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Humble Raving of an Insane T2 module producer...

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Lauren Hellfury
Full Pocket Aggro
#21 - 2012-03-15 19:55:21 UTC
Ships and modules are very different in terms of the numbers created from T2 BPOs compared with those from BPCs. The ships market as whole is served predominantly from BPOs and not through invention. Although you should bear in mind that regardless of any overall spread there will always be some items that fall in the opposing category.

This page contains an overview of the situation and is taken from officially released figures relating to T2. You don't need to worry about everything on there, the section titled "How do T2 BPOs affect things?" is the bit that you are looking for.


On a personal level I don't bother with T2 production because I don't think that T2 BPOs are a worthwhile investment of the Isk that I hold and invention doesn't provide enough extra profit over (and in many cases doesn't match the profit) that I obtain from basic T1 manufacturing to make up for the additional hassle of doing it.

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams

Devan Reale
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-03-15 20:03:24 UTC
With all due respect to the fine industrialists in this thread, there are two reasons for low profitability:
1) Bad market choice: some markets you just can't sell stuff in. For example, I never sell in Jita, and rarely sell in Amarr unless I *know* I can make a profit there. Don't be lazy, people: investigate the market choices for the product you want to sell, make sure there *IS* a market there, and do your thing. Cranking out T2 modules and just dumping them in Amarr or Jita because you can it stupid. Don't even start.
2) "You're doing it wrong": just because you CAN run an Invention job, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Maximize the profits with your skills, whatever are involved in start to finish of the product.

I'm not one of these types that goose-steps the "time is money" mantra, but I do value my product. If I'm making a profit that I'm comfortable with, irrespective of whether it's undercutting someone else or not, I'll sell for that price. If a market bottoms out, I don't create that product any more until the market rebounds or I find another market for it.

This isn't rocket science. Do what makes you a profit in your wallet by doing what works for you; ignore what the tired old "professionals" tell you.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-03-16 00:31:52 UTC
Raisa Mole wrote:


The thing is, 3.8 million per day per slot boils down to just 158K per hour per slot. There are a number of T1 products that make 8-10 times that much per hour per slot, and it's dreadfully easy to find T1 products that break at least 400 or 500k per slot per hour. They're much easier to produce, since you don't have to bother with invention, and most of them have extreme demand. I'm really beginning to think that my invention slots would be overall losers if I used them.


"Dreadfully Easy" you say to break 500K per hour on T1 items . . .

Ok please post ONE example of something that makes HALF that when selling bunk quantities to BUY ORDERS in jita over the last month.

-FM
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#24 - 2012-03-16 01:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Fango Mango wrote:
Raisa Mole wrote:


The thing is, 3.8 million per day per slot boils down to just 158K per hour per slot. There are a number of T1 products that make 8-10 times that much per hour per slot, and it's dreadfully easy to find T1 products that break at least 400 or 500k per slot per hour. They're much easier to produce, since you don't have to bother with invention, and most of them have extreme demand. I'm really beginning to think that my invention slots would be overall losers if I used them.


"Dreadfully Easy" you say to break 500K per hour on T1 items . . .

Ok please post ONE example of something that makes HALF that when selling bunk quantities to BUY ORDERS in jita over the last month.

-FM


Yes lets all hold hands on the wrong side of the market spread and wonder why we aren't making any profits. Poor criteria.

volume buy orders are only rarely made by procurers intending to use the item, most are made by people intending to reproc the item. Therefore there is NO competition to lift buy orders beyond reproc.

For the record, I doubt many objects will stand full time 24x7 manufacturing without you so annoying other market participants that the price marches down to 2% above reproc either. ie if you wanted to see those profits per slot, you would have to have far more than 10 prints being rotated through.

For the lines I run, I get about 3mil an object, and the objects take 2.5hrs to build.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-03-16 01:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Fango Mango
Tauranon wrote:


Yes lets all hold hands on the wrong side of the market spread and wonder why we aren't making any profits. Poor criteria.

volume buy orders are only rarely made by procurers intending to use the item, most are made by people intending to reproc the item. Therefore there is NO competition to lift buy orders beyond reproc.

