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Selfdestructing during combat: No killmail

Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2012-03-17 02:51:41 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Aqriue wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
it's impossible to kill a super fleet in under 2 minutes, you might think differently but you're wrong.

Actually, if you see a super fleet dieing in under 3 minutes assuming a discrepancy as the order is given and everyone activates it...you were doing something right. The thing is, they know they were losing and you want those killmails...so they denied them. Its the value that you want and its a "hah, screw you guys" from them which is just as much as "hah, we win so screw you guys...F*CK! They started SD" from you (but, at lead you don't have to drag out the battle) 1 to 1, you want something they thought they were getting but you counter it...and they now know the other thing you want.

That doesn't even make sense.

Aqriue wrote:
(stuff)

Something about hulks? What is it with you and hulks? You know I don't kill hulks, right? I'm mostly a care bear Lol

I think his only reasoning for any position he holds is "because Hulks." I don't think he really has any substantiated positions.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

StarFleetCommander
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#82 - 2012-03-17 21:54:16 UTC
BUMP
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#83 - 2012-03-17 22:22:10 UTC
Self destructing is a valid combat tactic and is perfectly balanced.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-03-18 15:20:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Something about hulks? What is it with you and hulks? You know I don't kill hulks, right? I'm mostly a care bear Lol

I think his only reasoning for any position he holds is "because Hulks." I don't think he really has any substantiated positions.[/quote]
Hulks are the suppository to soothe Butthurt Oops. Add a little lube and squeeze that square shapped block up your bum and you might want to take a few deep breathing exercises before you try. Lose a cap kill, go shoot 10 hulks.

Also, if you know the time limit to "Self Destruct" (you are firing with the intent to lose a ship you know will get vaporized by the backhand of God) of ganking a hulk in 15 seconds or less before CONCORD appears, that means you know how to kill it. That means, you are assuming you will win. Which why the hulk is such a particular favorite of being targeted, its zero risk and cheap kill.

Also, if you know the time limit of actual Self Destruct of a Carrier is 2 minutes, that would assume you are smart enough to counter the 2 minute limit the moment you first engage by bringing the necessary damage to break it in less then 119 seconds. You can't counter it, then you lose. It is 2 minutes for a reason, so you can try to kill it otherwise the guy would do it the instant you first fired on or at the last moment to further enrage you.

Then you can go back to banging out KMs with hulks. I couldn't care less if you shoot them, but I know that you will lose more sec status with it making your life miserable Twisted when you want to raise it.

Want to change SD? Change hulks so they don't die so easy as they do now and you can have an SD change, its litterly $50 USD for 3 months to train it to fly adequately only to be a paper thin target that dies in 15 seconds for the most boring profession that sucks up rocks. Want easier carrier kills then make hulks harder but not impossible to kill, fixes the risk balance on both ends.
Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-03-18 16:53:52 UTC
I wonder, why did selfdestruct feature enter the game in the first place? What was the purpouse, the role?
Maybe so pilots finding themselfs somewhere deep in 0.0 could get back home without doing 50 jumps?

I honestly dont know.

What is it used fore today?
One thing is shure that denying the enemy km is one of the reasons and Im not shure this was the intention when it was implimented tbh. If you cant afford to loose it dont fly it! If you cant afford to have negative hit on kb stats dont fly it!

I see 2 solutions, implimenting both would be nice tbh.

1# Selfdestruct can only be initiated at 100% shields (or >90%). This would allow anyone to selfdetruct if they wanted, unless they are being powned.

2# Selfdestruct voids inshurance, hell make criminal behaviour void inshurance as well while you are at it (Suicide ganking would still profitable).
Asudem
Asen of Asgard
#86 - 2012-03-18 17:15:05 UTC
Lol, ho wabout implementing a complete new SD command, called KAMIKAZE! Damage = [Ship mass] / 1000 * [Ship speed Speed] / 100.

So you can use ships in worst cases to crash into others for a massive instant damage. But you kill your own Pod in that action as well.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#87 - 2012-03-19 00:09:09 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Also, if you know the time limit to "Self Destruct" (you are firing with the intent to lose a ship you know will get vaporized by the backhand of God) of ganking a hulk in 15 seconds or less before CONCORD appears, that means you know how to kill it. That means, you are assuming you will win. Which why the hulk is such a particular favorite of being targeted, its zero risk and cheap kill.

(...)

Want to change SD? Change hulks so they don't die so easy as they do now and you can have an SD change, its litterly $50 USD for 3 months to train it to fly adequately only to be a paper thin target that dies in 15 seconds for the most boring profession that sucks up rocks. Want easier carrier kills then make hulks harder but not impossible to kill, fixes the risk balance on both ends.

