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Dear Balance Team
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Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0
CapnBrannigan Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 0	#1 - 2011-09-21 00:40:28 UTC I have always wondered. Why is the scorpion the only Tech 1 non-Faction or Pirate Battle ship that has Ewar bonuses. Doesn't seem balanced, yea force the other races to invest into very expensive faction/pirate BS just so they can get their Logistics filled in the BS role... Interesting.. Possible good explanations?

Gypsio III

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,264

#2 - 2011-09-21 13:46:19 UTC

Because powerful electronics is a Caldari racial theme - high CPU, lots of medslots, high sensor strength, high targeting range - just as good mobility is a Minmatar theme, and Gallente have, erm... let's leave it there.

This is why electronic warfare isn't equal across the races. Minmatar, in terms of electronics, are the opposite of Caldari, and hence have arguably the weakest ewar.

Niko Takahashi

Yoshitomi Group

Likes received: 64

#3 - 2011-09-21 15:27:10 UTC

CapnBrannigan wrote:

I have always wondered.

Why is the scorpion the only Tech 1 non-Faction or Pirate Battle ship that has Ewar bonuses.

Doesn't seem balanced, yea force the other races to invest into very expensive faction/pirate BS just so they can get their Logistics filled in the BS role...

Interesting..

Possible good explanations?

It is a trade off for the overal crappiness of the rokh and limited pvp applications of Raven.

Noisrevbus

Likes received: 488

#4 - 2011-09-21 17:32:50 UTC | Edited by: Noisrevbus

Gypsio III wrote:

just as good mobility is a Minmatar theme, and Gallente have, erm....

... (more) Drones.

It just doesn't scale very well to the BS-class, since 125m3 worth of bandwidth is capped.

Ranis, drones.
Keres, Catalyst, Eris, Thorax, Deimos, you get the picture.

Most non-droneboats still have an advantageous drone- bay or bandwidth if they are Gallente. It's a racial nische, and in many classes a balancing factor to the extreme ranges of hybrids. I've mentioned the issue when scaled to BS before.

Another reason worth mentioning to the OP is "cake and eating it", the functionality of ECM limit you to an extreme that doesn't allow you to reap inherent benefits or average stats of a typical class. You have to compromise both average damage and tank to even be remotely useful in your choice role. Neuts on an Amarr BS or webs on a Minmatar BS would not have such limitations and are as such reserved to pirate faction BS.

Wether you consider it too powerful or not, ECM is still the only EW-system where it's not uncommon that you devote up to 10 slots to focus on your role.

Ryuce

Likes received: 48

#5 - 2011-09-23 06:53:10 UTC | Edited by: Ryuce

Niko Takahashi wrote:

It is a trade off for the overal crappiness of the rokh and limited pvp applications of Raven.

If only the world was that simple... However a few years back the torp. Raven was actually a viable PVP ship.

Regarding Gypsio's comment on Gallente; they have drones, which their tier I BS represents.

It would however be interesting to hear why Caldari is the only Empire faction with an E-war battleship.


Ryuce Likes received: 48	#6 - 2011-09-23 06:53:37 UTC \| Edited by: Ryuce DP I fail.

NoNah

Hyper-Nova

Likes received: 77

#7 - 2011-09-23 07:13:32 UTC

It's really quite simple, think back to the start of eve when lore was pretty much as important as balance. At this point it makes perfect sense that Caldari should have an ewar BS. That gallente should have a dronecentric bs, That the amarr should have an all out gank/tank nothing-fancy-about-it BS and that minmatar should have one with some missiles here, a turret or five down there and then a ton of drones... oh and lets make it reasonably fast.

Then fast forward a decade or so, and look a again. All the four above mentioned ships are still used. If we were to implement an Ewar ship for any of the other three they would of course be using the racial ewar. You'd have a tracking disrupting amarr bs, a target painting minmatar and dampening gallente one. 2 of those(TD/SD) are mainly for smaller ships surviving better versus larger(For battleships this means there is nothing they would be vital for(no caps are designed to be dangerous to bs, and those that are won't get hurt by neither TD's nor damps)), this leaves the TP ship of minmatar.

Now take a look at the current TP-bonused ships, Vigil, Hyena, Bellicose, Rapier, Huginn. I can can count the number of times I've seen either of these ships being fitted around the TP-bonus rather than one of their other attributes - typically their webs for the t2. I can't for the life of me think a BS would be any better in those regards.

The one question I would however be able to ask, is why the Widow is the only ewar-black ops, as the use is a little different and a point/damp sin actually could be viable, and even a TP/web phoon could be. Redeemer is already often neut-focused.

Also keep in mind it's been CCP's designpolicy to keep the ships tiered and balanced in number of ships per race(Rarities not included)

The Scope Gallente Federation 9
Joss56 The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 9	#8 - 2011-09-23 12:55:32 UTC Ryuce wrote: Regarding Gypsio's comment on Gallente; they have drones, which their tier I BS represents Of course every one knows the ONLY BS's in the game using drones are Gallente, why do you even mention it? Ho wait...

Dorian Wylde

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 503

#9 - 2011-09-23 15:17:59 UTC

Joss56 wrote:

Ryuce wrote:

Regarding Gypsio's comment on Gallente; they have drones, which their tier I BS represents

Of course every one knows the ONLY BS's in the game using drones are Gallente, why do you even mention it?

Ho wait...

They're the only one with a drone bonus, and a large enough drone bay for plenty of reserves. Other battleships use light drones to defend against frigates, gallente use drones as a primary weapon.

They also get the dedicated split weapons system between drones and hybrids.

9
Jacob Stov Likes received: 9	#10 - 2011-09-23 18:53:34 UTC I agree with the OP. Why do we have this crappy EW bonus on the Scorp ? The blackbird hulls do it better. Give me shield resistance and rof bonus instead. Oh and 6 launchers of course. In short: Navy Scorp -30% HP. Thank you.