For the record, I doubt many objects will stand full time 24x7 manufacturing without you so annoying other market participants that the price marches down to 2% above reproc either. ie if you wanted to see those profits per slot, you would have to have far more than 10 prints being rotated through.

For the lines I run, I get about 3mil an object, and the objects take 2.5hrs to build.


If you aren't buying from sell orders and selling to buy orders your profit is coming from trading, not from manufacturing.

My example quoted T2 profits buying materials from sell orders and selling products to buy orders.

That is the "value added" by the manufacturing process. Sure you can make a lot more isk buying your materials from buy orders and selling to sell orders. But then you are just trader. Why manufacture at all? Just buy the materials/finished product with buy orders and relist on the sell orders. Same profits without having to run manufacturing slots.

Why are so many people confused by this . . . it's just as stupid as the people who say minerals that I mine are free.

-FM
Zarific
Frekmacinations
#26 - 2012-03-16 02:28:49 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:


If you aren't buying from sell orders and selling to buy orders your profit is coming from trading, not from manufacturing.

My example quoted T2 profits buying materials from sell orders and selling products to buy orders.

That is the "value added" by the manufacturing process. Sure you can make a lot more isk buying your materials from buy orders and selling to sell orders. But then you are just trader. Why manufacture at all? Just buy the materials/finished product with buy orders and relist on the sell orders. Same profits without having to run manufacturing slots.

Why are so many people confused by this . . . it's just as stupid as the people who say minerals that I mine are free.

-FM


I agree somewhat with this but I'm not fully buying into everything you are trying to sell. I think you are hinting at what I'm explicitly pointing out.

Not everything entertains as large of a profit as buying components and re-selling the components. EX: If you can buy item A for 10 and sell for 20 and buy item B for 10 and sell for 20, (creating gross trade profit of 10 each or 20 total) but buy Item A and B and create item C and sell on "sell order" for 50, it isn't all trade profit. However you do the math 10 is "manufacture" profit. You could have 30 profit (20 trade, 10 manufacture) or just 10 manufacture. There is manufacturing profit factored in there. Is part of the profit from buying/selling? Sure, but part is because of the manufacturing. The manufacturing profit is simply smaller than most people recognize, if they are buying from buy orders and selling on sell orders, a lot of that "profit" is the trade spread.

Once you get out of the "trade" game of trying to manage buy/sell orders to create profits, it gets far more challenging to find profitable items to manufacture for good Isk/hr.

Zar
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#27 - 2012-03-16 03:42:43 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
Tauranon wrote:


Yes lets all hold hands on the wrong side of the market spread and wonder why we aren't making any profits. Poor criteria.

volume buy orders are only rarely made by procurers intending to use the item, most are made by people intending to reproc the item. Therefore there is NO competition to lift buy orders beyond reproc.

For the record, I doubt many objects will stand full time 24x7 manufacturing without you so annoying other market participants that the price marches down to 2% above reproc either. ie if you wanted to see those profits per slot, you would have to have far more than 10 prints being rotated through.

For the lines I run, I get about 3mil an object, and the objects take 2.5hrs to build.


If you aren't buying from sell orders and selling to buy orders your profit is coming from trading, not from manufacturing.

My example quoted T2 profits buying materials from sell orders and selling products to buy orders.

That is the "value added" by the manufacturing process. Sure you can make a lot more isk buying your materials from buy orders and selling to sell orders. But then you are just trader. Why manufacture at all? Just buy the materials/finished product with buy orders and relist on the sell orders. Same profits without having to run manufacturing slots.

Why are so many people confused by this . . . it's just as stupid as the people who say minerals that I mine are free.

