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Goonswarm supporting RTM operations

Author
Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-15 15:35:39 UTC
What's your point OP? Am I supposed to be outraged? I think we all know the major alliances quietly support RMT, botting, and other such endeavours to fund what's considered the fun part of EVE by their membership. That's PVP. Sure. CCP could fix so many of the problems with their game if they really cracked down on botting and got rid of multi-boxing. It's not going to happen though because they would lose too much income per month and likely couldn't keep EVE a'float for us to play that way. Game is what it is. Deal with it bro.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#22 - 2012-03-15 22:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lapine Davion
@OP If you have any evidence of said RTMing, or RMTing, that you submit it at once to CCP. Whining about it here on the forums is basically you just crying wolf.

edit: I don't think that CCP will be as concerned about Goonswarm trying to Return to Manufacturer.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#23 - 2012-03-15 22:48:31 UTC
Relativistic Teller Machine.

Because it warps faster than light.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Aggressive Nutmeg
#24 - 2012-03-15 23:04:31 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
...everyone knows Negative campaining only works in America as only Middle America is dumb enough to believe it.

America has different shades of dumb?

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.

Sloppy Podfarts
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-03-15 23:20:45 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
RTM = Red Trains Mummy?


Cry
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-03-15 23:25:08 UTC
Kai Tel wrote:
What's your point OP? Am I supposed to be outraged? I think we all know the major alliances quietly support RMT, botting, and other such endeavours to fund what's considered the fun part of EVE by their membership. That's PVP. Sure. CCP could fix so many of the problems with their game if they really cracked down on botting and got rid of multi-boxing. It's not going to happen though because they would lose too much income per month and likely couldn't keep EVE a'float for us to play that way. Game is what it is. Deal with it bro.


2000 bot accounts were never banned nope

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2012-03-15 23:27:12 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I don't quite follow your "it's your duty to play GM" argument by the way - if you feel annoyed by bots you can report them to CCP and no alliance policy can stop you from doing it (in fact unless you're a dramawhore nobody but you and CCP will ever know about it). It's up to CCP to determine whether your suspicions are correct based on their various detection methods and hand out bans as necessary.
Running around to shoot people that might be bots does not make a big practical difference in the fight against bots but carries the potential for a lot of diplomatic conflicts and immense drama in case of false positives.


this is correct, people do not pay for this game to go around playing CCP's cop

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-03-16 00:05:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
Kai Tel wrote:
What's your point OP? Am I supposed to be outraged? I think we all know the major alliances quietly support RMT, botting, and other such endeavours to fund what's considered the fun part of EVE by their membership. That's PVP. Sure. CCP could fix so many of the problems with their game if they really cracked down on botting and got rid of multi-boxing. It's not going to happen though because they would lose too much income per month and likely couldn't keep EVE a'float for us to play that way. Game is what it is. Deal with it bro.


2000 bot accounts were never banned nope


Nope. Didn’t happen. CCP didn’t achieve that number per their own dev blog. More temp bans and it's still not and nowhere near enough. Its' their game, they control it, and can put an end to whatever they want to through the code. They did just enough to look good without really changing anything. They dented a few bot ops and a Goon dev might have been too selective in his alliance targeting. Typical stuff in Eve but at least the corruption is honest.
Endeavour Starfleet
#29 - 2012-03-16 00:27:54 UTC
Andski wrote:
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I don't quite follow your "it's your duty to play GM" argument by the way - if you feel annoyed by bots you can report them to CCP and no alliance policy can stop you from doing it (in fact unless you're a dramawhore nobody but you and CCP will ever know about it). It's up to CCP to determine whether your suspicions are correct based on their various detection methods and hand out bans as necessary.
Running around to shoot people that might be bots does not make a big practical difference in the fight against bots but carries the potential for a lot of diplomatic conflicts and immense drama in case of false positives.


this is correct, people do not pay for this game to go around playing CCP's cop


I can understand not shooting blue bots (You cant be 100 percent sure I guess) Yet you are not saying you actively discourage bot reporting are you?

