that is absolutely rapes your mid slots. That is especially detrimental for a ship that needs almost every mid for web/scram/damps to be effective.

Also, don't most people gtfo whenever a Curse pops up on D-scan?
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-03-23 13:49:04 UTC
Rindon Callsar wrote:
Also, don't most people gtfo whenever a Curse pops up on D-scan?


no
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#4 - 2012-03-23 13:52:11 UTC
Shield Curse = Speed + Neuts <- you WILL be primary in any engagement (Unless you have ECM on field) Don't bother with it for solo, no one will engage you in it unless they know they have the backup for your Neuts not to matter.

Great support ship for a nano fleet though.

The thing to remember here is that much like the Falcon, the Curse is a well known and extremely effective force multiplier, which means no one will ever let you live in a fight if they can help it. Shield curse means you can run away...which these days is the primary goal of most PvP ships. Kill and run before his friends show up.
Calliste Orange
House Orange
#5 - 2012-03-23 15:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Calliste Orange
Let's open this up a bit -there are sure to be newer pilots who will at some point in the future train Amarr Cruiser to V, look over at this Curse and and would surely appreciate some sound discussion from those who have valuable opinions or experience to share on tactics, fittings and whatnot in this very thread.

To refine it a bit, no PvE as stated. Solo or gang fits and debate is the order of the day.

Broad Examples:

Why shield tank it? Why not shield tank it?

Add Heavy Missile launchers or not? If not, why not? (Khanid philosophy etc.)

How does it compare to others of the same ship class in situation x or y? (A Pilgrim being the most obvious.)

Why is it a chocolate brown colour or is my ATI gfx card on its last legs?

That kind of thing -thanks.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#6 - 2012-03-23 15:48:03 UTC
Why shield tank it? Why not shield tank it?

A shield tanked Curse offer significant mobility (read speed and maneuverability) at the expense of tracking disruptors (bonused EWAR for the Hull) and some EHP. Armor Curse is slow but offers a lot of bonused tracking disruption in addition to the neuting power, with a slight EHP advantage. Both versions are fragile, competent logistics pilots are required if you expect to live even through a small fleet engagement. Below are two Fits I have flown int he past.

[Curse, Shield]

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Large Shield Extender II

Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Power Diagnostic System II

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hammerhead II x5


[Curse, Armor]

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Nosferatu II
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5



The Armor Curse gives up some neuting power and mobility for better resistance profile and EWAR. The idea being you can force turret enemies in with the TDs then neut, while hopefuly being kept alive by logi (you put the NOS on a fleet mate in a guardian to ensure that your TDs never stop running...)

The Shield Curse can dart in drain a target dry of cap then dart back out.

Both fits are design as fleet support not solo, hence no point. The small cap booster and navy 400 charges are life savers, and ABSOLUTELY necessary, you cap yourself out just as quick as your target in these ships.


Add Heavy Missile launchers or not? If not, why not? (Khanid philosophy etc.)

I do not like the heavy missiles on the curse. You are not a DPS ship, you are a support ship. Assign your drones to the FC, that's your DPS. You concentrate on neuting or TDing your targets, thats your primary role. Let people better suited to it do the DPS.

How does it compare to others of the same ship class? A Pilgrim being the most obvious.

Curse is by far one of the most effective combat recons, at combat Curse + Rook are my choices for top two. The Pilgrims lack of neut range significantly limits its combat envelope. The cloak is not as powerful a tool as some seem to think. Their intended roles are different. Combat recons IMHO are mean to fly with the fleet, providing support. Pilgrims should be scouting ahead, setting up traps.

Why is it a chocolate brown colour or is my ATI gfx card on its last legs?

Chocolate is delish, and it looks like a choco bar, tasty and crackling!

That kind of thing -thanks.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-03-24 02:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Curse Page: on the EVE Gateway Blogspot.




The shield curse offers speed and agility. What that means is that you have the option to buzz around your enemies with near impunity if you learn how to fly it well. Anything that is fast enough to catch you won't want to get within 30KM of your energy neutralizers. IMO, this trumps armor + EWAR most of the time, because the increase in speed really is that good.


With heavy missiles, you are doing roughly the same amount of DPS as a Vagabond does in falloff, except your in a recon ship that is also killing the capacitor of the target and you have reserve drones. This makes it a very powerful combination if you learn how to fly it correctly. That is the key, learning how to fly in it and not die. You know you're in a good ship when it is primaried first in EVERY single engagement. This is also a downside, because you will be a flying bullseye, and if you don't get really good at bugging out you will always be the first one to lose your ship. Curses are not cheap.


They really shine in small gang and solo warfare. In a fleet fight you do not want to be in one, because there will be no saving you. If your fleet wants tracking disruption EWAR the arbitrator can do just as good as a Curse.