-FM


No. Its stupid to not recognise that manufactured goods have WIDER SPREADS than minerals. Its also stupid to not go and try trade those items, where you will come to the crushing reality that no manufacturers are selling to your buy orders for many of those items - ie the BP and the line are required for volume entrance to many particular markets.
Taedrin
Virtues Corporation
#28 - 2012-03-16 06:05:15 UTC
Aunannata Utonda wrote:

To offset the lousy trade hub margins I cannot stress enough the necessity of buying materials via buy orders and selling your products at places other than the competitive trade hubs. The latter is not always easy to do depending on how far you've overstretched, but consider it a form of passive income.


I'm sorry to say, but if you have to buy inputs from buy orders, then you aren't profiting from manufacturing - you are profiting from trading. In fact if you DON'T make profit from manufacturing by buying from sell orders, then you would be better off not manufacturing that item at all, and instead station trading the input materials.
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
#29 - 2012-03-16 07:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
... nevermind someone brought this up already so I'll just say that my T2 ship manufacturing is nice and profitable.... there, said it.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-03-16 09:41:32 UTC
Raisa Mole wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Um.... Probably increasing my market competition, but stealth bombers and most assault frigates make a decent enough profit. This is even more accurate if you sell near a nul sec border.

Additionally, t2 modules commonly lost in a fight are also profitable. Again, more so in fringe regions.


Honestly, just think about what ships, modules, and other items are commonly destroyed.


I didn't list this, but "selling in a different market" is also illusory profit.

Illustrative Example : It costs you 22 million on the nose to make a Manticore. They sell in Jita for 21.6 million, or you can sell them in a border or lowsec system for 25 million. Should you manufacture Manticores to sell in that lowsec system?

The answer is no, making the manticore is losing you .4 million. You should instead be buying that product from Jita and transporting it to lowsec to sell.

Selling in other markets is trade profit, it is NOT manufacturing profit. It's a less common mistake, since most manufacturers don't even like messing with the hub markets, let alone maintaining sell orders in border systems, but it does get made.

What the hell? Making Manticores and selling them for 21.6 mil isn't losing ISK, if you mine the moon-materials yourself or buy them at rediculously low prices. Then you earn ISK, not lose any.

Also, your argument is highly flawed. If you can build a Manticore for 22 million ISK, and the Jita-price is 21.6 mil, and you sell them in low-sec/null-sec border systems for 25mil, that's 3 mil profit. not 0.4 mil loss. If you instead buy the Manticores (which assumes you have the monetary resources to pull it off), and haul them to a low-sec/null-sec border system and sell them there, sure you'll be making 0.4 mil more per Manticore, but you're going to need a Freighter to get them safely out of Jita without being suicide-ganked upon undocking. And as we all know, Freighters accelerate and align very slowly, which means you'll lose a lot of time hauling the ships, time you could've spent running missions or mining more ore, so you could earn more ISK. If you could get just 0.4 million times the number of manticores in your Freighter, in the time it takes your Freighter to get to the system you're selling them in, you'll be better off building the ships in the system you're selling in and running missions or mining while the ships are in production.

In the end, hauling them out of Jita just to sell them somewhere else for a higher price is not profitable. And let's be honest, there are better trade-hubs than Jita.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.

Zesoft
Red Monolith.
#31 - 2012-03-16 18:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zesoft
Taedrin wrote:
Aunannata Utonda wrote:

To offset the lousy trade hub margins I cannot stress enough the necessity of buying materials via buy orders and selling your products at places other than the competitive trade hubs. The latter is not always easy to do depending on how far you've overstretched, but consider it a form of passive income.


I'm sorry to say, but if you have to buy inputs from buy orders, then you aren't profiting from manufacturing - you are profiting from trading. In fact if you DON'T make profit from manufacturing by buying from sell orders, then you would be better off not manufacturing that item at all, and instead station trading the input materials.


You use buy orders when your manufacturing slots are busy. There's no reason to buy from sell orders when you can't put those materials into the manufacturing lines immediately.

Since you ideally want Mfg slots running all the time, you're going to be buying with buy orders except in lapses of production.

