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UI Iteration isn't enough - We need to start from scratch
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Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-16 19:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
I really salute the guys at Team Avatar and their work on improving 'little things' on the UI.

But I don't believe it is anywhere near enough, and I think it's as effective as patching a ship up that's already sunk.

CCP are asking what we can do to encourage new players to join and to stay. Well I think one of the key factors to this would be by creating a vastly improved UI.

I like the changes to the market system, but there's SO much more that could be done to improve it. I can never understand why we need so many different pop-up windows to perform different tasks. Invention for example take a ridiculous amount of unnecessary clicking and windows to perform one single task, and you will find yourself repeating this task OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

The overview is another example of how poor the UI is. If I were a new player I would be utterly perplexed as to how to save settings for different tabs and what a bracket is meant to be. I still find it ludicrous that adding an object to the overview will add it to every tab rather then just the one selected.

I can only imagine is the amount of windows would be utterly daunting to a new player, and it's not like any of them have a simple help icon which would immediately take you to a help page to explain how to use them.

I really think CCP should really consider devoting some real resources to just starting again. The objective would be to.

1. Make a far more space efficient layout.
2. Reduce clicking substantially.
3. Reduce the amount of windows needs substantially, by making all tasks possible to complete in just one window rather then several pop-ups.
4. Make it far more intuitive. Again Invention is so laborious.
5. Improve scalability so that future expansions gel nicely with the current layout.
6. Simplify - Why does right clicking a BPC give you the option to invent, ME, or PE even though this isn't possible?
7. Make it far more informative - This doesn't have to mean more text, just make things more self-explanatory.
8. Be creative

Another problem I have with iteration is that it's just creating work-around to fix current problems. For instance adding the view market details button was a nice idea. But it's actually still slower than me right clicking one of my orders and selecting 'Modify', then immediately right-clicking again and selecting 'View Market details'. So that was a waste of time I'm afraid. The market window should have been completely redesigned, and in this instance one column should have had your orders and the second should have the market details Your order should be 'Highlighted' in the detail view and you should be able to modify it from the detail view. One window, instead of three!

TL:DR


Please seriously consider this CCP. I strongly believe that the UI puts off a lot of new players and probably makes quite a few old one's sick to death too. Give us a UI that belongs in the 21st century and one that this great game and great community truly deserve.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#2 - 2012-03-16 19:40:01 UTC
The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation? Lol

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-03-16 19:41:55 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation? Lol


That must have made target calling a hoot.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#4 - 2012-03-16 19:55:53 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation? Lol


That must have made target calling a hoot.


Well different times, and way smaller fleets. The type of engagements null gets these days would have crashed the servers so bad, back then, it would have left a glowing crater. I don't remember when exactly but it didn't take too long before we got some sort of overview, but it was a really messy and clunky interface. Nothing so sleek and adaptable as the overview is now.

My only gripes with EVE's interface now is that's almost unplayable if you don't have a big, widescreen monitor.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-16 19:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
Tobiaz wrote:
The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation? Lol


I bet you remember when all this was fields too. :P

I do have appreciation that CCP is trying to improve things, but I really do think it's a very token effort right now.

I also appreciate it's no small thing I'm asking for. But the UI makes Windows 95 look cutting edge! If Steve Jobs were alive today and he saw EVE's UI, it would kill him!

Too soon?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#6 - 2012-03-16 20:02:25 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
The UI is a sunken ship now? I agree there are some things that could do with a little less clicking, but missy... I remember a time where there even wasn't a overview. So how about a little bit of appreciation? Lol


Argumentum ad hominem.

OP is dead right. It needs a total overhaul. I wouldn't want to lead that team over at CCP but it doesn't change the fact that that's exactly what it needs, a complete overhaul.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#7 - 2012-03-16 20:39:09 UTC
Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#8 - 2012-03-16 20:52:57 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.


No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero.

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-16 20:58:36 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.