Let me put it in another way.

Scn A) Goons just say don't shoot blues. You personally don't report bots because you feel CCP should autodetect them or something? Which is a personal choice not an alliance policy.

Scn B) The rumor that Goons actively discourage members from reporting blue bot activities. Or say that Goon bots help goons so they should not be reported.

Which one is more correct?
Taedrin
Virtues Corporation
#30 - 2012-03-16 00:37:00 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Andski wrote:
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I don't quite follow your "it's your duty to play GM" argument by the way - if you feel annoyed by bots you can report them to CCP and no alliance policy can stop you from doing it (in fact unless you're a dramawhore nobody but you and CCP will ever know about it). It's up to CCP to determine whether your suspicions are correct based on their various detection methods and hand out bans as necessary.
Running around to shoot people that might be bots does not make a big practical difference in the fight against bots but carries the potential for a lot of diplomatic conflicts and immense drama in case of false positives.


this is correct, people do not pay for this game to go around playing CCP's cop


I can understand not shooting blue bots (You cant be 100 percent sure I guess) Yet you are not saying you actively discourage bot reporting are you?

Let me put it in another way.

Scn A) Goons just say don't shoot blues. You personally don't report bots because you feel CCP should autodetect them or something? Which is a personal choice not an alliance policy.

Scn B) The rumor that Goons actively discourage members from reporting blue bot activities. Or say that Goon bots help goons so they should not be reported.

Which one is more correct?


If Scn B) is correct, then nobody from goonswarm is going to confirm it. Despite the Goon ethos, I wouldn't believe Scn B) unless there were leaked forums which confirmed it. And let's be honest, it isn't THAT difficult to get into Goonswarm. If there really was an official rule somewhere, a spy would have done a forum dump and put it out into the public for all to see.
SpaceSquirrels
#31 - 2012-03-16 02:51:12 UTC
Ignoring it and supporting it aren't synonymous. Wasn't there a thread awhile ago stating their policy was to not narc anyone out? It was CCP's job to deal with it...

I'm not saying it's right, but how often do you narc out a friend in real life... now this is a game so even less incentive to do so. Lets face it more people than Goons in this game ignore bots. Whats the difference between a guy in high sec ignoring it, and a guy in null doing the same?

Once again not condoning it rather stating it is what it is.

Endeavour Starfleet
#32 - 2012-03-16 03:18:34 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
Ignoring it and supporting it aren't synonymous. Wasn't there a thread awhile ago stating their policy was to not narc anyone out? It was CCP's job to deal with it...

I'm not saying it's right, but how often do you narc out a friend in real life... now this is a game so even less incentive to do so. Lets face it more people than Goons in this game ignore bots. Whats the difference between a guy in high sec ignoring it, and a guy in null doing the same?

Once again not condoning it rather stating it is what it is.




Bots are unfair to other blues and harm the game for everyone. I have heard rumors of a "No report" policy but I want to hear it directly from them about the subject.

All I hope they do is if its painfully obvious someone is botting just report it. No need to bot hunt or take any real time to do it. Even if they are forced to act more human it will be better because if most bots have to do that it will really reduce bot output into the game.
Endeavour Starfleet
#33 - 2012-03-17 04:48:45 UTC
Goons. Can I get an answer please?
Holy One
Privat Party
#34 - 2012-03-17 05:20:36 UTC
this is absolute nonsense. you'll be telling me there aren't any new players in eve next. Roll

:)

Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#35 - 2012-03-17 06:22:56 UTC
paraphrasing The Mittani wrote:
It is policy to not report blues. However, since it is all anonymous there is nothing to stop someone from reporting another goon. If a person reports a blue and keeps their mouth shut about it, nothing will happen. If they go blabbing about it, they are asking for trouble.