If you don't have buy orders running all the time, and it comes time to start more Mfg lines, you are subject to the market prices at that moment, which gives you the least amount of control over what you pay for your materials. The result of that is that you are more often switching what you have to produce to maintain a profit.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-03-16 20:29:47 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
Raisa Mole wrote:


The thing is, 3.8 million per day per slot boils down to just 158K per hour per slot. There are a number of T1 products that make 8-10 times that much per hour per slot, and it's dreadfully easy to find T1 products that break at least 400 or 500k per slot per hour. They're much easier to produce, since you don't have to bother with invention, and most of them have extreme demand. I'm really beginning to think that my invention slots would be overall losers if I used them.


"Dreadfully Easy" you say to break 500K per hour on T1 items . . .

Ok please post ONE example of something that makes HALF that when selling bunk quantities to BUY ORDERS in jita over the last month.

-FM


Customs Office Gantries. (Or at least they do off and on. That market is saturated atm.)
degini
Yo-Yodine Propulsion Systems
#33 - 2012-03-16 20:43:46 UTC
If you sell to buy orders you are doing it wrong, and no wonder profits are bad for you. It may be trade profit but it is trade profit in YOUR pocket, not someone else's.

In regards to buy vs manufacture of components:

If the ship is only profitable if you build the components yourself, then yes, its trade profit and you shouldn't be making the items.

However, if the ship is still profitable even if you buy the mats, that trade profit from building the mats instead, which is technically trade profit, can better be called vertical integration, and is valid in your profit calculations. That is profit in your pocket, not a trader's.

You should be doing the calculations assuming you buy EVERYTHING. If it is profitable, make it. Any extra "trade profit" you squeak in via vertical integration is just gravy.

Just don't use it to turn a non-profit item into profitable. I'll find you.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-16 23:18:54 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
Fango Mango wrote:
Raisa Mole wrote:


The thing is, 3.8 million per day per slot boils down to just 158K per hour per slot. There are a number of T1 products that make 8-10 times that much per hour per slot, and it's dreadfully easy to find T1 products that break at least 400 or 500k per slot per hour. They're much easier to produce, since you don't have to bother with invention, and most of them have extreme demand. I'm really beginning to think that my invention slots would be overall losers if I used them.


"Dreadfully Easy" you say to break 500K per hour on T1 items . . .

Ok please post ONE example of something that makes HALF that when selling bunk quantities to BUY ORDERS in jita over the last month.

-FM


Customs Office Gantries. (Or at least they do off and on. That market is saturated atm.)


2 points . . .

#1
I don't know why you consider Customs Office Gantries to be "T1"
a) They require a faction single run blueprint to produce
b) They require construction parts and PI items making them more like faction items or T2 items to manufacture
c) They require Industry 5 like faction/T2 construction

#2
The market is already saturated less than 4 months after they were released and will be saturated till the end of eve just like all T1 items.


-FM
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-03-16 23:29:25 UTC
degini wrote:
If you sell to buy orders you are doing it wrong, and no wonder profits are bad for you. It may be trade profit but it is trade profit in YOUR pocket, not someone else's.


ugh . . .
1) learn to read
2) learn to think

I never said to only sell to buy orders. I said to calculate the MANUFACTURING PROFIT you had to use sell orders pricing for components and buy order prices for the finished goods. Every ISK above buy orders price that you sell for is TRADE PROFIT, not MANUFACTURING PROFIT.

I also never said don't take advantage of the trade profit in an item. Don't be an idiot and think you make 1 Million/ISK an hour with your manufacturing slots, when you are losing money on your manufacturing and making all your ISK(+ covering your manufacturing losses) with your trading.

Pro Tip : Trade the goods that are profitable to trade and manufacture the goods that are profitable to manufacture.

-FM
Taedrin
Virtues Corporation
#36 - 2012-03-17 00:23:53 UTC
Zesoft wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
Aunannata Utonda wrote:

To offset the lousy trade hub margins I cannot stress enough the necessity of buying materials via buy orders and selling your products at places other than the competitive trade hubs. The latter is not always easy to do depending on how far you've overstretched, but consider it a form of passive income.


