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Belt Ratting stealth nerf? chaining stealth nerf? mistake by ccp?

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Raptor217
Nomadic Spacial Bunnies Support Division
#61 - 2012-03-14 06:06:11 UTC
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.

I could belt rat and make 60m/hour with a chained belt while highsec guys could make 120m/hour in incursions. I feel like CCP is shooting themselves in the foot here.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#62 - 2012-03-14 06:16:03 UTC
Raptor217 wrote:
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.

I could belt rat and make 60m/hour with a chained belt while highsec guys could make 120m/hour in incursions. I feel like CCP is shooting themselves in the foot here.


Maybe they plan on iterating in another ten years.

In the meantime, try running anomalies. I hear they have lots of battleships in them, too!

PS Does anybody else remember when they changed rats with (cold war?)? They basically had an early model of the Sleeper AI "ready for testing" on the live server and applied it to rats throughout New Eden. Obviously this vastly predated WH's.

They repealed it in a few weeks, inevitably realizing it was totally borked.

Maybe that will happen here? Hard telling.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#63 - 2012-03-14 07:25:55 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Oh boy, you belt ratters get to relearn how to game the game again! Enjoy! You've really got to look at this with a positive attitude. The game being so old has been getting kinda blah since everything is documented. Now you get to re-;learn it all over again and be real Eve pioneers. Eve the game that keeps on giving! *sarcasm off*



More like, the botters need to reprogram.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2012-03-14 07:35:19 UTC
lol null pve wasn't bleeding enough guys into just training incursion alts already
Sade Onyx
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-03-14 09:21:04 UTC
Raptor217 wrote:
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.


Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners.

Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears.
Stabs McShiv
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-03-14 09:37:38 UTC
That AI was awesome now that they have got it working for sleepers and sansha they should roll it out to all the rats plus seriously upgrade the abilitys of faction spawns make them "mini officers" they are weaker them most of the normal rats at the moment.

On topic great change ccp

+1
Laura Dexx
Now Look What You've Made Me Do
#67 - 2012-03-14 09:56:59 UTC
Bounties 32B
Incursions 8B

So how many people were receiving bounties, and how many people were doing incursions? You'll see the per person ratio of Incursions is two to three times as high as your average belt, mission or anomaly runner's average income. These numbers are arbitrary if they do not include per-person ratios.
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-03-14 10:21:54 UTC
To be honest, this seems to be a pretty good change if you look at medium-short term isk generation. Not every system starts perfectly chained, and the rats being dumped in a group seems to evenly distributed, not weighted towards lower bounty within a group. Which means that EVERY triple battleship spawn (when they come back they are still battleships!) is potentially valuable now, and there's less lead time to get a system to a reasonable chaining. Sure, if you're ratting a system for 10-12 hours you might lose out, but if you're doing that you're either a bot or need to get out.

Yeah, you could make 20-25m a tick with a chained belt - but how many 5-10 ticks did it take to get the system chained? Now you start at 15-20 and just keep on ticking.

(Also, no more triple jamming Gurista Battleship/Cruiser spawns.)
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-03-14 10:38:08 UTC
... So... either no one belt rats in which case it only effects botters... Or ... people do belt rat and this stops the supposed isk facet... why are people complaining?

also vairiable content O_O in my eve!!! its been a long time coming :D

No Worries
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#70 - 2012-03-14 10:51:33 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
actually i like this, i hear this works for missions too? so now i wont know by memory what spawns in a mission? O_O

kudos to CCP for making something more dynamic and less static.


That is fine but you do realize that unless they made the MAX spawn for missions the same or lower than it was before people are going to lose ships. And not in a good way.

Because after the Drake (Which nearly or really melts in some missions) You have to go up to some really expensive stuff to tank. No problem for a bot for for the average newer player it could be disaster to the point of saying "Frak it I'm out"

Not saying dynamic is bad. But it does have cons.

I would MUCH rather have less incoming DPS and more variation in their tanking so that picking ammo is no longer so easy.


That has to be why today instead of the usual flood of insta-perma-jam craptastic rats I got just 2. Seems good to me.

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Caldari Citizen20110707
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-03-14 11:16:05 UTC
this is alloy nerf also, in drone region ppl chained only high end alloy dropping battleships. This was major issue with high end ores. now its nerfed.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-03-14 11:16:46 UTC
This happens in missions as well? So we now have a slight chance there may be a faction spawn in one? =D
Snatcha Pursia
EVE Corporation 98582134
#73 - 2012-03-14 11:28:57 UTC
Someone said on first page you need to adapt in eve. I would like to see an eve free of most bots be they mining, belts or trade. Having bots makes professions, some of them, obsolete. And nerf the shite out of drone drops along with mining bots so mining once again becomes somewhat profitable.

Adapting from my pov would be paying for a bot and do it myself which is something I'm really considering as, trough my professions, I am directly affected by the 3 types of bots mentioned above.

One thing is not mentioned enough is trade bots. Good ones with large enough wallets, and phat wallets become phaht soon enuf if you're botting, can leach out somewhere between 3-5b a day in pure profits - that is ISK of many bears anyone who knows something about anything can tell you that.