To be honest Aqriue, I don't fly hulks. I also don't suicide gank them, and suicide ganking hulks is not in any way linked to SD timers. Buffing hulks doesn't fix the "risk balance" on both ends, because the two subjects are completely unrelated, and SD timers don't really have anything to do with risk anyway.

Anyway, just thought I'd post again to link this: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12775173

Pandemic Legion, ganking ~4 supers that didn't even have any real support (a few guardians), with 25+ supers of their own cannot kill them in <2 minutes. This is what I mean when I say the current mechanics are BS.

Fail got caught doing something very stupid, dropping supers+dreads for a POS bash with neuts in system, PL caught them and kicked their ass for it. Fail hide the fact that they messed up by self destructing the moment they realize they can't get out.

It's bad enough that people end up on their own side's KMs (Fail's killboard efficiency actually went up after that fight, lol), self destructing is just making an incredibly inaccurate system of recording kills/losses even more inaccurate. Not to mention how boring 2 minute fights are.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Icecar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-05-09 17:10:32 UTC
"Wahhh we want to ruin someone's day by destroying their hard earned ISK but when they do something to ruin my day that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"

Cry more, douchebags.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#89 - 2012-05-09 17:47:49 UTC
Icecar wrote:
"Wahhh we want to ruin someone's day by destroying their hard earned ISK but when they do something to ruin my day that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"

Cry more, douchebags.

Looks like someone got forced to SD their capital so decided to rage necro.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#90 - 2012-05-09 18:01:17 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Icecar wrote:
"Wahhh we want to ruin someone's day by destroying their hard earned ISK but when they do something to ruin my day that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"

Cry more, douchebags.

Looks like someone got forced to SD their capital so decided to rage necro.

Better necromancy that "post new thread".

At least he demonstrated sufficient competence to use search, so we can enjoy vintage whine.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-05-09 18:02:54 UTC
Icecar wrote:
"Wahhh we want to ruin someone's day by destroying their hard earned ISK but when they do something to ruin my day that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"

Cry more, douchebags.

Necro bump! Nice shot there, killing the already dead horse.

But seems I missed a 2 months old post from Simi, so let me finish.

Simi, you know how everyone says a hulk pilot needs to fit tank to prevent being ganked? That implys the hulk pilot needs to take precautions to prevent being ganked, not the hulk ship in question. The player needs to take the actions to win or they will lose, therefore if a hulk needs to not lose their ship by using their brain and being proactive to avoid causing it to explode then that would assume the guys who keep losing cap ship kills are failing to use their brain to adapt. You know, that adapt or die motto everyone likes to spout and brings to question why some dudes cannot adapt to bring enough DPS to crack a cap ship in 2 minutes but other dudes can crack a hulk in 15 seconds. You have a time limit, figure out how to make best use of it and win or stop complaining!

Its the players that are the problem, they cannot adapt to known mechancs (you have a time limit, this amount of tank, and how much DPS to crack it in that time limit) then whine how they keep losing (be it a hulk or cap ship kill) so why does CCP need to step in everytime? Yet, if CCP needs to step to fix a problem a player cannot adapt to everybody jumps in to support it (the cap SD), while at the same time the same guys not want the hulk to get a buff when the miners complain? We are all human and want to win, but losing hurts and the hulk is the easiest exploited kill. ****, hulk doesn't need a massive tank it just needs tweaks that let the dude who spent 4 months paying real world cash for the subscription and hours of grinding to get the isk not to get rolled by some dude who can just make a 3 day throw away destroyer alt (easiest thing is to prevent cargo rigs/expanders from working on a hulk kind of like how a combat cloak only works on certain ships, that then forces the pilot to not fit **** modules!).
Aleksander Erkkinen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-05-09 18:09:08 UTC
Thread necro bad! But since this is one the first page now I might as well ask:

I thought CCP said this was changing with inferno during fanfest? Granted, we don't actually know if they'll deliver on anything featured/mentioned there until it's in game, but didn't they at least address it? I seem to recall such.

P.S. someone asked ages ago why self destruct is in game. Go through a collapsing WH without a probe launcher and it will all become clear.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#93 - 2012-05-09 18:51:32 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Icecar wrote:
"Wahhh we want to ruin someone's day by destroying their hard earned ISK but when they do something to ruin my day that's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"

Cry more, douchebags.

Looks like someone got forced to SD their capital so decided to rage necro.

Better necromancy that "post new thread".

At least he demonstrated sufficient competence to use search, so we can enjoy vintage whine.

True, but to necro a thread you disagree with? :P seems counter-productive.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]