I'm sorry to say, but if you have to buy inputs from buy orders, then you aren't profiting from manufacturing - you are profiting from trading. In fact if you DON'T make profit from manufacturing by buying from sell orders, then you would be better off not manufacturing that item at all, and instead station trading the input materials.


You use buy orders when your manufacturing slots are busy. There's no reason to buy from sell orders when you can't put those materials into the manufacturing lines immediately.

Since you ideally want Mfg slots running all the time, you're going to be buying with buy orders except in lapses of production.

If you don't have buy orders running all the time, and it comes time to start more Mfg lines, you are subject to the market prices at that moment, which gives you the least amount of control over what you pay for your materials. The result of that is that you are more often switching what you have to produce to maintain a profit.


You are correct - HOWEVER what I say is also still correct. If you buy from buy orders, then a significant part of your profit is coming from trading. And if manufacturing from sell orders ISN'T profitable, then manufacturing itself is a waste of time - the item you are manufacturing is worth less than the inputs! This is similar to the whole "minerals I mine are free" phenomenon that people complain about - the time you spent managing buy orders is NOT free - it has an associated opportunity cost.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#37 - 2012-03-17 01:21:45 UTC
Aunannata Utonda wrote:
I apologize that the rant easily dwarfs the advice, but this is the sad state of t2 module affairs. Our hands are tied to a sinking ship and instead of cutting each other free we tend to climb over one another.

Off the top of my head I can think of two T2 modules that I've been selling since I started building T2 stuff, which are still selling at a great volume and a great price.

One of those modules, I couldn't sell in Jita if my life depended upon it. However, for an unknown reason Rens customers are willing to pay me as much as 300% profit, and purchase them at a decent rate with only a few other competitors.

The other module I can pretty much sell in Jita as many as I can manufacture. Typically making about 75m/day profit, so about 2.25b/month. This is with only one character that can build T2.

Chances are the problem is not "the system" nor the market if you are not making similar earnings.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-03-17 03:16:28 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Aunannata Utonda wrote:
I apologize that the rant easily dwarfs the advice, but this is the sad state of t2 module affairs. Our hands are tied to a sinking ship and instead of cutting each other free we tend to climb over one another.

Off the top of my head I can think of two T2 modules that I've been selling since I started building T2 stuff, which are still selling at a great volume and a great price.

One of those modules, I couldn't sell in Jita if my life depended upon it. However, for an unknown reason Rens customers are willing to pay me as much as 300% profit, and purchase them at a decent rate with only a few other competitors.

The other module I can pretty much sell in Jita as many as I can manufacture. Typically making about 75m/day profit, so about 2.25b/month. This is with only one character that can build T2.

Chances are the problem is not "the system" nor the market if you are not making similar earnings.


A great example of someone who just doesn't get it . . .

For the item that you sell in Rens . . .
You are a trader that happens to like using the manufacturing mini-game to limit your potential earnings.
Why not just buy from the Jita and sell in Rens if that is where all the profit comes from? Then you aren't wasting your manufacturing slots producing something that isn't profitable to manufacture.

-FM
Raisa Mole
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-03-17 12:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Raisa Mole
Fango Mango wrote:
Tauranon wrote:


Yes lets all hold hands on the wrong side of the market spread and wonder why we aren't making any profits. Poor criteria.

volume buy orders are only rarely made by procurers intending to use the item, most are made by people intending to reproc the item. Therefore there is NO competition to lift buy orders beyond reproc.

For the record, I doubt many objects will stand full time 24x7 manufacturing without you so annoying other market participants that the price marches down to 2% above reproc either. ie if you wanted to see those profits per slot, you would have to have far more than 10 prints being rotated through.

For the lines I run, I get about 3mil an object, and the objects take 2.5hrs to build.


If you aren't buying from sell orders and selling to buy orders your profit is coming from trading, not from manufacturing.

My example quoted T2 profits buying materials from sell orders and selling products to buy orders.

That is the "value added" by the manufacturing process. Sure you can make a lot more isk buying your materials from buy orders and selling to sell orders. But then you are just trader. Why manufacture at all? Just buy the materials/finished product with buy orders and relist on the sell orders. Same profits without having to run manufacturing slots.

