EVE General Discussion

an exploit is an exploit when ccp says it's an exploit, why bother wrinting all this stuff up and being all philosophical about it?

Because the idea of being banned for doing something I didn't know I could be banned for worries me.



There's different kinds of "victimless" crimes. Shoplifting has a real, though minute, impact on people, there are really victims. Not wearing your seatbelt harms no one until you get in an accident and die and possible kill someone by flying out of your own window like a missile and killing someone else unintentionally with your ballistic corpse. These are irreversible.

The kind of "victimless crime" in EVE is even beyond anything real life ever has to offer. If someone loses something in the game, it is possible to literally turn back time and give that back to them through intervention. However, if a person makes a mistake, they can suffer very real consequences for a very intangible idea.

I guess this sort of sets up hipocrasy, I say both that it's "just a game" and then I say "it's important enough of a game that it's harmful to make someone stop playing it", but the effects are easy to demonstrate here. Really, people do some really terrible things in EVE on a regular basis that are considered perfectly legitimate. That's not to say that abusing exploits isn't worse than scamming people in Jita, it just seems that a permanent ban is infinitely overreacting.

Here's the actual text of the dev blog:



Here's what I saw:

It got me out of a trespassing ticket because I didn't know it was illegal to cross the railroad tracks next to my house. The judge believed me because it was a reasonable answer.

Do we really want to allow CCP to ban players based on ignorance? What if it was something they never published? I don't really think they would go so far as to do that and this post hasn't actually claimed to ban anyone yet or will definitely ban anyone in the future.

What I'm worried about is the strong wording and the arbitrary decision of "This thing people are already doing that is well understood by everyone involved is now illegal". Everyone knows (or can be expected to understand) that being aligned at 75% of max speed means you warp. Everyone knows webs slow you down. Everyone knows that if a web is slowing you down so that your speed is instantly over 75% and you're already trying to warp, you will snap into warp.

It is dangerous to draw lines like this in the middle of the crowd and then judge people for not noticing the line you just drew. The CSM was started in the first place because changes were made that pissed people off and were without warning. This might seem like a little thing now, but we should hold CCP to a higher standard than this kind of lazy reporting of policy changes.

Strangely, this would actually be a time where I would be happy when CCP would just shrug and say "Sorry 'bout that" to the freighter pilots who lost their ships by making a bad decision.

If I understand what they're saying here, it's not that the player is already in warp, but that they can't stop the ship as intended.

For a few seconds after activating the warp, you can still hit 'ctrl-s' to cancel it. By webbing them while that 'cancel' is possible, but before the ship is actually 'at warp', it puts the ship into a 'stuck' state, where the system can't decide whether the ship is warping or not.

Yes, a permanent ban is a bit excessive, but if they go half-measures on this, people will take advantage of it, because they know that all they'll get if they're caught is the EvE equivallent of a moving violation.

Note: I'm playing devils' advocate here, because I want to keep debate going. :)

That wasn't a defense, that was an excuse - And you still had to go stand before The Man, didn't you?
The judge excercised judgement and mercy - that's why they're called judges.

In EVE, they're called GMs.

There is no mechanical difference between the two in that situation.



I was given the opportunity to. I did, and won. You're effectively agreeing with me that me complaining about it is a good thing.



They're not judges, they're not even arbitrators. They make a decision as needed. If they make the wrong decision, we should be allowed the right to have that decision overturned. Also, that is outside of the scope of this conversation because my complaint is towards a statement on the dev blog, not by the decision a GM has made. GMs are not the same thing.

You broke a law. You answered for it. You got a favorable decision. Nowhere do I see that your ignorance un-broke the law. All I see is that a judge found your violation to be sufficiently trivial as to merit no formal punishment.

I don't see how your assertion that they're not judges carries any water. They act and behave as interpreters and executors of CCPs law- that makes 'em judges. The fact that their decisions can be appealed is immaterial - After all, aqppeal is a fundamental aspect of justice.


BTW: Arbitrator != Judge.
Some are, some are not. Arbitration is functionally seperate.

You typically don't kill somebody that you are helping with their warp speed.

Well, right, but if it's the same as what I'm assuming that doesn't matter.

Okay, I am bitching on the presumption that this refers to forcing someone into warp before they expect to warp. The person who webs them does not have to be the one killing them. I'm probably wrong all along (and that wouldn't be an issue if the post was clearer on it, but it's still my fault if I'm overreacting) and this could just be a genuine exploit where what's not supposed to happen is happening.

Otherwise, then, yeah. Someone forces an undecided freighter into warp (which the blame rests on the freighter for initiating warp), this could be done by an alt in high-sec forcing the freighter to land on WTs early.