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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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you want to keep those new players CCP? Here's where to start.

Author
Kirell
Treasure Hunter Enterprises
#1 - 2012-03-16 22:09:26 UTC
I can speak from firsthand experience from getting new people into EVE. i've introduced over a dozen people to this game in the last 2 years. Today only 2 of them still play. EVERY single one of them has complained about the same thing.

Griefing/Scamming

Now as far as the scamming part goes, with the contract changes in the last while they've certainly given people the proper tools to ensure that the only way to get scammed at this point is to not be paying attention (or lack of understanding of the game)

but the high sec griefing has reached an new lows, and everytime null sec alliance shift a portion of thier playerbase figure "hey since my game has been screwed over by the other players I'm going to screw new players in EVE over"

First thing to do - ENFORCE permanent bans on exploiters. The most recent issue is people war deccing noobs in high sec, finding them with an alt that's out of corp, moving that alt beside the player and immediately joining the corp and attacking thier new wartarget WITHOUT A SESSION CHANGE. I've been hearing it from alot of people that this is happening and recourse is taking over a week if not longer. UNACCEPTABLE.

And let's face it NEW PLAYERS have no idea that THIS IS NOT ALLOWED. - Enforce those bans. Ban every account in that corp and every account associated with the players in that corp. Sure you're losing subscription. But you'll make up for it in the long run with new player retention.

Second - EVE is harsh. Sure that's what you intended. The learning Curve is brutal almost a right of passage for those that stick around. Everyone who's been around knows this. You need to give new players TIME to adjust to this harsh reality.

Give them a 3 month invulnerablity. If they are running missions - thier wrecks cannot be touched or looted by other players. Thier jetcans can't be opened/ looted by anyone BUT THEM. No more can flipping griefers ninja looters trying to force them to attack them only to come back later with a bigger ship and smack them around. None of that BS for the first 3 months.

Let's face it, if a new player is mining into a jetcan, in 3 months he's not going to be mining a whole hell of alot. maybe at the end of 3 months, but that only helps 1)the low end mineral market 2) helps that player build an income so he can afford those skillbooks and thus get more involved in the game.

High sec shouldn't be a "safe haven" for people that know the reality in this game. But it should be safe for those WHO DON'T KNOW.

changing those 2 things alone will drastically increase your new player retention rate, which in turn will keep this game alive. New shiny toys for the vet players are what keeps them around. But let's face it EVERYTIME a new game comes out those VET players are going to leave for a time to go try it out. If they don't like it they come back.

If they do like it well.... There's NOTHING you can do about that. The only way to keep EVE alive is keeping new players.

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
#2 - 2012-03-16 22:30:40 UTC
Don't we already have noob systems where griefing / scamming is not allowed?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Wardecs Without Borders
#3 - 2012-03-16 22:31:46 UTC
Kirell wrote:
Ban every account in that corp and every account associated with the players in that corp

I stopped reading here. So your penalty for one guy doing something is to ban dozens of people?

I'm all for harsh penalties, but you don't keep subscribers by punishing a group for the acts of an individual. To suggest that it would be effective is just idiotic.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-03-17 00:03:11 UTC
1 new player quits because he died. Ban 83 people in pvp corp. That should fix the problem alright.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-03-17 00:59:58 UTC
Yeah! I should be able to join goonwaffe/dreddit, kill a newbie and get thousands of accounts banned!


Are ANY of the things you listed actually exploits?

Three month invulnerability? Why? How, exactly, are people going to learn a thing about how eve works if they spend the first three months wrapped in cotton wool?

You're turning highsec into a 100% safe kiddie's playground. Stop it.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#6 - 2012-03-17 02:37:03 UTC
This comes up far too often by people who don't understand what Eve is about and who haven't thought it through all the way. The core issue with trying to baby people for x months and then put them into the real world is three-fold.

First off there's Malcanis' Law(1). Older players WILL exploit the system to no end, there's no question about it.

Second, it doesn't prepare them for what Eve actually is, it gives them a false sense of Eve as a whole. You can compare it to teaching someone to drive in a bumper car and then tossing them on a major highway near Washington DC (very un-fun traffic, for people not from the USA).

Third, the "If you give a mouse a cookie" syndrome. If you give them 3 months of invulnerability, they'll soon want 6 ... and then 12 ... and then a "you can't do anything to me flag" that they can turn on whenever.

It's been suggested a few times and it's just not a good idea and it would hurt Eve as a whole VERY badly.





(1) Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#7 - 2012-03-17 06:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ioci
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Kirell wrote:
Ban every account in that corp and every account associated with the players in that corp

I stopped reading here. So your penalty for one guy doing something is to ban dozens of people?

I'm all for harsh penalties, but you don't keep subscribers by punishing a group for the acts of an individual. To suggest that it would be effective is just idiotic.


I have to agree with this guy.

Why fight your corp when I can just join it, pop some noobs and get them all banned? Meta power to the enth degree.

While I don't agree with the authoritarians who claim to have veto on what "EVE is about" it seems CCP, who do have a veto on what EVE is about agree with those views that EVE is supposed to be a griefers paradise because they continue to look the other way. It didn't become quite so obvious just how prejudice CCP were to non combat proffs untill we saw them bring up the digital shield they have in place for Dust bunnies.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2012-03-17 06:01:58 UTC
Just ban all goonswarm accounts.

Problem solved.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

marVLs
#9 - 2012-03-17 08:52:25 UTC
Kirell wrote:
The most recent issue is people war deccing noobs in high sec, finding them with an alt that's out of corp, moving that alt beside the player and immediately joining the corp and attacking thier new wartarget WITHOUT A SESSION CHANGE. I've been hearing it from alot of people that this is happening and recourse is taking over a week if not longer. UNACCEPTABLE.


+1 or rather +10000000000000000000.......
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-03-17 12:33:58 UTC
Instead go spam the noob systems info on what the evil goonies are doing and keep the forums clean from **** suggestions.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-03-17 13:08:33 UTC
Kirell wrote:
So much ganking butthurt. Oops


This seems appropriate here.

If new players are quitting due to a gank, Eve is the wrong game for them, Hello Kitty Online is that way -------->
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-03-17 16:59:44 UTC
Kirell wrote:
i've introduced over a dozen people to this game in the last 2 years.


A whole DOZEN?!?!?! Wow, you're like... incredible!! OBVIOUSLY you're the only person qualified to comment on the new player experience, with THAT MANY people you've brought in!!

Oh, and as for the rest of it.. I'm sure I've read something more ********, I just can't think of when or what.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#13 - 2012-03-17 23:51:10 UTC
Its a very delicate situation, where CCP wants to keep old players who passed the right of passage, but also keep the new customers rolling in.

Permanently banning any one for griefing is going to more or less, destroy eve online.

Perhaps make the newb systems such where older players cannot enter, and new players will receive a warning before leaving a 1.0 system.

Little babysteps without ticking off every one in the process is what Im trying to say.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-03-17 23:58:35 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
Its a very delicate situation, where CCP wants to keep old players who passed the right of passage, but also keep the new customers rolling in.

Permanently banning any one for griefing is going to more or less, destroy eve online.

Perhaps make the newb systems such where older players cannot enter, and new players will receive a warning before leaving a 1.0 system.

Little babysteps without ticking off every one in the process is what Im trying to say.


Only acceptable if the agents, ores, and all other money making in those areas is beyond deplorable. Want to stay safe? Stay destitute then.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-18 00:16:11 UTC
lol
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-03-18 00:16:48 UTC
I introduced Feligast to this game 2 years ago or whatever and he stayed BECAUSE of the griefing and scamming (plus he's a glutton for punishment~~)