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Viability of Deep Space Transport Ships?
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Sethimothy
Chicken Manufacturing
#1 - 2012-03-14 13:26:06 UTC
As an individual who finds himself doing more hauling than even he would like sometimes, I recently considered picking up a deep space transport [by which I refer to the Impel, Bustard, Occator, and Mastodon] to supplement my Blockade Runner. They hold a lot, and they should be hard to shoot down and they have built in resistance to the first person who tries to jam their warp core. Hot damn!

But in this, I'm not terribly certain I should actually get one for it's claimed use as a low sec travel ship. They look like they take forever to align, and they look easy to lock on to, which suggests to me the moment they came out of cloak at any gate camp they'd be screwed.

An honest example of what I'm talking about: I'm flying my Viator, and I pop into Amamake because I figure I'll take the bait on a courier package set up by a pirate. Why the hell not, I'm out here anyways on Industrial business, and the 100,000 ISK reward for moving whatever is in that crate is easy money and I have the 80 million to spare in collateral. But something goes wrong on the way in, and I'm spotted. Mostly that god damned "You failed to jump because you are cloaked" error I get for whatever reason. So in Amamake, I take a look at the situation... dozens of ship wrecks. There's at least one group out there, they know who they are, who know what they are doing and are absolutely amazing. They also haven't got me yet. But that may change soon, because there's just over a half dozen reds that I can see. I "jump to stargate" which starts me to align, and then hit my cloak... but something goes even worse. One of the damn ships in this camp was able to target me. I must have spawned too close to a wreck! I get the notification that some pilot has begun to scramble warp me. I can feel that feeling, the one where I'm about to lose ~300M between a ship and collateral, all over my own stupidty. But then, a god damned miracle happens. Warp drive? Activated. Lock broken, cloak up, it's the heart of a champion. I live to fly another day.

I have significant doubts that a ship that can't align quickly could survive such a situation, no matter how good its armor and resists are. I also am not certain that the warp core strength bonus is all that great, as all it takes to override it is another tackler.

But I am not very good at this game, and always looking to understand the game better and improve myself. Also, the Amamake gate camp example is probably at the most extreme edge of anything I personally deal with, but if I'm going to drop that kind of cash on a ship it damn well better be able to handle the extreme end of what I deal with!

Do you feel that Deep Space Transports are particularly worth their weight in ISK? Anything I'm missing with them?
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#2 - 2012-03-14 13:33:37 UTC
That warp core strength thing is fairly pointless, any scram will tie you down, and any determined gate camp will have a bubble/scripted hictor.

There slow, have some EHP, not that that will make any kind of difference and cant cloak, stick to the blockade runner IMO, it will server you far better.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#3 - 2012-03-14 13:47:20 UTC
Stick with the Blockade Runner.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-14 13:54:16 UTC
I totally agree that the deep space transports are near totally worthless in terms of successfully moving cargo around. You would almost always be better served using a freighter/orca in empire, or a carrier/jump freighter outside it.

The amount of cargo that you can carry is moot when you are an incredibly easy target. Blockade runners are great because you have a pretty solid chance of getting where you want to get, even through gate camps, bubbles, whatever, assuming you use tactical and such.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-14 13:55:52 UTC
You could always fit WCS on your Blockade Runner.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#6 - 2012-03-14 14:39:15 UTC
Darthewok wrote:
You could always fit WCS on your Blockade Runner.


You could. But then that means the carghold is no better than a BR which would make the point of a DST moot. Perhaps in an industry expansion, CCP could redo the concept of DST,

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
#7 - 2012-03-14 14:46:43 UTC
Since when did the MWD + cloak trick not work anymore? If you are good at it you can still move stuff with near impunity in a DST. Camps with decloaking intys might still get you or any camp large enough to generate enough stuff around the gate to keep you from cloaking.

Amamake is a very dead system and very safe to travel through. Much like Aunenen, Tama and Rancer.

http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2012-03-14 14:59:57 UTC
Darthewok wrote:
You could always fit WCS on your Blockade Runner.


Whilst I agree that this is sensible, the better-organsied gate camps in lo-sec use remote-sensorboosted HICs.

Better to rely on some tactics and forethough (eg: choose an alternate route, run a decoy through on an alt (Ity V + DCU + meta bulkheads full of trash tradegoods) for them to shoot at while you slink through, etc)

That said, I usually fit my "fast" Viator with 2 WCS, a Nano II and 2x T2 Low Friction Nozzle Joints.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-03-14 15:39:44 UTC
If you are running cheap bulk stuff either in empire or null, a blockade runner is handy as hell.....not as good as a carrier or JF obviously.....

...but you don't have to pay fuel to go 6 jumps either.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-03-14 15:57:12 UTC
I jump regularly between WH space and highsec with a DST and its great, means no solo tackler can point me and if its really bad i can just jump back to highsec because my ehp lets me survive for more then 3 seconds. Also a Occator can take over 35k m3 with t1 rigs. MWD trick keeps the align down.
Trask II
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-14 16:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Trask II
Deen Wispa wrote:
Darthewok wrote:
You could always fit WCS on your Blockade Runner.


You could. But then that means the carghold is no better than a BR which would make the point of a DST moot. Perhaps in an industry expansion, CCP could redo the concept of DST,


That's not true. The cargohold on my Bustard without expanders is as large as my Crane with a full rack of them. There's so many options for fitting the ship it's ridiculous. I change my fit depending on the situation. It makes a great bait ship, too.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-14 17:27:23 UTC
When properly tanked they make decent AFK haulers in highsec too!
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-14 17:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Pheusia wrote:
Viator with 2 WCS, a Nano II and 2x T2 Low Friction Nozzle Joints.

Sounds about right.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Billy Endashi
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-03-15 10:59:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Billy Endashi
they carry a lot, they have decent ehp & built-in stabs. on the down side, they are REALLY slow on the gate. you will need a scout if you're going into low/null. compare it with the itty v, not the blockade runners, they are completely different.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#15 - 2012-03-15 20:11:46 UTC
I use an Impel for highsec runs with valuable cargo larger then 10000m3. Half nano, half expanders, hits 25000 and align isn't too bad as long as you are not an autopilot junkie. I would never take it into lowsec. It would die.

Overhaul Dscan!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-03-15 20:38:45 UTC
confirming that DSTs are inferior ships to anything else
I have an impel, but only because it can hold more then an bestower
GreenSeed
#17 - 2012-03-15 20:59:47 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
confirming that DSTs are inferior ships to anything else
I have an impel, but only because it can hold more then an bestower

same here, i bought a few occators because they look nice and were dirt cheap on contracts.

i have around 5 of them and they are as pointless as a ship as the active tank bonus they have on them.

come to think about it... a wouldnt a pointless bonus on a poinless ship be even more pointless?


*stares at the horizon in quiet contemplation*
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#18 - 2012-03-15 21:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Occator (and all DSTs) can be tanked like bosses to survive suicide ganks, and make excellent hisec haulers. They are good for low/null too, but a scout is recommended. They can only naturally block one scram (or two points), so any more than that and they're tied down. They are a bit small for how expensive/slow they are, so could probably use a buff to their cargo.

Viator (and all BRs) don't give a single **** about most gate camps. They have AF-like speed and agility, and can bust a ton of gate camps by just using Cloak+MWD trick. They're not very big, so they can't be used to haul large amounts of things, but for routine small supply ops in low/null they are perfect, even without a scout.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)