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Fanfest 2012 presentation on Crimewatch

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Author
Ms Twitch
Skunkwerx Manufacturing
#21 - 2012-03-22 21:39:19 UTC
I personally see this as potentially dumbing the game further, yes the system is broken, not badly in how it currently works, but it seems how it was originally implemented as it's buggy as hell.
God's Apples
Wilderness
lllllllllllllllll
#22 - 2012-03-22 23:17:23 UTC
Why not just make rats in low sec give you more sec gain so you can go from -10 to over -2 faster? Also what if once you GCC all GCC's you make in your 15 minute timer that's not on a station or a gate don't lower your sec status further? This would make station and gate campers go to -10 still, but solo and small gangs that engage at a planet or a belt only lose sec for the initial GGC so they would only lose about 0.2 - 0.5 sec for the whole engagement.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#23 - 2012-03-23 00:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Liang Nuren wrote:
My only comments:
- Greyscale is wrong: Flashy Flashy pirates are dangerous in high sec or not. Please bring back Flashy.
- The changes to RR might make it so that its impossible for logistics ships to deagress (ever). That's stupid, don't do it.
- It sounds like flying through high sec as a pirate is going to be Instant Doom From The Laser Of Doom. Don't do that - the current mechanics let you take the risky path and sneak ships of varying size through high sec.
- Killmails are stupid and encourage KM whoring over following the objective.
- If simple "Suspect" gives everyone aggression against me in high sec, its almost like being flashy but better because you don't get Instant Rayed of Doom'ed. Consider letting -10 pilots into high sec without Concord/faction police intervention and just letting them be flagged to players.


I suspect that allowing anyone under -5 to be a target of opportunity (i.e: "suspect" status automatically) will mean that CONCORD doesn't have to be more efficient. If the CONCORD or local police tackle frigate can arrive quickly, it doesn't matter how long it takes the CONCORD battleships to arrive. Why you would want -10s to suffer no penalty when flying through hisec is obvious (you are -10), but that doesn't mean it is a good idea for the game as a whole. Under the new system, -10 indicates a bad, bad person who has no right being in civilized space flying alongside civilized people!

Changes to RR would require suspect status to come in two flavours: one is the aggressor, the other is merely an accomplice. There could be a "aggressor" marker. Your suspect timer and "aggressor" flag will be set when you directly aggress someone. When you assist any suspect who has the "aggressor" flag, your suspect timer will be set but your aggressor flag will not be set. Thus if I am repping someone who is repping your war target, I am flagged as a suspect by my timer being set, but my "aggressor" flag is not set. When your immediate aggressor deaggresses, he will lose the "aggressor" flag too. Thus the aggression timers on the chain-RR logis and the tracking link guy will expire normally. At the expiry of the suspect timer, both the timer and the "aggressor" flag are cleared.

This same system could be used for criminal, war target and militia target flagging: a timer with accompanying "culprit" or "aggressor" flag.

So say someone steals from your can and my friend and I start chain repping repping her. She is "suspect" with the "culprit" flag. The two logis gain the "suspect" timer due to aiding someone who has the culprit flag set. You do not shoot back. Eventually the culprit's timer runs out, the culprit flag is cleared. Then the suspect timers on the two logis run down, and everyone can safely proceed through the star gate.

And CCP Greyscale, I am one of the guilty parties: I couldn't hear the conversation over the clicking of your lanyard clip or whatever it was. Sorry for making a big thing of it: I really enjoyed your presentation, you are an great public speaker, but the CLICK noise from CLICK the lanyaCLICK distracted froCLICK the converatioCLICK. Hold your hands together Monty Burns style next time, NO FROBBING :)

Would watch this presentation again. Also, any chance of hires version of the crime watch chart?
Rajji Jones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-03-23 00:44:27 UTC
While you're at it, how about killmails for self-destructs in combat?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#25 - 2012-03-23 03:37:58 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Why you would want -10s to suffer no penalty when flying through hisec is obvious (you are -10), but that doesn't mean it is a good idea for the game as a whole. Under the new system, -10 indicates a bad, bad person who has no right being in civilized space flying alongside civilized people!


I admit I lol'ed pretty hard at this. On the flip side, now that I've read Greyscale's clarification regarding "Suspect" status, I think they should just delete the Eve Online source tree and turn themselves into the local insane asylum. They've obviously lost their ******* minds.

Quote:
Changes to RR would require suspect status to come in two flavours ... At the expiry of the suspect timer, both the timer and the "aggressor" flag are cleared.


Greyscale clarified this in the other thread - he goofed in the presentation. You inherit the timer of the person you're assisting. You'll both end up deagressed simultaneously.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Arctic Monkey
The Last Ship
Together We Solo
#26 - 2012-03-23 03:54:00 UTC
Will there be any love for logistics pilots on killmails? Something like negative damage would be simple, and allow a much more complete picture of a fight.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#27 - 2012-03-23 04:40:06 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
On the flip side, now that I've read Greyscale's clarification regarding "Suspect" status, I think they should just delete the Eve Online source tree and turn themselves into the local insane asylum. They've obviously lost their ******* minds


Well, I prefer to look at is as Greyscale only having communicated half an idea, there was a troubling part during the presentation where Greyscale said something along the lines of, "we skipped that part because it looks too hard". Which made me panic at the time because the hard part is usually the part that matters.
Di Mulle
#28 - 2012-03-23 08:08:01 UTC
I kind of turned my attention to the thing which is unrelated to crimewatch, but was asked and answered during Q and A. Corp roles. They said it is an obscure code they are afraid to touch, to think about it even. Although there is a consensus it needs to be redone.