CCP Sreegs is in charge of taking care of the bot problem. He gets paid for this. We would rather let him do his job than try and do it for him and take that money ourtof his pocket.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-03-17 06:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Goons. Can I get an answer please?

they already addressed that issue in an alliance update half a year ago:

http://www.evenews24.com/2011/09/28/endie-goonswarm-federation-alliance-update-september-28th/

section about Blue-On-Blue Violence

tl;dr "we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don’t **** other goons"


"omg they tell people not to report each other" : an unenforceable policy is just that - unenforceable. If you feel the compulsion to inform people how you just reported their characters then your main purpose is drama, not making eve a better place. Nobody can stop you from doing the part that matters (hitting the report button) but if you feel the need to go the extra mile to destabilize your own alliance (by provoking unnecessary conflict) then expect to be treated accordingly. I think that's a reasonable policy.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#37 - 2012-03-17 06:57:50 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
"omg they tell people not to report each other" : an unenforceable policy is just that - unenforceable. If you feel the compulsion to inform people how you just reported their characters then your main purpose is drama, not making eve a better place. Nobody can stop you from doing the part that matters (hitting the report button) but if you feel the need to go the extra mile to destabilize your own alliance (by provoking unnecessary conflict) then expect to be treated accordingly. I think that's a reasonable policy.

Pft, if they wanted drama they could come on here and post on an NPC alt. "GOONIES botting ISKIES"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Endeavour Starfleet
#38 - 2012-03-17 07:57:30 UTC
Again I do not think in game attacking a blue because you think he/she is botting is the solution. I only care about the reporting part.

Again what scn that I described above is correct goons? A or B?
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-03-17 09:23:15 UTC
Taihbea wrote:
Caldari Citizen20110707 wrote:
Goon Bot policy: Dont shoot

Goons are confirmed to be blue to biggest RTM alliance in eve; shadow of XXDEATHXX


It's always dark under a lamp and considering that CCP literally is cooperating (all those posts about goon working for CCP) with them then what do you expect? Information is the key and once you have a "loyal" insider you learn how to avoid things.
All thos hi sec what ever they do is just a smoke screen to get as much ISK as possible befoe the ultimate banhammer hits.
Look at all auction portals. Somebody selling 99 ******* plexes got to be in a large alliance.
And if you are quet about it you usually get a share.
**** all of them but what can you do? CCP sucks at many levels and they don't seem to care.


I think you forgot to take your seroquel and/or thorazine today.
Zagdul
Virtual Progression
#40 - 2012-03-17 09:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Andski wrote:
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I don't quite follow your "it's your duty to play GM" argument by the way - if you feel annoyed by bots you can report them to CCP and no alliance policy can stop you from doing it (in fact unless you're a dramawhore nobody but you and CCP will ever know about it). It's up to CCP to determine whether your suspicions are correct based on their various detection methods and hand out bans as necessary.
Running around to shoot people that might be bots does not make a big practical difference in the fight against bots but carries the potential for a lot of diplomatic conflicts and immense drama in case of false positives.


this is correct, people do not pay for this game to go around playing CCP's cop


I can understand not shooting blue bots (You cant be 100 percent sure I guess) Yet you are not saying you actively discourage bot reporting are you?

Let me put it in another way.

Scn A) Goons just say don't shoot blues. You personally don't report bots because you feel CCP should autodetect them or something? Which is a personal choice not an alliance policy.

Scn B) The rumor that Goons actively discourage members from reporting blue bot activities. Or say that Goon bots help goons so they should not be reported.

Which one is more correct?



I am against shooting a blue bot.

I do not posses, nor does anyone in my alliance, the tools to detect a bot. That is CCP's job.

A) We shoot blues all the time in Fatal Ascension, we've become quite known for it and encourage it. It keeps our friends on their toes (/troll). However, with bots, yes, it's CCP's job to detect them. Not the player's. I have no defined way to know for sure that the person I'm shooting is a bot or a really efficient ratter with blinders on.

B) MANY null sec alliances do not encourage reporting bots as we are brotherhoods in nullsec. We are groups of people who work together to accomplish goals. Those goals diminish when we start sending out witch hunts on our own pilots.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement