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(Cancelled) Looking for a 1B loan
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Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-20 09:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Aina Sasaki
-Snip-

This offer has been closed.

- Rei
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-03-20 10:49:54 UTC
Aina Sasaki wrote:
(Did I do this right? This is the first time I've really posted on these forums. :o)


You forgot to offer a Hulk as collateral when doing this Big smile
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-20 11:05:04 UTC
Buruk Utama wrote:
Aina Sasaki wrote:
(Did I do this right? This is the first time I've really posted on these forums. :o)


You forgot to offer a Hulk as collateral when doing this Big smile


I don't have a Hulk. Can't fly one either. :P

- Rei
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#4 - 2012-03-20 17:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Aina Sasaki wrote:
From a balance of 250M two weeks ago, I have since grown this to approximately 2.1B (neither number includes the value of owned ships, but does include buy/sell orders), with most coming from trade.


If I am doing my math correctly, that is an 740% increase in two weeks. Now, station trading has the ability to be extremely profitable, especially in the early stages, but when I started out trading with a lot of knowledge on exactly how it worked, I was able to pull about a 100%-150% increase in two weeks. Moreover, it sounds like, rather than trading margins, you are leaving up orders, which takes a lot less management but pulls in less profit than margin trading (which I did to make that 100%-150% increase).

Claims of those kinds of returns make me a bit hesitant. Moreover, assuming that you are able to keep up that growth for two more weeks, you would have 15.54 billion. If you actually do have an incredible good trading technique, I would just do what you are doing for another week and make an investment of 1 billion seem trivial.

Andarius Trading Corp. | MD Borrowers and Trustees
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-20 19:36:10 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
Aina Sasaki wrote:
From a balance of 250M two weeks ago, I have since grown this to approximately 2.1B (neither number includes the value of owned ships, but does include buy/sell orders), with most coming from trade.


If I am doing my math correctly, that is an 740% increase in two weeks. Now, station trading has the ability to be extremely profitable, especially in the early stages, but when I started out trading with a lot of knowledge on exactly how it worked, I was able to pull about a 100%-150% increase in two weeks. Moreover, it sounds like, rather than trading margins, you are leaving up orders, which takes a lot less management but pulls in less profit than margin trading (which I did to make that 100%-150% increase).

Claims of those kinds of returns make me a bit hesitant. Moreover, assuming that you are able to keep up that growth for two more weeks, you would have 15.54 billion. If you actually do have an incredible good trading technique, I would just do what you are doing for another week and make an investment of 1 billion seem trivial.


Mmm... I am slightly lost on terminology here. What exactly do you mean by "trading margins" and "leaving up orders"? What I have been doing, in layman's terms, is buying low, selling high, and putting all ISK gained into additional orders. In any event, I am checking my orders quite regularly, and, on this character, I have been taking full advantage of the Daytrading skill while I am out running missions.

I don't expect to sustain this kind of growth rate, simply because I will eventually hit my order limit again (though my alt is only ~3 days away from being able to start training Tycoon) and i'd probably have to make another alt to expand further. Though... I am most certainly going to try to squeeze out as much growth as I possibly can. :)

I was also thinking that, given a few days or so, I would have enough extra funds to throw to my alt that would make this loan unnecessary. I'm just a really impatient person who, giddy with success, is trying to see just how much faster I could grow if I had a little extra cash to invest. Having checked my characters today, I now have enough ISK freed up on this character (damn order limit ;_;) to throw another 500M at my alt. That alone might be all I actually need to get things going.

In all honesty, I put this loan request up less because I need the cash and more because I think it would be beneficial for me to have a loan on record in the event that sometime in the future I planned to try to setup larger loans or requests for investment. Considering how prevalent scamming is in this game, being able to give potential creditors/investors some kind of past proof that I am not one sounds like a good thing. :)

- Rei
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#6 - 2012-03-20 19:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Aina Sasaki wrote:
In all honesty, I put this loan request up less because I need the cash and more because I think it would be beneficial for me to have a loan on record in the event that sometime in the future I planned to try to setup larger loans or requests for investment. Considering how prevalent scamming is in this game, being able to give potential creditors/investors some kind of past proof that I am not one sounds like a good thing. :)


I can completely understand this. Getting your first public investment is a great way to get involved in the MD community. If you would like to follow through with this, I would definitely suggest trying to secure an audit to verify your trading capability. It will give investors some evidence of your competence at trading. The unfortunate drawback is that securing an audit these days is going to be extremely expensive if you are even able to find someone who is willing to put in the time for an audit that takes a very large amount of effort for relatively little compensation.