When The Armor Version Is Better

The armored version of the Curse gives you the option to benefit from Guardian logistical support. If your in a fleet that has a few guardians in it, you will benefit from having an armor based buffer tank. Your ship is still fast enough to avoid anything big, the small stuff will still not want to get close to you and the guardians can give your little ship a mean tank that will be very difficult to break at 30km range.




A word of advice.... let someone else tackle if you can. You just fly around at 20-30km, lob missiles and kill capacitor.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Calliste Orange
House Orange
#8 - 2012-03-24 10:53:41 UTC
Some great advice so far.

@ Eternum Praetorian - thank you for the link.

The shield fits illustrated are round about what I have here right now, but some more newbie questions:

1. Fitted T2 medium neuts - didn't consider the 50W meta until now.

-->2. Added just two HMs rather than three (that last high slot currently with a small tech 2 neut) because the cpu seemed so tight but plenty of grid left. (This appears to be a recurring theme -tight cpu).

3.

Looking at rigs now -anti-EM or Thermal rig is clearly essential but the Core Defence Field Extender shoves up the base signature radius a little on the high side for my tastes (currently, drawback six %)-two LSE is enough already -so, what about a Port Egress Maximiser I instead as a replacement? If not, tell me why this is a potentially or actually stupid idea, please.

4. Solo Curse.

The idea is initially to use the Arbitrator as as test. Don't care how many dozens are lost, and they will be, I have no doubt -partially because I enjoy the process of building them and their t2 variants -as long as experiential learning comes into play improving the understanding of what these hulls can do. Onwards to a Curse, after that but I predict few instances of fleet support of any kind for the most part, come the time. You never know but it just seems like solo would be more fun.

More input, then, from solo Curse pilots would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-03-24 11:47:45 UTC
An Arbitrator will not be an accurate reflection of flying a curse, for no other reason then it's capacitor reservoir. Just MWD'ing around, you will find that it is allot less then that of a tech II ship, even without the added cap management of dealing with your energy neutralizers. It does shine as an EWAR platform however, and you can fit it with multiple TD's as you buzz around a fight, but for this to work you will need to add sensor boosters with targeting range scripts so you can target out to 80KM and more. (the Arbitrator has a much smaller targeting range then a curse)


Two missile launchers are fine, that is how I tend to fly them. As for the core defense field extender, the increase in signature radius is meaningless because the increase in sig from your MWD is so huge anyway. In PVP you want as high resists and as large of a buffer that you can get, also increasing your over all shield size has the effect of enhancing their passive regeneration rate.



Flying in circles around your target, most things big can't hit your when your MWD'ing at the right range. Even without TD, it is very hard for them to do so effectively. So sig radius isn't so important, what you want to make sure that you have is a nice buffer so you have enough time to GTFO when things go awry. Also, it prevents you from getting alpha'd by the random Minmatar ship sporting artillery.


That being said...
You don't absolutely need the core field extender, and it indeed can be replaced with an Port Egress Maximiser I if you want, or speed and agility rigs. Fit it to taste, because neither one will decide when you live or die. Only how you fly it will, and that is why many people prefer the buffer over the others. Biggest buffer gives you the best chance for escape when you make a mistake, everything else is cap management and range to target.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Katalci
Kismesis
#10 - 2012-03-24 22:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
Read this article: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=4_17&page=4

Where the curse shines is as small-gang support. You can replace the invuln with a point if your gang needs more tackle. This will shut down four ships -- one with the ECM drones, one with your neuts, and two with the tracking disruptors. You have to maintain range in this, or you will die in a fire. You WILL be the primary in 90% of cases.
[Curse, Where did 4 of my guys go]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Overdrive Injector System II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption

Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Egress Port Maximizer II
Medium Egress Port Maximizer II


Vespa EC-600 x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Warrior II x5
Warrior II x5

Rindon Callsar wrote:

The problem with shield tanking for PvP is that is absolutely rapes your mid slots. That is especially detrimental for a ship that needs almost every mid for web/scram/damps to be effective.

Also, don't most people gtfo whenever a Curse pops up on D-scan?

Please refrain from posting about topics about which you have no knowledge or experience.

Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Two missile launchers are fine, that is how I tend to fly them.

This is not acceptable, ever. Cal needs to give you a spanking...
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2012-03-26 10:49:50 UTC
Katalci wrote:

Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Two missile launchers are fine, that is how I tend to fly them.

This is not acceptable, ever. Cal needs to give you a spanking...


It is totally acceptable, especially in nano gangs, because you will not be able to support a full rack of neuts AND mwd for very long.

Better to add some DPS and keep your cap happier for the inevitable moment where you need to GTFO (and you WILL need to GTFO in your curse).

Also, for all aspiring curse pilots:
Buy an Inherent Implants 'Squire' EE8. Just do it.

This implant is a HUGE help, I cherish mine, and it's pretty much mandatory when running talismans.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#12 - 2012-03-26 12:23:32 UTC
Helicity Boson wrote:
Katalci wrote:

Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Two missile launchers are fine, that is how I tend to fly them.