Why are so many people confused by this . . . it's just as stupid as the people who say minerals that I mine are free.

-FM


That is incorrect. Trade profit buys you the spread, aka buying from buy orders and selling to sell orders. You should always be buying from sell orders and selling to the same type of order for manufacturing, this means you are getting no benefit of the spread, thus it's not trade profit. Your example is incorrect, there is no product in the universe where you can buy it from a sell order and then sell it to a sell order and make a profit (well, unless the market spikes).

Buying from sell orders and selling to buy orders is LOSING you the spread. Don't get me wrong, I see why you do it, it's a LOT faster than maintaining sell order, and often can make you more profit anyway if your cycles are quick and the spread isn't big.

Always buy/sell to the same type of order to get the manufacturing profit.

Edit : To be clear, I would never manufacture anything with such a thin profit margin that I'd lose money if I dumped it to buy orders, I always retain that option if I don't want to spend the time putting them up to sell orders. So really, it's no skin off my nose if you want to call some of my profit trade and some of it manufacturing. I think you're wrong, but we're just using two different definitions and criteria to reach the same end conclusion anyway, so in a real sense it doesn't matter.
Raisa Mole
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-03-17 12:09:10 UTC
Plaude Pollard wrote:
Raisa Mole wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Um.... Probably increasing my market competition, but stealth bombers and most assault frigates make a decent enough profit. This is even more accurate if you sell near a nul sec border.

Additionally, t2 modules commonly lost in a fight are also profitable. Again, more so in fringe regions.


Honestly, just think about what ships, modules, and other items are commonly destroyed.


I didn't list this, but "selling in a different market" is also illusory profit.

Illustrative Example : It costs you 22 million on the nose to make a Manticore. They sell in Jita for 21.6 million, or you can sell them in a border or lowsec system for 25 million. Should you manufacture Manticores to sell in that lowsec system?

The answer is no, making the manticore is losing you .4 million. You should instead be buying that product from Jita and transporting it to lowsec to sell.

Selling in other markets is trade profit, it is NOT manufacturing profit. It's a less common mistake, since most manufacturers don't even like messing with the hub markets, let alone maintaining sell orders in border systems, but it does get made.

What the hell? Making Manticores and selling them for 21.6 mil isn't losing ISK, if you mine the moon-materials yourself or buy them at rediculously low prices. Then you earn ISK, not lose any.

Also, your argument is highly flawed. If you can build a Manticore for 22 million ISK, and the Jita-price is 21.6 mil, and you sell them in low-sec/null-sec border systems for 25mil, that's 3 mil profit. not 0.4 mil loss. If you instead buy the Manticores (which assumes you have the monetary resources to pull it off), and haul them to a low-sec/null-sec border system and sell them there, sure you'll be making 0.4 mil more per Manticore, but you're going to need a Freighter to get them safely out of Jita without being suicide-ganked upon undocking. And as we all know, Freighters accelerate and align very slowly, which means you'll lose a lot of time hauling the ships, time you could've spent running missions or mining more ore, so you could earn more ISK. If you could get just 0.4 million times the number of manticores in your Freighter, in the time it takes your Freighter to get to the system you're selling them in, you'll be better off building the ships in the system you're selling in and running missions or mining while the ships are in production.

In the end, hauling them out of Jita just to sell them somewhere else for a higher price is not profitable. And let's be honest, there are better trade-hubs than Jita.


Wow, this is so wrong it's either got to be a troll, or I hope that you don't actually manufacture, since you're part of the problem. The entire first part is based on a "stuff I mine is free so I can sell it at whatever price I want" mindset, which has been repeatedly pointed out as one of the prime reasons a lot of T2 is unprofitable (T1 too).

As for the rest, manticores are not big, you can fit a number of them in a DST or blockade runner, and frankly if you're transporting more than a small mass to Lowsec/0.0 to sell, you're not moving it by gates, you're jumping it. Which is a cost, but not a particularly large one, especially if you use a jump freighter.
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