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The Jump Clone Timer Needs to be reduced from 24h to 22h
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Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#61 - 2012-03-20 20:12:26 UTC
22 hours sounds good to me.

I'd prefer it if it was even shorter, but there's way too many folks who prefer painful choices in EvE to get that by the devs. If you aren't suffering somehow, you just aren't playing the game right.
Cpt Syrinx
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
#62 - 2012-03-20 20:42:30 UTC
Elzon1 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
That's the whole point: to reduce the usefulness of having those special clones. It's a balancing solution and as a bonus it adds a planning, prediction, and preparation element and it also adds for the odd combination of allowing for instant travel without completely trivialising long-distance travel

It's not a useless limitation — it's a limitation on usefulness, which is a very good purpose for it and it does it really well

…aside from the 24h+ forward creep that the current timer creates, rather than making it a once-a-day thing.


Right... that completely makes sense..

Lets say you go to work everyday on a bicycle, it takes you 2 hours to get there and back

Now lets say I create a vehicle that allows you to get there and back in less than 15 minutes

In order to "balance things out" the local government essentially put a large hill/mountain in the way

Now it takes 1 hour and 45 minutes to traverse the same distance in the new vehicle.

Lets say people make a little town/village on top of the mountain because people wanted to rest and talk a little. Businesses form on top of the hill/mountain

Now, let say a new individual comes into town. This individual sees the hill/mountain and questions the sanity of such a limitation.

He goes to the local townsfolk to make a suggestion. Local townsfolk, why not take full advantage of this new vehicle by removing the hill/mountain or better yet... make a tunnel through it so the original path can be used by the new vehicles

Arguments are made that the businesses on top of the hill/mountain will cease to exist. The newcomer says that its not his fault that they decided to construct businesses on top of the hill/mountain... adapt or die

"Adapt or die?", the townsfolk say. The newcomer says, oh sorry... I play EVE Online you see... Pirate

Townsfolk: Straight

/End of story

Sure the timer limitation came with the jump clone capability, but why keep it? And its not CCP's fault for people evolving strategies with the jump clone timer limitation.

I have personally been limited by this timer before in that I couldn't pvp and pve when I wanted to (I adapted). Removal of the timer will allow for greater utility of the jump clone system even if additional costs are added. ISK isn't really a limiting factor, time is.

Removal of timer could also open up new play style possibilities that weren't considered previously.


life is no game

eve is

also, this is a game about spaceships, lets not make the spaceships obsolete allright?
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-03-20 21:11:02 UTC
Cpt Syrinx wrote:
life is no game

eve is

also, this is a game about spaceships, lets not make the spaceships obsolete allright?


Hypothetical situation, not life.

Removing the timer does not make spaceships obsolete as it allows us to use them more in most cases.

Example: Removing the timer will allow someone to rat in between CTA's.

Before timer change: Emergency CTA everyone get over to the staging system right now. Can't, still got 12 hours to go on my timer and its 54 jumps to get to you guys... I probably won't make it.

After timer change: Emergency CTA everyone get over to the staging system right now. Give me 10 minutes, I have to dock up, jump clone, and use the bathroom.

Just trying to make the game more playable. Have your game and play it too.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2012-03-21 00:41:24 UTC
Natasha Alfie wrote:
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Oh dear.. he is back.



JC timers should be range based.

Universe - 24h
Regional - 12h
Constellation - 6h
Station (direct swap)

Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.

Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10


I have to +1 this idea, it should make sense that the further I jump the greater the cooldown on being able to jump again.


And being able to swap between clones adapted to a specific ships 30 times a day? I'm not sure of liking that idea.
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-03-21 01:18:23 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
And being able to swap between clones adapted to a specific ships 30 times a day? I'm not sure of liking that idea.


That actually sounds kind of fun.

I am the monkey... I can go anywhere...

Wait... I just killed you at the other end of the universe...

I'm back Twisted

Stalker...

You know it Cool
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#66 - 2012-03-21 01:24:48 UTC
I'd support adding a x5 skill that reduces the timer by 1/2 hr per level. But ya, nothing too extreme (unless it's a same-station clone swap, in which case I'd be fine with them eliminating the timer.) I'd also be ok with a 10M ISK sink per hour or part thereof you want to reduce your timer by.
JamesCLK
#67 - 2012-03-21 03:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: JamesCLK
Advanced Infomorph Psychology [rank 4]: 5% reduction in cooldown between clone jumps per level.
Last level takes ~19 days to train (not counting attributes).
At level 5 your timer is down to 18 hours, or 19h12m at level 4.