This is not acceptable, ever. Cal needs to give you a spanking...


It is totally acceptable, especially in nano gangs, because you will not be able to support a full rack of neuts AND mwd for very long.

Better to add some DPS and keep your cap happier for the inevitable moment where you need to GTFO (and you WILL need to GTFO in your curse).

Also, for all aspiring curse pilots:
Buy an Inherent Implants 'Squire' EE8. Just do it.

This implant is a HUGE help, I cherish mine, and it's pretty much mandatory when running talismans.


I agree with additional firepower coming from somewhere else than the drones in small gang. Back in the day when nos helped you I would even add some Nos in place of some neut specifically to be able to run 2xheavy pulse lasers with scorch ... I know its counter productive regarding cap usage but it was a lifesaver towards the end of fights (especially solo fights) with drones MIA and the cavallary coming to the enemy's rescue...
Krystal Flores
Deliverance.
Arrival.
#13 - 2012-03-26 14:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Krystal Flores
I fly a shield curse, mainly in nano gangs running a point.

Being fast means you can kite out of the range of their main points and run around neuting stuff and live when they shoot you.
If you can live longer you can neut longer and that's what it does.

I've flown with a missile launcher before and it doesn't do much, you have drones for that. Since a neut cant fit the 5th slot, ive also tried using a drone control but that doesn't help either.

Armor is good for the TD bonus. I haven't flown them myself cause I would rather fly my ONI instead but id imagine it would be even more effective in terms of ewar force.

As to the comparison to a Pilgrim. Since it is only ever armor tanked you can run TD + neuts. The pilgrim has no range bonus so you couldn't use it instead of a armor curse but since it warps cloaked you can hunt stuff or use it in black ops gangs.
Calliste Orange
House Orange
#14 - 2012-03-28 20:56:29 UTC
Thanks for everyone's input so far. Helicity -your implant suggestion was great -thanks.

Another thing occurred to me with a Curse; those of you who've read Ka Jolo's excellent (imo) blog may have read an early post (2008) mentioning the Thorax where he says he felt "a sense of calm assurance". This is how I feel with the Curse, or at least until someone who knows what they're doing reduces mine to scrap Ugh

But yea, let's see how it goes.
Lili Lu
#15 - 2012-03-28 21:27:06 UTC
Sure just hop on the bandwagon and ask for advice from other fotm alts.

GTFO you neut boat alts ruining small and solo pvp. If ECM boats worked I'd sure show you. X
Enjoy your upcoming long overdue and justified nerf!!! XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Teh Frog
Exotic Connections
#16 - 2012-03-28 21:50:15 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Sure just hop on the bandwagon and ask for advice from other fotm alts.

GTFO you neut boat alts ruining small and solo pvp. If ECM boats worked I'd sure show you. X
Enjoy your upcoming long overdue and justified nerf!!! XXXXXXXXXXXXX



The mad is strong with this one.
Lili Lu
#17 - 2012-03-29 00:35:32 UTC
Teh Frog wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Sure just hop on the bandwagon and ask for advice from other fotm alts.

GTFO you neut boat alts ruining small and solo pvp. If ECM boats worked I'd sure show you. X
Enjoy your upcoming long overdue and justified nerf!!! XXXXXXXXXXXXX



The mad is strong with this one.

I am made sad rather than mad at all the people like yourself that have no sense of humor and can't recognize obvious but hopefully not overdone (ok maybe even overdone since there are one too many X) sarcasm. Cry
Gnidex
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#18 - 2012-03-29 10:51:15 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Teh Frog wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Sure just hop on the bandwagon and ask for advice from other fotm alts.

GTFO you neut boat alts ruining small and solo pvp. If ECM boats worked I'd sure show you. X
Enjoy your upcoming long overdue and justified nerf!!! XXXXXXXXXXXXX



The mad is strong with this one.

I am made sad rather than mad at all the people like yourself that have no sense of humor and can't recognize obvious but hopefully not overdone (ok maybe even overdone since there are one too many X) sarcasm. Cry


^ One of the reasons why this forum needs a dislike button.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#19 - 2012-03-29 12:16:37 UTC
I would strongly suggest you polish up GTFO V, you will get primaried a lot Lol

Oderint Dum Metuant
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#20 - 2012-03-29 13:00:10 UTC
Katalci wrote:
Read this article: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=4_17&page=4

Where the curse shines is as small-gang support. You can replace the invuln with a point if your gang needs more tackle. This will shut down four ships -- one with the ECM drones, one with your neuts, and two with the tracking disruptors. You have to maintain range in this, or you will die in a fire. You WILL be the primary in 90% of cases.

[Curse, Where did 4 of my guys go]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Overdrive Injector System II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption

Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Egress Port Maximizer II
Medium Egress Port Maximizer II


Vespa EC-600 x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Warrior II x5
Warrior II x5.


Plug the gaping EM hole if you really want to fly a Curse in small gang situations, especially in today's meta.
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