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Why inflation? - Because were experts at internet spaceships now.

Author
Ghoest
#21 - 2012-03-15 15:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghoest
Tippia wrote:

It's quite simple, really.

You have a bathtub full of water, and it's slowly overflowing because you left the tap on. Now, to improve things, you bring in the garden hose and let it loose in the bathtub as well, and omigosh, now it's really overflowing!

The question is: was the problem that the bathtub was already full, that you left the tap on, or that you made the excellent decision to add the hose as well?

No. It did not backfire — the argument is still that adding the hose at that point was a monumentally retarded idea, especially if the goal of the exercise was to just flush some water through that hose.



Pleasant analogy - but It doesnt really fit. Why?

Because EVE isnt one big tub. Its 1000s of little containers each with its own own guy controlling the spigot and drain.
Yes the Devs can change the water pressure - but if everyone closes the drain and opens the spigot you are going to flood.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2012-03-15 15:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ghoest wrote:
Pleasant analogy - but It doesnt really fit. Why?

Because EVE isnt one big tub. Its 1000s of little containers each with its own own guy controlling the spigot and drain.
Yes the Devs can change the water pressure - but if everyone closes the drain and opens the spigot you are going to flood.
…except that it's not the individual level that is interesting — it's the larger picture (the entire bath tub), and that the devs most certainly can control the spigots and drains (in fact, I'd say that the one thing they can't control is the size of the bath tub… well, not directly at least — they can accidentally knock it all over and put a huge volume-consuming dent in it like they did last spring and summer). The drains, in particular, are quite hard to avoid for the individual.

They've done it before; they can do it again; and in this particular instance, they did it in a less than clever way.
TuonelanOrja
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-03-15 20:15:29 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Inflation= Economics . a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency ( opposed to deflation).

Only that has been raised on long term is PLEX. Other products have gone up and down. Mostly changes on game mechanics causes product price changes.

I would say that in game prices deflate but plex inflate so what is actually happening if you do not use plex.

People have more isk to use so they can use it for out of game item as plex. In game item prices does not raise, because people are manufacturing those as cheap as they can and selling with small profits without adjusting prices to PLEX price changes.

Bad was once wrong, then I woke up..

Not a veteran, just bitter..

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-03-15 20:17:42 UTC
We have infinite supplies of minerals, missions, and other goodies with the only limit on collecting them being time. We have something that is almost but not quite a post scarcity economy. Thus everyone is rich :)

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#25 - 2012-03-15 20:45:38 UTC
Roh Voleto wrote:
Some people think that PLEX is the closest thing EVE has to gold, but in reality PLEX has a tangible value and is subject to use based market forces, rather than being being something only people with big noses and compulsive hoarding disorder care about.

The real "gold-standard" of EVE are bounty payouts, and what killing a single rat will buy you.

Based on this,I can say very certain: That NPC seeded skill books had the same price for the last two years. Cool


I don't think the 'rat-standard' works because the EVE-players have become increasingly able in vanquishing said rat. PLEX is a much better one because it has the commutable value of a month of playtime. The whole AUR exchange business probably pollutes it a bit, but the effect should be minimal due to the unpopularity of the Nexus Store.

As for the skillbooks, I doubt they really count. It'd be the same as products price-controlled by a government, so it no good indicator for inflation.

Minerals aren't very good either because their prices are influenced too much by external factors.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Ghoest
#26 - 2012-03-15 20:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghoest
Tippia wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
Pleasant analogy - but It doesnt really fit. Why?

Because EVE isnt one big tub. Its 1000s of little containers each with its own own guy controlling the spigot and drain.
Yes the Devs can change the water pressure - but if everyone closes the drain and opens the spigot you are going to flood.
…except that it's not the individual level that is interesting — it's the larger picture (the entire bath tub), and that the devs most certainly can control the spigots and drains (in fact, I'd say that the one thing they can't control is the size of the bath tub… well, not directly at least — they can accidentally knock it all over and put a huge volume-consuming dent in it like they did last spring and summer). The drains, in particular, are quite hard to avoid for the individual.

They've done it before; they can do it again; and in this particular instance, they did it in a less than clever way.


You have now failed at extending an analogy - that you embraced.

The whole point of this thread is that most of the individual parts change in the same direction you get new results. The individual results matter when they start being similar to one another.

The player bases psychology and competency has changed over time.


On a speculative side note perhaps Incarna and its aftermath are part of the reason for a change in psychology. I not going to try to figure mass psycology out.
But I know that personally I ended up playing the game differently over the last year than I did before with out really intending to. I play less but more efficiently. My net value went up while losses went to practically 0.
I am playing the game for free, I guess Im to disinterested to bother fighting anyone, but Im still earning some income for some irrational reason, probably hoping Ill want something eventually.

Im not suggesting other people are following my unplanned path and motivations, but we are all better at playing the game than we used to be so it stands to reason well all make more money.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#27 - 2012-03-15 20:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Mara Rinn wrote:
If you use PLEX as the gold standard, it is easy to see inflation. Minerals can not be a gold standard, since there is for all intents and purposes an infinite supply:


Rubbish. There is are some very real contraints on the supply of minerals, namely the rate at which they can be successfully harvested. There are also plenty of other bottlenecks, like how many production slots are available, how efficiently minerals are converted into goods, etc.

And finally this "infinite supply" you misname is also balanced by an inappropriately named "infinite demand", since theoretically every single ship in EVE can be destroyed.
Nub Sauce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-03-15 23:38:03 UTC
Considering that the creation of isk in the economy (faucets) was already balanced to the point of being only slightly faster than the isk was being drained out via taxes, buying clones, ect... adding about 25% more creation rate via incursions was a terribly bad idea by itself. On top of that, they are too low risk for the reward. They should be toned down regardless of inflation rates.

The upside, though, is that it's isk generation that can't be automated by macrotard bots all the live long day. This, I am in favor of. Now, if they were to decrease the rate at which isk could be generated via bot-able activities in an equal magnitude of incursions isk creation rate then we'd have a great shift of income from botters to players who aren't cheating. This would be great, though only a single step in the right direction. The botters would likely just start up more mining bots - but at least those aren't pumping isk into the economy.
Serene Repose
#29 - 2012-03-15 23:53:32 UTC
There is a question as to whether inflation in this economy is a significant factor. I suggest a good yardstick might be progressing a n00b through the tutorials, the succession of ships up to the BC class and level III mission running. Is there a significant increase in the time it takes from day one to a meta 3 equipped BC? If so, there's two measures; prices and income. If the prices in relation to income are significantly out of synch, then getting to the meta 3 BC class from day one will be a good overall measure, as most of the purchases involved are within a narrow line of must have items from skillbooks to mods.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

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