The reduction is enough to matter to those who need to clone jump often, and those who don't can either ignore it or just train it the first few levels. 18 hours is still a significant ammount of time and longer than the usual 16 hours people are awake for; however it means you can jump clone one afternoon and jump back the next morning.

Profit?

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#68 - 2012-03-21 04:39:47 UTC
Implement a new skill, something like "Infomorph Management" or so. Every skillpoint in it reduces cooldown for the next clone jump by 1 hour. Problem solved and something useful to train.

Yay 10 years! :D
ChuckNorris InSpace
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-03-21 05:35:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ChuckNorris InSpace
advanced infomorph psychology.
have it grant a significant % cooldown reduction bonus.
make it a rank 12-14 skill and suitably expensive say 120m or so.

speaking from experience, a major mitigating factor of emergent pvp scenarios is JC limitations.
if I was able to flip between clones every 5 hrs (maxed out) say, I would be far more likely to ship up and go take risks in null sec.

any complaints about people moving around too freely are clearly bs in light of the current medical/death clone mechanics.

many players who covet just one 'main' character (most likely to be high sec dwellers) are loathe to risk their +4/+5 sets in null. many more, like myself, don't care about 100m isk, but do care about possibly losing training time on long skills by being more or less required to run empty clones 24/7 due to constantly being in possible pod-death scenarios. ccp should know that pvp is often scheduled to an extent and more than one encounter a day for an active player is a highly realistic expectation for anyone in a pvp corp.

12-24 hrs is arbitrarily restrictive and, imo, counter to the ethos of eve: that is, through skill training you determine what you can do and how well, within a fixed framework.

if your design concern is that this might adversely impact on isk sunk in implants and cascade in to LP market implications then think about all the extra slave sets people would buy and how many additional clones people would pimp out and scatter around the place. not to mention the roi of giving people yet another 30 day plus 'essential' skill to train on all their pvp alts.

this would be top of my list of 'little things' if I gave a ****.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-03-21 05:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dez Affinity
I have no problem with reducing JC timer by up to 2 hours. It's not a big deal and will probably help people so...

Making it sub 12h though is a bad idea.
ChuckNorris InSpace
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-03-21 07:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ChuckNorris InSpace
Dez Affinity wrote:
I have no problem with reducing JC timer by up to 2 hours. It's not a big deal and will probably help people so...

Making it sub 12h though is a bad idea.


i'm wondering why you think so? surely its just another 'punishment' for pvpers to soak up along with the cost and learning curves, also being forced to train significantly slower over the course of their careers as well sucks ass. that or pay billions a month in implant replacement costs (which scrubs like me cant afford fo sure).

if I can pvp then return to a +5 clone and loose at most quarter -> half a day's training I'd be delighted with that. as opposed to not bothering or being pretty severely taxed on my losses.
Signal11th
#72 - 2012-03-21 09:48:10 UTC
For me anywhere from 18-22 hours would be fine. Would like to see a skill to shave some time off the JC timers.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Tivookz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-03-21 10:05:47 UTC
I completely agree with this.

Makes perfect sense and I dont know how many times I've been angry about this.
Junglistbeast
Perkone
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-03-21 10:18:03 UTC
People just need to plan thier time better.. there is no need to lower the timer. And doing so is just going to make it easier for large alliances to project thier power. Sure it's frustrating at times... but this isn't WOW it isn't supposed to be easy or all rainbows.

You PVE 57 jumps from your corp?? why? Too hard to PVE in null or low?
ChuckNorris InSpace
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-03-21 10:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ChuckNorris InSpace
Junglistbeast wrote:

You PVE 57 jumps from your corp?? why? Too hard to PVE in null or low?


I've never used a jump clone to actually move anywhere. I am deployed in a system, I have all my clones around the constellation with various implant sets in. Or did. After a while I stopped bothering with implants because getting podded every day made it pretty expensive to keep even a set of +3's in. JC'ing is not that useful in practical terms as it currently stands, because I still lose 24 hrs of training. So I stopped bothering ages ago and just fly around in a med clone most of the time.

am I the only person doing that? not sure tbh. but jump clones as a mode of transport? why? you can just death clone.

as someone who roams in null frequently in gangs, fleets etc. my only use for jumpclones are to keep a set of implants to hand, or anywhere really, for longer skill training during periods of semi inactivity. or for specific low/high grade gunnery/missile sets etc.

this kinda means for me, with my play style, I would really like a way to flip clones more frequently to stop missing out on months of training time each year due to flying around in an empty/disposable clone most of the time.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-03-21 11:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
Oh dear.. he is back.