Maybe it is hard. But I am hearing and reading this response for what, 4 years ? Don't you guys at CCP think it became a very poor excuse by now ?
Or you still hope the problem magically goes away ?
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Pinky Denmark
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-03-23 13:21:12 UTC
I completely missed this, however I guess as said there will be devblogs...

Crimewatch is obviously a big system controlling many things.
In my opinion there are 3 important factors:
- Change security loss/gain mechanics to promote pvp
- Change aggro mechanics and include remote assistance
- Change Bounties and sentry mechanics

Make security stat hits depending on the sec status of the system
Make security stat hits smaller to not punish spare time pirates
Make it harder to gain security status while ratting/missioning for isk
Maybe add a limited feature to purchase sec status perhaps upto -2.0 for isk/lp?
Have station/gateguns in lowsec to escalate dps every 15 seconds in 3-5 stages (0->1000->2500->5000->10000)
Make sure ships (logistics) gets aggro for remote assisting to not dock up
Make aggro mechanics longer to reflect the EHP on Eve ships today (docking games are too easy these days)
Have bounties connected to kill-rights instead of security status
Having a bounty should MEAN something - extra cost on repairs? insurance? clone contracts? market fee?
Have bounties connected to the ship of the pirate paying out partial bounty depending on shiptype
Make sure bounties don't keep people away from pvp'ing

Pinky
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc
#30 - 2012-03-23 14:25:02 UTC
Di Mulle wrote:
I kind of turned my attention to the thing which is unrelated to crimewatch, but was asked and answered during Q and A. Corp roles. They said it is an obscure code they are afraid to touch, to think about it even. Although there is a consensus it needs to be redone.

Maybe it is hard. But I am hearing and reading this response for what, 4 years ? Don't you guys at CCP think it became a very poor excuse by now ?
Or you still hope the problem magically goes away ?


Amen. I still have a hard time believing that the TARGET of aggression gets an aggression timer. Even if they don't shoot back, rep or jam, they get the same aggro timer as a thief.
Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#31 - 2012-03-25 14:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Raimo
If what I heard is correct (lowsec has -5 cap for regular ship killing sec repercussions, all hisec accessible in that state, only lowsec podkills and hisec suiciding can make one -10, shooting pirates and tags to fix sec) this will be amazing and will really resurrect this game!
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#32 - 2012-03-26 02:41:51 UTC
Fully Supported, can't wait for:
-Flipping cans = Suspect to everyone
-Negative status limit at -5 for regular killing, and you don't get chased in hisec. (Clarification needed as to whether can flipping is part of that, since you go "suspect")
-Podding/Suicide ganking is the only way to go -10 (hell yes. wayyy more fun for lowsec guys).
-Removal of concord "spawns" in place of a ray, provided that ray isn't used to kill people -10 as soon as they enter into a system.
-Docking aggro timer on RR'ing someone that is aggressed.
-Selling tags for Sec. Esp if they are the "Shadow" variety.

Needs to be added:
-RR'ing -10 guys that aren't currently GCC in lowsec isn't a big deal.
-RR'ing people at war flags you as suspect to everyone
-Someone in this thread had a good idea that, since a character is flagged as shoot-able by everyone anyway, the -10 guys should be able to travel through hisec, being flagged "suspect" the whole time and let players enforce the "law."

Heavy thought required:
-Killing -10 guys to increase sec. (Should be tied to value of ship destroyed.... otherwise this WILL be exploited)



Station crap outside Dodixie will finally stop, and SOOOO many more ships will die. I am very excited.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#33 - 2012-03-28 09:50:17 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
My only comments:
- Greyscale is wrong: Flashy Flashy pirates are dangerous in high sec or not. Please bring back Flashy.
- The changes to RR might make it so that its impossible for logistics ships to deagress (ever). That's stupid, don't do it.
- It sounds like flying through high sec as a pirate is going to be Instant Doom From The Laser Of Doom. Don't do that - the current mechanics let you take the risky path and sneak ships of varying size through high sec.
- Killmails are stupid and encourage KM whoring over following the objective.
- If simple "Suspect" gives everyone aggression against me in high sec, its almost like being flashy but better because you don't get Instant Rayed of Doom'ed. Consider letting -10 pilots into high sec without Concord/faction police intervention and just letting them be flagged to players.

-Liang
Kinda like saying the British Navy should have just let Captain Kidd dock in Kingston, Jamaica, and let the locals deal with him. That's no way to run an empire, mate.
Tairon Usaro
ZERO T0LERANCE
RAZOR Alliance
#34 - 2012-03-28 11:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tairon Usaro
The round table on Crimewatch sort of scared me.

I understand that all of the new crimewatch 2.0 is not finalized and totally under discussion, but still there were a few option layed out be Greyscale, that are simply absolute non-options to my eyes. Example ? Suspect being not able to shoot back once he is engaged in high-sec. WTF ?!? The fact, that Greyscale put that on the list of options, scared me to death, really ! I know its tough for you guys to prepare the Round Table discussion in the right way. If you bully a fullfletched concept through this session, then you dont get the feedback, you want and we get the feeling, you are not listening to our ideas. But if you present only the carcase of a concept and leave everything open for discussion, we get the impression, you dont know, what you are talking about and that it will endup in a fu**-up of a core game mechanic, which kind of happend to me with this roundtable session (it wouldnt be a precedence, right ? ;-) )

For this specific session, it would have been much better if you put a little more details on the table on issues with current crimewatch and then just have a pure "dev asks community specific questions about the flagging they like to have" (inverse Q&A) and no disclosure of dev ideas at all, but a promise of a summary of all ideas in a soon(tm) to be published dev blog presenting your conclusion out of this round table. It was simply to early and raw for the standard Q&A (community asks, dev answers)
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