Andarius Trading Corp. | MD Borrowers and Trustees
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-20 21:17:33 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
I can completely understand this. Getting your first public investment is a great way to get involved in the MD community. If you would like to follow through with this, I would definitely suggest trying to secure an audit to verify your trading capability. It will give investors some evidence of your competence at trading. The unfortunate drawback is that securing a loan these days is going to be extremely expensive if you are even able to find someone who is willing to put in the time for an audit that takes a very large amount of effort for relatively little compensation.


Mmm... okay. How would I go about getting this audit thing done?

Also, what do you mean by "extremely expensive" to get a loan?

- Rei
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#8 - 2012-03-20 21:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Aina Sasaki wrote:
Also, what do you mean by "extremely expensive" to get a loan?


Typo. I meant to write extremely expensive to get an audit. The only person that I know who does audits anymore is Vaerah Vahrokha. He usually does audits for major projects, because the amount of time it takes is a serious commitment. So players trying to start major projects are more likely willing to pay the amount of ISK an audit is worth in terms of time. It is really unfortunate that there are no audit services for newer players to get started in MD these days.

(Sorry VV. I just sent another one your way. Shocked)

Andarius Trading Corp. | MD Borrowers and Trustees
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-03-21 03:30:46 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
Typo. I meant to write extremely expensive to get an audit. The only person that I know who does audits anymore is Vaerah Vahrokha. He usually does audits for major projects, because the amount of time it takes is a serious commitment. So players trying to start major projects are more likely willing to pay the amount of ISK an audit is worth in terms of time. It is really unfortunate that there are no audit services for newer players to get started in MD these days.

(Sorry VV. I just sent another one your way. Shocked)


How expensive are we talking about? If it's really quite a bit, I don't think I will bother. Setting up a loan simply for the sake of starting a reputation can wait if the initial pricetag is too high. x_x

- Rei
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#10 - 2012-03-21 04:04:01 UTC
Based on my experiences, the standard several years ago was 50 million ISK for individuals looking for their first bond of a billion or so. Unfortunately there are practically no auditors for that small market anymore, so if you want an audit, you would probably have to convince them by paying considerably more than that amount. Specific price negotiations of course are completely up to you and them.

I honestly wish I could help you out more. It really is a shame that there is not a strong group of auditors for individuals looking for their first bond.

My best advice to you if you really want this is to be persistent, but extremely personable. You can find an auditor if you really want to, but it is unfortunately not easy.

Andarius Trading Corp. | MD Borrowers and Trustees
Julia Rankin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-21 08:00:42 UTC
wall o text
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-21 09:28:53 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
Based on my experiences, the standard several years ago was 50 million ISK for individuals looking for their first bond of a billion or so. Unfortunately there are practically no auditors for that small market anymore, so if you want an audit, you would probably have to convince them by paying considerably more than that amount. Specific price negotiations of course are completely up to you and them.

I honestly wish I could help you out more. It really is a shame that there is not a strong group of auditors for individuals looking for their first bond.

My best advice to you if you really want this is to be persistent, but extremely personable. You can find an auditor if you really want to, but it is unfortunately not easy.


Normally, this is something I would totally go for because it would help make this (and other) loan requests I make go more smoothly. But if getting an audit is going to take a significant chunk out of my cash stock (and I am 2 days away from getting access to +5 implants on this character, as well as my trade alt unlocking the Tycoon skill), then it is something that I would rather get done at a later date when the fee for an audit would be relatively trivial for me.

Disappointing, but it is hardly the end of the world.