I mean, really, come on, give control of things that REALLY keep eve running back to the players. CCP is saying they have huge campaigns of banning bots, how is it then possible 5 mins since i start playing the markets i spot 5+ of them?

I mission for standings on 4 accounts at once and some wise guy can just plug his butthole with his thumb and let bots do their stuff and get plenty isk with no hassle.

Atm I just feel I single play since automation is such a big deal nowadays. Stop ignoring the big pink elephant in the room CCP, PLEASE!!!


No, really PLEASE
Caliban Zateki
Zateki Alliance
#74 - 2012-03-14 11:44:15 UTC
To all the people going incursions aren't the problem it's belt ratting I'm calling shenanigans. I recently went from belt ratting in null to running incursions. When I ratted if I had 600mil in my wallet it was a big deal. Now that I run incursions if I have less than a Bill I get worried that I'm poor.

Furthermore to emphasize the difference between Highsec incursions and Low sec incursions, I recently placed third in a low sec incursion with a whoping 180k lp payed out. When I found out Highsec incursion runners in the top ten walk away with 900k+ I was speechless. Please continue trying to say that Highsec incursions aren't the biggest isk faucet in the game. You want to decrease inflation nerf high sec incursions more.

That being said I am still 100% okay with this change because it's a huge nerf to botters and a slight buff to miners which is still a step in the right direction. Just don't try to say that incursion runners aren't the cause of the 500mil plex market mmmkay.

on a side note as a former mission runner I am glad they have made them less static because before it was god awful boring running missions. Hopefully this spices things up a bit.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#75 - 2012-03-14 12:15:43 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
Why is belt ratting dead? Just kill all the spawns now and hope for a faction spawn, AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED. Jesus, damn nullbears.


I could never understand the foaming-at-the-mouth craziness that erupted if I dared disrupt people's chains. This one time, at band camp, I blew up two destroyers and was awarded with an officer spawn. That officer dropped a couple of Dread Guristas items which handily padded my pocket.




Yes, disrupting people's chaining sessions is very good fun to be had - I've had a couple of threats over popping a few Core Barons where I shouldn't have been. It brought a tear to my eyes :)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Greg Valanti
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-03-14 12:53:29 UTC
Caliban Zateki wrote:
To all the people going incursions aren't the problem it's belt ratting I'm calling shenanigans. I recently went from belt ratting in null to running incursions. When I ratted if I had 600mil in my wallet it was a big deal. Now that I run incursions if I have less than a Bill I get worried that I'm poor.

Furthermore to emphasize the difference between Highsec incursions and Low sec incursions, I recently placed third in a low sec incursion with a whoping 180k lp payed out. When I found out Highsec incursion runners in the top ten walk away with 900k+ I was speechless. Please continue trying to say that Highsec incursions aren't the biggest isk faucet in the game. You want to decrease inflation nerf high sec incursions more.

That being said I am still 100% okay with this change because it's a huge nerf to botters and a slight buff to miners which is still a step in the right direction. Just don't try to say that incursion runners aren't the cause of the 500mil plex market mmmkay.

on a side note as a former mission runner I am glad they have made them less static because before it was god awful boring running missions. Hopefully this spices things up a bit.


The figures speak for themselves - 32B isk from ratting/bounties vs. 8B from incursions. The difference is you don't have bots running incursions 23.5/7. The change is a disincentive for player ratters, I agree. But it should help stop the rapid inflation that would make it impossible for average players to keep pace.
Resivan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2012-03-14 13:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Resivan
The numbers CCP Diagoras has published show that cash enters from incursions is a fraction of what comes from bounties. Last I looked, there was no option to convert LP directly into isk and most items from the LP store actually require an isk payment. So it doesn't matter how many LP hisec incursions give out. That part of the payment is going to be an isk sink if anything.

Decreased predictability, anywhere in the game, makes it harder to bot. Try actually playing the game.
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-03-14 13:14:39 UTC
I think this change is pointless.

Belt ratting is a means to the new players make isk at a reasonable rate. Now this players are at a loss, having to put more time in ratting.

Bots are bots, they will have less income but still, its an afk activity and 1 isk earned is better than none. It will continue, a decrease on a lot of isk is still a lot of isk, wich I am sure will continue to keep those that Bot fat.



[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
evereplicant
Doomheim
#79 - 2012-03-14 13:32:27 UTC
CCP Bettik wrote:
Yes I can confirm this has changed. It totally got missed in the patch notes and I will try to remedy that now.

We were refactoring how npc‘s through groups spawned and this was one small fix on that. So now you are not guaranteed to get always the same type of npc of the same size in the group. This applies to missions and belt rats.





So quite a significant change 'accidently got totally missed off the patch notes' really CCP Bettik? Or was you hoping no one would notice :)
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#80 - 2012-03-14 13:41:30 UTC
Raptor217 wrote:
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.

I could belt rat and make 60m/hour with a chained belt while highsec guys could make 120m/hour in incursions. I feel like CCP is shooting themselves in the foot here.


I'm hoping this is a precursor to variable incursion spawns. That could actually work to stem the isk faucet a bit as fleets and fittings wouldn't be quite so cookie-cutter as they are now.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.