I'm not sure I understand. If this your argument for keeping a poor User Interface?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Solhild
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-03-16 21:01:27 UTC
I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine.

I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused! Shocked
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#11 - 2012-03-16 22:19:12 UTC
Solhild wrote:
I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine.

I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused! Shocked


Yeah, but re-naming modules was, arguably, un-necessary--but a full UI re-vamp? Different thing entirely.

(@CCP: Give us player-selectable/customisable velocity-vectors and Inertial/probability-based target-tracking already! Huge boost to solo/small-gang PvP, right there.)

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
ivar R'dhak
Deus est Mechanicus
#12 - 2012-03-16 22:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ivar R'dhak
Miss Whippy wrote:
Too soon?
Not soon enough. P

And agreed!
I also remember a time when all we had were red exclamation marks to figure out what horrific acts that specific entry in the overview wanted to inflict on us.

And quite frankly the current "sleek" overview isn´t that much better.
That thing should be just an information window instead of the main tactical tool we actually do our fighting in. Roll

When was the last time you checked your market when jumping into a hostile system?
Opened the PI screen after warping into a mission?

We don´t have an UI we have an OS!
But we need a space fighting UI instead of a "space OS" that only confuses the newbies with it´s ridiculous option overload and right-click orgy.

After returning 2 weeks ago the first thing I did in the new NEOCOM was dumping ALL those icons into a folder. Now I´m retraining myself to minimize the windows I currently use instead of outright closing them.

This first baby step of an UI that adapts to your current task is the right way. Problem is, it´s only a band aid.

The UI has to be redesigned with being a SPACE GAME UI foremost instead of an "OS in SPACE".
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-16 22:54:43 UTC
Solhild wrote:
I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine.

I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused! Shocked


Is there any source for this new UI?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
iOSJake
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-03-16 22:58:26 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
If Steve Jobs were alive today and he saw EVE's UI, it would kill him!

Too soon?

Yes
Rixiu
PonyTek
#15 - 2012-03-16 23:52:47 UTC
Solhild wrote:
I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine.

:awesome: is the word you're looking for.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-03-17 00:06:01 UTC
Rixiu wrote:
Solhild wrote:
I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine.

:awesome: is the word you're looking for.


If this is true, it's excellent/awesome/over the rainbow. But is this speculation or is it on Sisi, or what?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Menoeceus
#17 - 2012-03-17 06:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Menoeceus
Solhild wrote:
I'm pretty certain they've already designed a completely new and excellent UI scheme that would work just fine.

I'm also pretty certain they decided to tweak the current one to avoid annoying the established user base....just look at the whinging that renaming modules has caused! Shocked


Does anyone know this for a fact? I've seen nothing about this.What?
Docter Daniel Jackson
Fleetworks Training
#18 - 2012-03-17 07:16:18 UTC
This is some thing I have been talking to my friends about, they have all said this is why they cant get into eve is because the UI is too hard to get into. People are not asking to make the game easier but all we ask is that you give us the tools to play the game the way its meant to be, and not make so much crap in out faces that is not meant to be there at all.

The most smallest of things in eve could make it so much less painful to play rely, cleaning up the UI and removing things that dont not need to be there will help new and old players navigate the growing game so much more easier.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-03-17 16:38:28 UTC
Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:
This is some thing I have been talking to my friends about, they have all said this is why they cant get into eve is because the UI is too hard to get into. People are not asking to make the game easier but all we ask is that you give us the tools to play the game the way its meant to be, and not make so much crap in out faces that is not meant to be there at all.

The most smallest of things in eve could make it so much less painful to play rely, cleaning up the UI and removing things that dont not need to be there will help new and old players navigate the growing game so much more easier.


Case in point. I think the new UI in development is just rumor. Come on CCP, I'd love hear your thoughts on this.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-17 16:40:01 UTC
Famble wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.


No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero.


look at you

you think nobody bots in highsec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
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