If being unwilling to pay a relatively expensive price for one of these audits makes this loan offer undesirable, then so be it. I can live without it.

- Rei
DoraTheExplora Taft
Hoover Inc.
Snuffed Out
#13 - 2012-03-22 00:11:40 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
Aina Sasaki wrote:
From a balance of 250M two weeks ago, I have since grown this to approximately 2.1B (neither number includes the value of owned ships, but does include buy/sell orders), with most coming from trade.


If I am doing my math correctly, that is an 740% increase in two weeks. Now, station trading has the ability to be extremely profitable, especially in the early stages, but when I started out trading with a lot of knowledge on exactly how it worked, I was able to pull about a 100%-150% increase in two weeks. Moreover, it sounds like, rather than trading margins, you are leaving up orders, which takes a lot less management but pulls in less profit than margin trading (which I did to make that 100%-150% increase).

Claims of those kinds of returns make me a bit hesitant. Moreover, assuming that you are able to keep up that growth for two more weeks, you would have 15.54 billion. If you actually do have an incredible good trading technique, I would just do what you are doing for another week and make an investment of 1 billion seem trivial.

You must know as well as anyone things like this do not necessarily scale. (I just want to say that to clarify for people) I still agree with you about this post.
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#14 - 2012-03-22 00:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
DoraTheExplora Taft wrote:
You must know as well as anyone things like this do not necessarily scale. (I just want to say that to clarify for people) I still agree with you about this post.


I knew someone would call me out on that. Obligatory. Big smile But yes, the point does still stand in regards to the claim of current returns being that high.

Andarius Trading Corp. | MD Borrowers and Trustees
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-03-23 02:48:39 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
Yeargh


I had a little chat with the auditor person that you mentioned. The price tag is kinda steep, but chances are it is something I will have to get done sometime anyway if I ever want to get people to actually believe that I am getting the kind of profit I have been rolling in. At best however, it's not going to even start for several days, and that's before factoring in whether or not I can stomach the cost after I buy 2 +5 implants and the Tycoon skillbook tomorrow.

Honestly, by the time that audit would go through, my personal factors will have changed enough that this loan deal itself will alter as well, with me increasing the ISK amount, extending its length, or possibly just completely scrapping it altogether. I'm going to wait and see how this upcoming weekend plays out before I make any decisions regarding that.

It's broke 2.7 now, by the way. :)

- Rei
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#16 - 2012-03-23 03:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Aina Sasaki wrote:
Honestly, by the time that audit would go through, my personal factors will have changed enough that this loan deal itself will alter as well, with me increasing the ISK amount, extending its length, or possibly just completely scrapping it altogether.


This is by no means complete, but this list might give you an idea of the average size of first time bonds. They usually fall between 500 million and 2 billion. Investors are usually wary of larger first time bond offers.

Aina Sasaki wrote:
I had a little chat with the auditor person that you mentioned. The price tag is kinda steep, but chances are it is something I will have to get done sometime anyway if I ever want to get people to actually believe that I am getting the kind of profit I have been rolling in.


I hope you are not offended by my pointing out the claims of large returns as something that might need to be verified. I wish you the best of luck with trading, and I hope you do decide to secure an audit and continue with your bond offer. = )

Andarius Trading Corp. | MD Borrowers and Trustees
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-03-23 04:59:21 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
I hope you are not offended by my pointing out the claims of large returns as something that might need to be verified. I wish you the best of luck with trading, and I hope you do decide to secure an audit and continue with your bond offer. = )


Offended? No. Quite the opposite actually. The fact that you have difficulty believing that I am managing to get the amount of profit I am, to me, means I am kicking some serious arse. :)

- Rei
Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-03-26 10:39:11 UTC
This loan request is now withdrawn. I no longer need any additional funds to support my station trading operations (and it is questionable if I ever really did >_>).

I say thanks to those who commented in this thread. I learned a thing or two about how this loan/auditing business works here, and that was valuable knowledge. The next time I roll around here to make some kind of offer (assuming I ever do), i'll be sure to make it more... enticing to would-be investors. Until then, take care. :)

*waves*

- Rei