JC timers should be range based.

Universe - 24h
Regional - 12h
Constellation - 6h
Station (direct swap)

Possibly with a skill to affect timers, shouldn't impact their use for travel but would allow people to try more clones.

Also Advanced Infomorph giving +1 JC per level brining the total up to 10


More like

Universe - 96h
Regional - 48h
Constellation - 2h
Station (direct swap)

Nerf force projection blob will diminish naturally.

If someone whines he has to do 3457839 jumps to get into the fight it his own fault for blueing everything around.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-03-21 11:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Tippia wrote:
IsTheOpOver wrote:
Yeah really.. if you are going to ask them to change it, make it 8 or 12 hrs .. not 22
Nah. 22 is a far more reasonable suggestion.

The problem with the current timer is that while it looks like it's a “once a day” timer, that 24 hour cooldown means you can only jump once every just-over-24 hours. It's a classic fence post error.

Reducing the timer to 22 hours, or even just 23 (hell, even 23h 55min), means that it goes from being a not-quite-every-24-hour thing to being a once-a-day thing.


What's so unreasonable about an 8 or 12 hour cool down?

reducing it to 22 or 23 hours sounds utterly pointless to me and wouldn't benefit as many people as an 8 hour cool down would.

Edit: actually i don't care for your opinion. The jump timer should be reduced, end of.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
N3oXr2ii
the united
#78 - 2012-03-21 11:24:52 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I like the idea of a 36 hour jump clone timer myself.


Uh, so when did you give masternerdguy your forum password?


No, this is the real me. Maybe I am masternerdguy (he'll deny it of course), but the main issue I have with jump clones is the complete trivialization of travel. Hell, we can set our medical clone to a station we have never been to, pod ourselves and appear at the target station instantaneously.

Logistics is too easy.

Fighting a war on two fronts? Simple: set the reinforcement timers to a few hours apart. Fight at one POS, then transfer to the other clone with its collection of titans in the hangar (cos dock able supercaps, y'know) and continue fighting at the other POS on the other side of the galaxy.

How does that make sense? It doesn't.

If there is to be any opportunity for smallholders, the ability for large alliances to project power needs to be severely hampered. Just because this is the way the game works now doesn't mean this is the right way for it to work. Titans used to be able to doomsday through cynos. That didn't make sense either, so it got fixed. It used to be possible to make battleships fly faster than interceptors. That didn't make sense, so it was stopped.

Where is the challenge in running a Solar Empire when moving your soldiers around is as simple as pointing a finger? Where is the opportunity to attack an exposed flank when flanks can become the front line in a matter of minutes.

Perhaps reduce the clone jump timer to 8h, but require infrastructure in place to perform the jump: something akin to fluid routers which the alliance must install to allow a station to be used for clone transfers of any kind. Medical stations might allow a medical clone to be installed, but for jump clones at least one fluid router must be installed. This provides yet another point of weakness, especially if such routers act as deadspace projectors, and can only be accessed by sub-battleship vessels.

NPC space will already have these installed. Now imagine if the NPC corp standing of 8.0+ was required to activate a jump clone installed at their stations.

Yeah, crazy idea. People would no doubt unsubscribe enmasse due to playing havoc with their play style.

Logistics is too easy. The universe is too small.



This really does make sense but lets not increase the timer any more 24 hours is engough



Undistinguished Gray Suit wrote:
Another option would be some sort of system that charges up like cap. If you clone jump once a day it's about 24 hours to recharge, but if you save up for a few days you can do 2 in a row.


this is a good idea but it would need a cap like a max of 2

also it would be nice if u could keep 2 clones n a station and jump between then at will or for isk

i hate waiting between slaves and crystals

 please don't take out your real life issues out on me not my fault if your fat ugly bullied divorced broke or  have a pimple thats big and red maybe your mom wants you out her basement or a jock has gave you a wedgie your flames only make me laff at your sadness your hidden tears are as juicy as the whiners i blob or the blobs i hide from

Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-03-21 13:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cass Lie
I also heavily agree. 22 hours sounds like a good balance. In a day and age when you have massive supercapital fleets able to cross the cluster in 5 minutes, shaving 2 hours off a jc timer will hardly change much in regards to force projection and it makes life much easier. I also can't count the number of times when I couldn't be bothered to log in due to a ticking jc timer.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#80 - 2012-03-21 13:42:33 UTC
Remove the JC timer and add an AUR fee each time you jump instead.

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